GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[Izzylizzy]

Everybody's posts have been great.
It's been a good thread, albeit a terribly tragic case. Too many deaths and critically injured people

I've never tried a Xanax so IDK how sleepy you'd be even if you were a heavy user.
I just get the vibe from Jennifer's testimony that she'll exaggerate if nobody can prove otherwise.

I've been gifted a few Xanax over the years and they're like taking 25 mgs of a Valium or diazepam.
I went to sleep so that's all I know.
They're obvioulsy addictive and are also used to come down from adderall (speed).
Plus JC could have mixed in alcohol and when the house was searched there was evidence of pot growing in the basement.

Who knows what her cocktail of choice was?

 

[Cool Cats]

I think she can’t say she wished she had done things differently like taking him home that day because that may instill acknowledgment of responsibility/culpability in the mind of the jurors. I think something like “of course in hindsight as a parent, I wish I could go back and do things differently if it would change the outcome” something like that…..

JMO

JC clearly states that she wishes she had taken him home in the police interrogation. This negates her stance that she "Wouldn't do anything different."

If the prosecution doesn't bring this up I would be surprised. Unless the judge won't let them use that police video footage.

2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

LE tends to go with "Better to have too much than too little."

I think an important factor in this show of force is because of the guns. Through the search LE saw that there were multiple guns in the house. So the parents could have been armed and could have barricaded themselves somewhere ending with a shoot out. I mean, LE had to be ready for this scenario, among others.

It was too early in the investigation for LE to know if the parents had anything to do with the shooting.

2 Cents

Exactly.
For LE to have acted differently would have been dangerously naive.

 

[Weki]

LE tends to go with "Better to have too much than too little."

I think an important factor in this show of force is because of the guns. Through the search LE saw that there were multiple guns in the house. So the parents could have been armed and could have barricaded themselves somewhere ending with a shoot out. I mean, LE had to be ready for this scenario, among others.

It was too early in the investigation for LE to know if the parents had anything to do with the shooting.

2 Cents

Excellent point! LE had seen all the guns at the home prior to this arrest - I wasn’t factoring that in.

 

[Izzylizzy]

JC clearly states that she wishes she had taken him home in the police interrogation. This negates her stance that she "Wouldn't do anything different."

If the prosecution doesn't bring this up I would be surprised. Unless the judge won't let them use that police video footage.

2 Cents

The footage is already in evidence so I don't think the judge can do zilch even if she wanted to.
McDonald and Kaest are very sharp so along with their staff that sits behind them the odds are in their favor that someone would have caught that.

 

[Cool Cats]

The footage is already in evidence so I don't think the judge can do zilch even if she wanted to.
McDonald and Kaest are very sharp so along with their staff that sits behind them the odds are in their favor that someone would have caught that.

Yes! They would have caught it and with that footage in evidence they can use the Crumbley's statements.

The defense can also point out that the Crumbleys said Ethan never gets in trouble at school, he is a good kid, references like that.

2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

I see this as crucial.

We'll see if Smith backtracks to the school meeting tomorrow and addresses it.
The prosecution will especially be all over it if Smith gives JC a pass on asking her about it.

I posted this earlier today when Smith moved on from the meeting on the 30th.

"So far JC or Smith haven't mentioned the school counselor being concerned of EC showing signs of suicide idealization and didn';t want him being alone."

 

[dyannaON]

If found guilty what is the minimum sentencing guidelines ? Tia. Sorry full of questions! Tia!

 

[Cool Cats]

I see this as crucial.

We'll see if Smith backtracks to the school meeting tomorrow and addresses it.
The prosecution will especially be all over it if Smith gives JC a pass on asking her about it.

I posted this earlier today when Smith moved on from the meeting on the 30th.

"So far JC or Smith haven't mentioned the school counselor being concerned of EC showing signs of suicide idealization and didn';t want him being alone."

Wouldn't most parents want to know about and discuss suicide idealization?
I would panic if suicide was mentioned about my kid.

The counselor said in interviews that the Crumbleys didn't ask about suicide idealization or even try to comfort Ethan, basically hands off ignoring him.

 

[Weki]

I’m starting to think a hung jury is a good probability for this case. Ugh. I hope not.

 

[IDK]

Thank you to everyone for posting the daily updates! I have not been able to watch the trial and it’s very much appreciated.

Is anyone here familiar with the book by Dr. M. Scott Peck, “The People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil”?

He recounts some cases he encountered as a psychiatrist where he felt he encountered true evil. In one family he worked with, the oldest son had committed suicide with a gun. The younger brother, Bobby, fell into a depression and started acting out. For Christmas that year, his parents gave him the same gun that his brother had used to kill himself. They had all kinds of excuses for doing that—for example they said they couldn’t afford anything else.

Basically, they were enabling Bobby to do the same thing his brother had done.

It gives me chills to think about and it’s what I think every time I hear that JC lied and said that EC’s friend had killed himself. Was she in a way giving the message to EC to do what she claimed his friend had done?

Hopefully, she is not pure evil, and I’m just glad she will never be able to have another child (due to her age)

I could be way off base, but wanted to share.

“Dr. M. Scott Peck brilliantly probes into the essence of human evil.

People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these people of the lie work in the lives of those around them. He presents, from vivid incidents encountered in his psychiatric practice, examples of evil in everyday life.

This book is by turns disturbing, fascinating, and altogether impossible to put down as it offers a strikingly original approach to the age-old problem of human evil.”

People of the Lie

In this absorbing and equally inspiring companion volume to his classic trilogy—The Road Less Traveled, Further Along the Road Less Traveled, and T...

www.simonandschuster.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you to everyone for posting the daily updates! I have not been able to watch the trial and it’s very much appreciated.

Is anyone here familiar with the book by Dr. M. Scott Peck, “The People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil”?

He recounts some cases he encountered as a psychiatrist where he felt he encountered true evil. In one family he worked with, the oldest son had committed suicide with a gun. The younger brother, Bobby, fell into a depression and started acting out. For Christmas that year, his parents gave him the same gun that his brother had used to kill himself. They had all kinds of excuses for doing that—for example they said they couldn’t afford anything else.

Basically, they were enabling Bobby to do the same thing his brother had done.

It gives me chills to think about and it’s what I think every time I hear that JC lied and said that EC’s friend had killed himself. Was she in a way giving the message to EC to do what she claimed his friend had done?

Hopefully, she is not pure evil, and I’m just glad she will never be able to have another child (due to her age)

I could be way off base, but wanted to share.

“Dr. M. Scott Peck brilliantly probes into the essence of human evil.

People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these people of the lie work in the lives of those around them. He presents, from vivid incidents encountered in his psychiatric practice, examples of evil in everyday life.

This book is by turns disturbing, fascinating, and altogether impossible to put down as it offers a strikingly original approach to the age-old problem of human evil.”

People of the Lie

In this absorbing and equally inspiring companion volume to his classic trilogy—The Road Less Traveled, Further Along the Road Less Traveled, and T...

www.simonandschuster.com

I can't believe you mentioned this book! I love this book, have read it many times to help me deal with and understand some bad people.

Not everyone who lies is evil.....But......Every evil person lies.

I steer clear of liars, big red flag to me. Even if not evil, a liar can't be trusted and could lie about me or people I care about.

2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

It's no wonder to me that people's (especially toyboy) opinions changed as lies were exposed and more information about the Crumbley's came out. Sometimes, probably usually, you only see some sides of people and who they are is not who they originally appeared to be. JMO.

Getting caught in lies very well could be what does JC in.
One thing I do believe is that if she does lie McDonald/Kaest and team will catch her every one.
I don't believe that JC is' smart enough to lie and get away with it.

 

[Cool Cats]

Getting caught in lies very well could be what does JC in.
One thing I do believe is that if she does lie McDonald/Kaest and team will catch her every one.
I don't believe that JC is' smart enough to lie and get away with it.

She isn't bright to put it mildly. Many examples.

I would be worried about Schizophrenia if my kid texted me that he saw and heard things moving in the house and heard voices. Hearing voices is a big red flag. Dishes flying out of the cupboards? Big red flag.

I would get my kid evaluated. I think she will be found guilty. She gets over 2 years credit on her prison sentence.

I predict four 15 year sentences to run concurrently.

2 Cents

 

[cottonweaver]

I've been gifted a few Xanax over the years and they're like taking 25 mgs of a Valium or diazepam.
I went to sleep so that's all I know.
They're obvioulsy addictive and are also used to come down from adderall (speed).
Plus JC could have mixed in alcohol and when the house was searched there was evidence of pot growing in the basement.

Who knows what her cocktail of choice was?

Tx.
Ah okay - yes I have used Valium and Diaz in the past. Only small dosage.
Wasn't sure if you could wake that quickly if you'd taken 4 Xanax tablets.

Yes, there was one empty bottle of whisky in the trash at the studio. ( If I was a fugitive facing charges I think I could polish off half a bottle of whisky over three nights & I rarely drink spirits. Stresssssful situation)
---
@IDK That book sounds fascinating. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[cottonweaver]

@Cool Cats What was your impression of her? How do you think the jury will view her performance so far?

 

[Izzylizzy]

If found guilty what is the minimum sentencing guidelines ? Tia. Sorry full of questions! Tia!

I can't find guidelines that state a minimum sentence.
They're all "no more than 15 yrs" and fine up to 7,000.
I also want to know and will look further.
It's the judges decision, yes?
Seriously, I can see Matthews giving her time served and a few yrs of probation.
I can also see JC wanting a plea deal if her testimony and her witnesses go off the rail.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats What was your impression of her? How do you think the jury will view her performance so far?

I need the full picture. Could only watch snippets. I plan to catch up tonight.
Nice of you to be interested in my opinion.

I am very interested in your opinions. Could you tell us what you think of her testimony?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Her story on the cash, purse, bags being stashed in storage bins.
She claims she'd told her friend to grab those the next day in their absence and she'd put them in the bins for ' extra precaution'

She wasn't sure after arraignment whether she'd be bonded out.
Makes no sense.
She's planning to go to the PD early to surrender herself but couldn't she have her friend/family collect her personal effects from the PD soon after? The cops not going to steal her property.

Can anybody make sense of that - does that sound like a credible excuse?

Nothing about JC makes sense even in the material world.
Like buying a 5,000 horse while drunk while being behind approx 10,000 on your mortgage and your 2 horses cost you about 1,000 a month, and that's on a good month.

 

[TenaciousTBacon]

On the one hand, it is good that she addressed this issue. But on the other hand, as far as I know, there are two possible ways they could have enrolled EC in a health plan if he lost coverage due to a qualifying event. One is to check with her HR department to see if this qualified as a "qualifying event" and then immediately adding EC to her company's health plan. The other is to pay for COBRA health coverage for November and December and then start EC on the health plan coverage with JC's company. COBRA is very expensive though, so maybe they decided just to add EC on to her coverage during Open Enrollment in fall 2021 and his coverage would begin in January of 2022.

In any event, her testimony does provide some context for EC's lack of coverage, and it may have been only for the final two months of 2021 after James C lost his job and thus the loss of EC's coverage.

I wonder if the jury believed her. I didn't. It sounded like a too convenient excuse from a woman who was acting too smooth about how everything was wonderful with their family. Stories of family board game nights. Sure. The neighbors have been interviewed and we've seen the text messages. They weren't the Cleavers, home for dinner every night with checkers after dessert.