MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Gardenista]

Has this article been posted...

Bouchard was asked Friday about Throne’s comments.

“Certainly, after the second encounter in the morning, I believe it was more than appropriate and necessary (to contact law enforcement), based on the content of what was seen on the second day,” Bouchard said. “Clearly, I believe that that would have been appropriate, and I also know that our school resource officer would have asked him to be removed from school while that counseling or whatever was ordered by the school takes place.”

Bouchard said the resource officer would have escorted Crumbley from the school and made sure he didn’t have any weapons on him.

Sheriff believes Oxford High School should have told police about suspect’s behavior before shooting

Glad to hear this. I hope there are consequences for the school too.

 

[dkryder]

i don't understand how this kid can be "designing a video game" <modsnip> i know some things about designing video games and in my experience being excellent in math skills is an underlying minimal requirement so i cant understand the parents or school buying that "designing a video game". all of them bought into this kids fantasy on some level but the school rep gave the parents the decision. so in my head the ball goes to the parents because they reportedly walked out on the kid and the school having made the decision and with that came the responsibility , pretty much 100% of the responsibility. MOO. hopefully the school has audio/video of the meeting so at some point we may know the facts of that meeting.

 

[Only4Justice]

I get that you want to defend this (can't type what I want to call him) and his parents. Imo, all of them are narcissist bullies. Me, me, me. I just can't with these people. Imo. Ethan was beyond help a long time ago. I do not care that he gets help. I want him to be locked up for life. I hope as many charges are thrown at them as possible. Stack and stack those charges.

Now the people, Imo, that should get our first concern are the dead children, their families, and the over 1000 children that were terrorized.

Good riddance to Ethan and his parents.

Moo.

Thank you! I’m pretty confident Ethan will never be out of prison.

not sure if the charges against his parents will stick. I hope so

 

[Boxer]

Wow!

This is in response to the time line on post 425 by @Kristin Esq. I lost the quote box.

Not minimizing the behavior of the shooter or his parents, but the school was in the wrong here, IMO, independently of others.

1st, CPS is not a punishment, or an “or else,” tool to control parents. Either the school suspects medical neglect at this time, or it doesn’t.

And either CPS will find that the parents have been neglectful, or not. CPS can only take the info it is given, generally from the school and the parents. The parents do not have to consent to interviews, although it works with family court, not punitive judicial court, and the family court system has the ability to help families. So it is not a situation where the parents have nothing to gain by cooperating, depending on the circumstances.

The parents are far less likely to be forthcoming to CPS, or allow interviews at all, if the agency was introduced like that! The school was inappropriately using CPS; CPS is not the school’s enforcement team. The school was interfering with CPS’s ability to work with the family.

All the school can learn from CPS is if CPS found neglect on their particular allegation or not. CPS is also not the school’s PI.

Personally, I would have told the parents after they declined to follow up themselves that I would like parental consent to get at least a psychological assessment done by the school, to make sure their son is not in pain.

If they declined that I would explain that I plan to immediately call in a CPS report, or even consider calling it in with them in the room, if the interview were not too contentious. I would explain that I don’t feel comfortable that the child is safe and not in pain, given the drawing, and especially since the parents are not getting him psychologically assessed.

I would explain that CPS is going to want to make sure the child is safe, they are not a punitive agency. That it could be a helpful agency, possibly with ideas the school, the child and the parents haven’t thought of- and recommend that the parents and child are honest and make use of the investigation to meet their needs. I would re-iterate that I am not trying to stress out the kid or the parents, but just trying to make sure he is okay.

In the meantime, the superintendent was off base when he said he couldn’t send the kid home against the parents wishes since he didn’t have any prior disciplinary issues. At that point, he hadn’t done anything wrong, still. The superintendent kind of confirms that they were going for an “informal suspension” rather than saying your kiddo is displaying symptoms that need to be checked out. If the kid were physically ill, and the parents would not bring him home, they would probably isolate him in a nurses office. They should have done the same for this explicit expression of pain by the kid, although maybe it would be more appropriate to supervise him non punitively elsewhere, not with a school nurse. This was an acute non-disciplinary issue. WTF does his disciplinary record, spotless, atrocious, or anything in between have to do with anything?


IMO. MOO.

MOO it's too much calculation to ask school personnel to negotiate that many factors.
Inapproriate behavior go home, but parents won't take you. Now a minor is in your custody that needs to go off campus.

Parents gave him a gun for Christmas, now they are called in because he is at school 4 days later looking up ammo and drawing terrorizing dead by gun pictures.

Far far away from Algebra 3.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Wow!

This is in response to the time line on post 425 by @Kristin Esq. I lost the quote box.

Not minimizing the behavior of the shooter or his parents, but the school was in the wrong here, IMO, independently of others.

1st, CPS is not a punishment, or an “or else,” tool to control parents. Either the school suspects medical neglect at this time, or it doesn’t.

And either CPS will find that the parents have been neglectful, or not. CPS can only take the info it is given, generally from the school and the parents. The parents do not have to consent to interviews, although it works with family court, not punitive judicial court, and the family court system has the ability to help families. So it is not a situation where the parents have nothing to gain by cooperating, depending on the circumstances.

The parents are far less likely to be forthcoming to CPS, or allow interviews at all, if the agency was introduced like that! The school was inappropriately using CPS; CPS is not the school’s enforcement team. The school was interfering with CPS’s ability to work with the family.

All the school can learn from CPS is if CPS found neglect on their particular allegation or not. CPS is also not the school’s PI.

Personally, I would have told the parents after they declined to follow up themselves that I would like parental consent to get at least a psychological assessment done by the school, to make sure their son is not in pain.

If they declined that I would explain that I plan to immediately call in a CPS report, or even consider calling it in with them in the room, if the interview were not too contentious. I would explain that I don’t feel comfortable that the child is safe and not in pain, given the drawing, and especially since the parents are not getting him psychologically assessed.

I would explain that CPS is going to want to make sure the child is safe, they are not a punitive agency. That it could be a helpful agency, possibly with ideas the school, the child and the parents haven’t thought of- and recommend that the parents and child are honest and make use of the investigation to meet their needs. I would re-iterate that I am not trying to stress out the kid or the parents, but just trying to make sure he is okay.

In the meantime, the superintendent was off base when he said he couldn’t send the kid home against the parents wishes since he didn’t have any prior disciplinary issues. At that point, he hadn’t done anything wrong, still. The superintendent kind of confirms that they were going for an “informal suspension” rather than saying your kiddo is displaying symptoms that need to be checked out. If the kid were physically ill, and the parents would not bring him home, they would probably isolate him in a nurses office. They should have done the same for this explicit expression of pain by the kid, although maybe it would be more appropriate to supervise him non punitively elsewhere, not with a school nurse. This was an acute non-disciplinary issue. WTF does his disciplinary record, spotless, atrocious, or anything in between have to do with anything?


IMO. MOO.

Well stated and 100% agree

 

[beth272]

Has it been posted in MSM that the SRO was actually not on the school campus the day of the shooting?? I'm seeing it posted other places but not sure if it is accurate... anyone seen anything about this?

 

[esayer]

Although I understand that the ex-wife's statement fits nicely into the desired belief that the parents are responsible for the actions of their 15 year old son, what I hear in the statement is an ex-wife who is angry about the amount of child support she was allowed to receive, angry that child support was unpaid, and not happy about her ex-husband's wife.

I don't think anything she said has anything to do with the shootings. Realistically, a man who had three children with three different women did not raise three children to shoot children at school. One of the three children clearly has psychological problems that were not addressed by the school, the police, or the parents.

The drawing was clearly a cry for help, very likely help for something that was happening in the school. The school's decision to have him removed from the school, rather than address what happened in the school to trigger the psychological problems, was perhaps the straw that broke the camel's back.



If the child shooter was bullied at school and no one did anything to help, how is telling the upset child to leave the school helping? That's blaming the victim.

"Investigators said they are still trying to determine a motive for the deadly shooting because the suspect isn’t speaking to them. However, some classmates have said Crumbley was bullied, according to the Detroit Free Press."
​

Michigan school shooting suspect identified as Ethan Crumbley

" a man who had three children with three different women" Sounds like a real upstanding citizen to me...obviously the ex is correct about her ex.

 

[LMDlong]

News articles have stated the school was not aware of the new gun purchased Black Friday . But didn’t EC say that he and his family shoot together? Another red flag to go with the search for ammo and the drawing .

 

[esayer]

I do not think highly of the Crumbleys (see my past posts in this thread), and I may be gullible, but I do kind of believe that the “fugitives on the run” thing may have been a miscommunication. They could have been told their lawyers were taking care of the appoint for turning themselves in and did not know about this 4pm arraignment (because their phones were off? Because they thought all calls would go to their lawyers?). I believe the lawyers assumed that they would be informed. I believe they weren’t. Now parts are still sketchy… going out of contact was sketchy if true. But I’d be open minded to hear more.

I mean, were the Crumbleys reached about being required to show up at 4pm?

What time was the ATM retrieval and what time did notice to appear go through? Did they go to the bank in Rochester Hills to get the money for the retainer, so that the lawyers could put in NTA? And then go back to their hide out awaiting word on this appointment to turn themselves in? I’m no legal expert, welcome other thoughts.

No way. Why were they in an art studio at 1:30am? In their same clothes?

 

[LMDlong]

IMO the school counselor should step down. The teacher did his job reporting the incidents.

 

[LMDlong]

No way. Why were they in an art studio at 1:30am? In their same clothes?

The father has a past of running from his duties.

 

[esayer]

They didn't give him a gun. They purchased a gift for Christmas, and it sounds like his mother intended to supervise him using the gun.

...Where do you get that? Source the mom ever intended to supervise him?

 

[LMDlong]

Has it been posted in MSM that the SRO was actually not on the school campus the day of the shooting?? I'm seeing it posted other places but not sure if it is accurate... anyone seen anything about this?

Not me . And I was searching to see if they had an SRO.

 

[esayer]

What is the evidence that someone gave control of the gun to the child?

I understand that parents buy guns for their children, but the gun licence is in the parent's name. The child uses the gun under supervision to practice handling and aim. Isn't that how it works?

Isn't that what happened here? One of the parents bought the gun as a gift for the son, but the son did not have permission to put the gun in his back pocket or take the gun out of the home. He practiced with his mother.

It has to be proven that the gun was unlawfully stored. How was the gun stored?

"While Michigan has criminal laws in place that could be applied if a parent were to negligently allow their child to access their firearm, there is no law specifically mandating they lock their guns away and separate the weapons from the ammunition.

According to Michigan state police: “You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored. As such, a trigger lock, gun case or other device designed to prevent unauthorized access to a firearm is strongly recommended.”
​

Stricter gun laws? The question looms over Michigan politics in wake of deadly school shooting

Evidence is 4 dead kids.

 

[klhfromtroymi]

There is no indication Ethan threw a deer head off the school roof. Not related.

My two children attend Oxford High School and were barricaded in classrooms on Tuesday. Thankfully, they were physically unharmed and did not hear the shots nor see any of the resulting victims, etc. We are all still in shock and mourning the loss of those four precious lives. Our close-knit community has been rocked to its core.

My son actually knows the student that perpetrated the deer head incident, which so surprised and upset my son at the time it occurred. Tuesday’s shooter was NOT involved in that at all.

However, as the weeks have progressed this semester both of my kids had commented that there was just a very negative vibe at the school, with several odd incidents.

The two Thursday evenings prior to Thanksgiving they told us that there were rumors circulating about a shooting that would begin the next day at 12:50pm (the start of passing time before 5th hour). My husband and I said “what shooter would warn the school so specifically if maximum harm is the intention,” and sent them off to school. Personally, I think the shooter began at 12:50 because that would have been the first time after his parents refused to bring him home that all lunches would be finished and the hallways most crowded. I do not think the earlier threats were related to the shooter. However, only time will tell.

The vigil held here Friday night was terrifying. It was the first time my son left the house and to have hundreds of people screaming and running toward us - knowing the shooter’s parents were still at large and the Waukesha tragedy still fresh - left my kids traumatized once again. There were no speakers for the majority of us so we could not hear the pleas for calm. When we saw that mass of humanity coming at us the fear of being trampled was inescapable. These OHS students who three days earlier hunkered down in classrooms had that same instinct as the panic erupted. These kids, including my daughter, were crying so hard. It was heartbreaking! Thank goodness nobody was seriously injured but having lived through the pressing of people against us and into walls of buildings, seeing young children on the ground being protected by their moms, hearing people calling out for their children/friends, and seeing the empty shoes littering the street, it’s as if the nightmare keeps going on.

 

[esayer]

He's a child in the eyes of the school, an adult in the eyes of the law. A drawing he made of the shooting was reported by a teacher and so little was done by school authorities.

It's unfortunate that more was not done, when so much was known.

"Undersheriff Mike McCabe said earlier that authorities were aware of allegations circulating on social media that there had been threats of a shooting at the roughly 1,700-student school before Tuesday's attack ..."
​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/michigan-school-shooting-1.6268331

At age 15, the question of whether he can be rehabilitated matters. If the goal is to be punitive, to treat him as a throw away person, that's harsh.

He murdered 4 kids. He needs LWOP. He took away other people's chance at life so he should be denied that. IMO

 

[beth272]

IMO the school counselor should step down. The teacher did his job reporting the incidents.

100% agree

 

[esayer]

Some detailed insight into Jennifer Crumbley, in her own words.

"Dear Mr. Trump...."
Nov 11 2016
[via Archive.org]
Site Title
(Her blog, as referenced by her husband's FB post in the Daily Beast article linked below)

School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

Braindead woman IMO

 

[passionflower]

How old are the parents? Seem like they are immature about raising their son. Keeping jobs? Responsibility? Do they have much education?

 

[Cool Cats]

IMHO, adhering to the letter of the Michigan law for securing a weapon should be thought of as the minimum standard for safety in a home with children - not as an example of good practice. On many topics ‘not breaking the law’ is far from synonymous with ‘appropriate parenting’.

It’s pretty tough for me to imagine a situation in which blameless/clueless parents manage all of the following in the same ~two week period:
+ Purchase a 9mm handgun which is intended to be used by their son
+ Respond with “lol don’t get caught” in relation to issues at school in relation to searching ammo
+ Choose to believe “video game design” or other excuses for violent imagery / statements
+ Not take the school’s strong recommendation to pull their son from class
+ Not choose to mention that their son has access to a gun when the school raises issues that are linked to weapons
+ Text “don’t do it” (vs. “are you safe?”) in response to a school shooting at their son’s school
+ Turn phones off, withdraw $4k and head to Detroit to hide when news of their own legal trouble becomes known

In my opinion, there is considerably more (electronic?) evidence of the Crumbley parents’ potential involvement / negligence that is driving the charges.

Quote:
"In my opinion, there is considerably more (electronic?) evidence of the Crumbley parents’ potential involvement / negligence that is driving the charges."

Yes.

Prosecutor Karen McDonald said the shooting was premeditated, based on a “mountain of digital evidence” against Ethan Crumbley.

During the arraignment, Karen D. McDonald, the Oakland County prosecutor, said that there was overwhelming evidence that would show that Mr. and Ms. Crumbley should have known that their son was a danger to his school.