MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[iluvmua]

Why do LE think JT had something to do with julia's murder?

 

[psyquestor]

Could LE have JT's cell phone tracking data that puts him in Ypsi the night/morning of the murder?

There are conflicting news items on this point. One states that JT's computer and cell phone were turned over in February when asked. The other items came later after a warrant was sought. (cite: various articles in the media thread). But to answer the question, yeah, it very well might be since the phone was supposedly collected along with the computer (which was later discovered to have child *advertiser censored* - allegedly).

Why do LE think JT had something to do with julia's murder?

That's the million dollar question, isn't it? I've just reviewed the media thread and it appears that there were multiple tips phoned in that may have been involved. I am not clear on the who, what, where or why of these.

 

[FindHG]

Edited / Updated: Notes I've been making (please add or correct me on any of the following)

• Soft kill (regarding parental kills) Link from Bessie's post thread 2
• Possbile motive - keeping Julia quiet about something someone didn't want others to know. (Child *advertiser censored*? Abuse?) Inferred from the lack of sexual assault, robbery, or other clear motive.
• Possibly premeditated; no visible signs of injury. Bessie, post #604
• Past allegations of child abuse (2000). Taping mouths shut, hitting with spoons etc. Monroe News Link
• Not allowed to teach children anymore at Do Jo; allegations of harshness to children.
• Marital problems alleged; Jim asked for a divorce. Link to 4ist's post
• Refuses to fully cooperate with LE; lawyers up quickly after Julia's death.
• All laptops / PC's not handed over to LE in the beginning. One may still be missing.
• Julia did not get along with stepfather; moves in with Grandparents.
• Julia tweets "Trust no one." Julia Twitter Credit: TigerBalm for link. (caspermi, thread #2)
• Person possibly had access to Julia's apartment; was probably known to her. (no sign of forced entry)
• Child *advertiser censored* allegedly found; JT is charged with this crime. Monroe News
• KT alleged to have had an affair allegedly due to lack of attention from JT.
• Both girls were at a prime age for molestation / abuse by pedophile at the time of allegations of abuse.
• Possibility of martial arts hold used to subdue Julia prior to drowning incident. [concept introduced in earlier thread]. Taekwondo Times Article Pg. 26 - credit to Spellbound for the link.
• Young daughter of JT and KT is not allowed to live with JT presently.
• CPS states she would be "at serious risk of harm" if allowed to live with mother. (see article re: abuse)
• Possible tie in to CB case - JT is an avid hunter who takes youngest daughter on hunts with him. (black_squirrel)
• CB's body was located on hunting land and her sister is best friends with Julia's sister.
• Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend.
• Is KT in denial because to be otherwise would be to partially blame herself? [credit FindHG] Detroit Free Press
• JT allegedly has bipolar illness and has shown instability when off meds. (according to some family members)
• JT allegedly removed the bathroom door at residence while girls were young. (red flag / controlling, inappropriate).
• JT very controlling personality, which even extended to the twins grooming habits. He did not like them to straighten their hair (ostensibly due to the smell). He would not allow them to do this in the house. (Trojan, post #622 Thread #2 page 5).
  

Neat. Just catching up, thank you so much psycquestor!

I agree with roses, this seems to me too about "silencing". Considering he's going to trial and what Kim, Jen and the youngest are going through, it still is.

 

[psyquestor]

Edited / Updated:
Notes I've been making (please add or correct me on any of the following)

• Soft kill (regarding parental kills) Link from Bessie's post thread 2
• Possible motive - keeping Julia quiet about something someone didn't want others to know. (Child *advertiser censored*? Abuse?) Inferred from the lack of sexual assault, robbery, or other clear motive. (Roses, et. al.)
• Possibly premeditated; no visible signs of injury. Bessie, post #604
• Past allegations of child abuse (2000). Taping mouths shut, hitting with spoons and pans. Monroe News Link
• Not allowed to teach children anymore at Do Jo; allegations of harshness to children.
• Marital problems alleged; Jim asked for a divorce. 4ist's post
• Refuses to fully cooperate with LE; lawyers up quickly after Julia's death.
• All laptops / PC's not handed over to LE in the beginning. One may still be missing.
• Julia did not get along with stepfather; moves in with Grandparents.
• Julia tweets "Trust no one." Julia Twitter Credit: TigerBalm for link. (caspermi thread #2)
• Person possibly had access to Julia's apartment; was probably known by her. (no sign forced entry)
• Child *advertiser censored* allegedly found; JT is charged with this crime. Monroe News
• KT alleged to have had an affair allegedly due to lack of attention from JT.
• Both girls were at a prime age for molestation / abuse by pedophile at the time of allegations of abuse.
• Possibility of martial arts hold used to subdue Julia prior to drowning incident. [concept earlier thread]. Taekwondo Times Article Pg. 26 - credit to Spellbound for the link.
• Young daughter of JT and KT is not allowed to live with JT presently.
• CPS states she would be "at serious risk of harm" if allowed to live with mother. (see article re: abuse)
• Possible tie in to CB case - JT is an avid hunter who takes youngest daughter on hunts with him. (Black_Squirrel)
• CB's body was located on hunting land and her sister is best friends with Julia's sister.
• All three girls attended Monroe HS together.
• Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend.
• Is KT in denial because to be otherwise would be to partially blame herself? Detroit Free Press Credit: FindHG
• JT allegedly has bipolar illness and has shown instability when off meds. (according to some family members)
• JT allegedly removed the bathroom door at residence while girls were young. (red flag / controlling / inappropriate).
• JT very controlling personality, which extended to the twins grooming habits. He did not like them to straighten their hair (ostensibly due to the smell). He would not allow them to do this in the house. (Trojan, post #622 Thread #2 page 5).
• Several links detailing typical dysfunction in families of child sexual abuse upthread. Some removed / not saved. (psy)
  

Updated to credit "secrets" theory.

 

[4ist]

This still does not explain why JT didn't drive them to Ypsi. IIRC KT and daughter were at a bar playing darts in a league. JT was at home with the youngest daughter. When KT called to say they were going to check on Julia, JT and child went in his truck to Ypsi to meet up with them.

Therefore I could conclude that he was available to go to Ypsi.

Like I've said before, they didn't do much together. We asked ourselves the same question, why would they not have wanted to be with each other. I know I sure would of wanted the person that I was closest to to be by my side. IMO

 

[4ist]

bbm

Huh? nature of content? does someone know what was on the missing laptop?

Seeing how the laptop that is missing is JT's, and has not been turned in by the Turnquist family, or found by LE, we do not know what was on the computer. This missing laptop was put on lay a way at Walmart by Julia & Jennifer, a Christmas gift to their step Dad Jim T. 2012. It is also my understanding that because Julia was murdered Dec. 9-10 2012, that Walmart was so kind, & paid or obsorbed the cost of the laptop, understanding the circumstance after Julia death. So at Christmas at Grandma Roses house, JT was given the laptop as a gift from the twins.

 

[4ist]

I see a parallel in the child abuse allegations and a possible motive:

Why do you tape a child's mouth shut? To shut them up and control them. FWIW I find it remarkable that Julia's major was in communications. It's like a big old 'just try to shut me up' move if I ever saw one. I admire this greatly.

Why keep a laptop from LE if it could help to find your daughter's killer?


To keep secrets, hide something.

Also, why did KT and Jennifer have to get a ride from a friend to go check on Julia? Why didn't JT take them? Obviously he had a vehicle, since he left for Ypsi shortly after KT called to say they were en-route to check on her. (information from Trojan's post in thread 2). IIRC. (What does IIRS stand for)?

All good questions or theories to consider Psyquestor.
Also it is my understanding that since JT and Kim have been together that their were more then just one report to Child protective services, about the care & the welfare of the twins & Madison.

 

[Spellbound]

IIRC = If I Recall Correctly

Here are a few pages that might help to figure out the abbreviations used:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?84535-Websleuths-Lingo

http://pc.net/slang/

 

[4ist]

In the list I've made, when I say not all computers were turned over, I am referring to the fact that only one computer was initially turned over by JT. The other electronic devices were given over later, after a warrant was issued. Yes, the items found appear to have been on that first computer which was voluntarily given to police.

I am unable to copy paste from the article; please see Trojan's link above. http://www.monroenews.com/news/2015/may/18/turnquist-case-trial-date-set/

The day that the first computer was taken in Dec. 2014, I really don't understand how come media and the Turnquists keep saying that they 'voluntarily' turned their computer over? Trojan and I got a call from Kim that day, she was very mad and upset that they took their (it was Kim's computer/ laptop, not JT's.) According to what Kim shared with us at the time JT was LIVID and told Kim, that SHE better get that computer back!!!! She even told us 'that is what JT does all of his cleaning business work on'. Which we didn't understand, knowing that JT had been given the Laptop gift from the twins in Dec. 2012 for Christmas. So if the Turnquists were so upset and livid about having to turn over Kim's computer, how can it be voluntarily? And if they so voluntarily turned over Kim's computer that day, why then didn't JT voluntarily turn over his laptop. Also, it's my understanding that Kim did go to Ypsilanti LE, demanding her computer back, very shortly after LE took it. Needless to say LE was not releasing it back to her. She demanded to see the search warrant during her visit to LE, which LE did provide for her viewing. So according to LE the Turnquist's, never voluntarily turned over any computers, the Turnquists were aware that turning any and all computers over to LE would possibly help the investigation, like Grandma Rose did VOLUNTARILY around two months after Julia died. Turnquist's evidently DID not at any time during this investigation decide to turn their computers over to LE, to help solve Julia's murder.

 

[Trojan1966]

Edited / Updated:
Notes I've been making (please add or correct me on any of the following)

• Soft kill (regarding parental kills) Link from Bessie's post thread 2
• Possible motive - keeping Julia quiet about something someone didn't want others to know. (Child *advertiser censored*? Abuse?) Inferred from the lack of sexual assault, robbery, or other clear motive. (Roses, et. al.)
• Possibly premeditated; no visible signs of injury. Bessie, post #604
• Past allegations of child abuse (2000). Taping mouths shut, hitting with spoons and pans. Monroe News Link
• Not allowed to teach children anymore at Do Jo; allegations of harshness to children.
• Marital problems alleged; Jim asked for a divorce. 4ist's post
• Refuses to fully cooperate with LE; lawyers up quickly after Julia's death.
• All laptops / PC's not handed over to LE in the beginning. One may still be missing.
• Julia did not get along with stepfather; moves in with Grandparents.
• Julia tweets "Trust no one." Julia Twitter Credit: TigerBalm for link. (caspermi thread #2)
• Person possibly had access to Julia's apartment; was probably known by her. (no sign forced entry)
• Child *advertiser censored* allegedly found; JT is charged with this crime. Monroe News
• KT alleged to have had an affair allegedly due to lack of attention from JT.
• Both girls were at a prime age for molestation / abuse by pedophile at the time of allegations of abuse.
• Possibility of martial arts hold used to subdue Julia prior to drowning incident. [concept earlier thread]. Taekwondo Times Article Pg. 26 - credit to Spellbound for the link.
• Young daughter of JT and KT is not allowed to live with JT presently.
• CPS states she would be "at serious risk of harm" if allowed to live with mother. (see article re: abuse)
• Possible tie in to CB case - JT is an avid hunter who takes youngest daughter on hunts with him. (Black_Squirrel)
• CB's body was located on hunting land and her sister is best friends with Julia's sister.
• All three girls attended Monroe HS together.
• Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend.
• Is KT in denial because to be otherwise would be to partially blame herself? Detroit Free Press Credit: FindHG
• JT allegedly has bipolar illness and has shown instability when off meds. (according to some family members)
• JT allegedly removed the bathroom door at residence while girls were young. (red flag / controlling / inappropriate).
• JT very controlling personality, which extended to the twins grooming habits. He did not like them to straighten their hair (ostensibly due to the smell). He would not allow them to do this in the house. (Trojan, post #622 Thread #2 page 5).
• Several links detailing typical dysfunction in families of child sexual abuse upthread. Some removed / not saved. (psy)
  

Updated to credit "secrets" theory.

Your statement: "Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend."
Here's an explanation.................
KT and Jennifer were playing darts at a bar (they belong to a league) which was more than 3 miles from their house. Thus a friend drove them but they called JT who was home. He then took the minor daughter with him in his truck to drive to Ypsilanti to meet at Julia's apartment.

Remember when they got the initial phone call from one of her friends/roommates, they did not know that Julia was in fact dead. They found this out when they got to her apartment.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Edited / Updated: Notes I've been making (please add or correct me on any of the following)

• Soft kill (regarding parental kills) Link from Bessie's post thread 2
• Possbile motive - keeping Julia quiet about something someone didn't want others to know. (Child *advertiser censored*? Abuse?) Inferred from the lack of sexual assault, robbery, or other clear motive.
• Possibly premeditated; no visible signs of injury. Bessie, post #604
• Past allegations of child abuse (2000). Taping mouths shut, hitting with spoons etc. Monroe News Link
• Not allowed to teach children anymore at Do Jo; allegations of harshness to children.
• Marital problems alleged; Jim asked for a divorce. Link to 4ist's post
• Refuses to fully cooperate with LE; lawyers up quickly after Julia's death.
• All laptops / PC's not handed over to LE in the beginning. One may still be missing.
• Julia did not get along with stepfather; moves in with Grandparents.
• Julia tweets "Trust no one." Julia Twitter Credit: TigerBalm for link. (caspermi, thread #2)
• Person possibly had access to Julia's apartment; was probably known to her. (no sign of forced entry)
• Child *advertiser censored* allegedly found; JT is charged with this crime. Monroe News
• KT alleged to have had an affair allegedly due to lack of attention from JT.
• Both girls were at a prime age for molestation / abuse by pedophile at the time of allegations of abuse.
• Possibility of martial arts hold used to subdue Julia prior to drowning incident. [concept introduced in earlier thread]. Taekwondo Times Article Pg. 26 - credit to Spellbound for the link.
• Young daughter of JT and KT is not allowed to live with JT presently.
• CPS states she would be "at serious risk of harm" if allowed to live with mother. (see article re: abuse)
• Possible tie in to CB case - JT is an avid hunter who takes youngest daughter on hunts with him. (black_squirrel)
• CB's body was located on hunting land and her sister is best friends with Julia's sister.
• Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend.
• Is KT in denial because to be otherwise would be to partially blame herself? [credit FindHG] Detroit Free Press
• JT allegedly has bipolar illness and has shown instability when off meds. (according to some family members)
• JT allegedly removed the bathroom door at residence while girls were young. (red flag / controlling, inappropriate).
• JT very controlling personality, which even extended to the twins grooming habits. He did not like them to straighten their hair (ostensibly due to the smell). He would not allow them to do this in the house. (Trojan, post #622 Thread #2 page 5).
  

Thank you for all your hard work. It makes things much easier.

 

[FindHG]

The day that the first computer was taken in Dec. 2014, I really don't understand how come media and the Turnquists keep saying that they 'voluntarily' turned their computer over? Trojan and I got a call from Kim that day, she was very mad and upset that they took their (it was Kim's computer/ laptop, not JT's.) According to what Kim shared with us at the time JT was LIVID and told Kim, that SHE better get that computer back!!!! She even told us 'that is what JT does all of his cleaning business work on'. Which we didn't understand, knowing that JT had been given the Laptop gift from the twins in Dec. 2012 for Christmas. So if the Turnquists were so upset and livid about having to turn over Kim's computer, how can it be voluntarily? And if they so voluntarily turned over Kim's computer that day, why then didn't JT voluntarily turn over his laptop. Also, it's my understanding that Kim did go to Ypsilanti LE, demanding her computer back, very shortly after LE took it. Needless to say LE was not releasing it back to her. She demanded to see the search warrant during her visit to LE, which LE did provide for her viewing. So according to LE the Turnquist's, never voluntarily turned over any computers, the Turnquists were aware that turning any and all computers over to LE would possibly help the investigation, like Grandma Rose did VOLUNTARILY around two months after Julia died. Turnquist's evidently DID not at any time during this investigation decide to turn their computers over to LE, to help solve Julia's murder.

The missing laptop, since its purchase is so well documented, I would imagine so would where, when, and how it was used be obvious to LE, if not the Turnquist, thus by not making it obvious, handing it over, their actions risk being construed as impeding an investigation, eventually, one may conjecture.

 

[black_squirrel]

The missing laptop, since its purchase is so well documented, I would imagine so would where, when, and how it was used be obvious to LE, if not the Turnquist, thus by not making it obvious, handing it over, their actions risk being construed as impeding an investigation, eventually, one may conjecture.

According to the Turnquist family, the computer taken in 2015 is the one that was a gift from Julia & Jennifer. Some people have questioned whether this is true. I agree with you, FindHG, that it would be easy for LE to prove that this is not the same computer if that is indeed the case. In that case, there would be additional charges regarding the obstruction of the investigation on top of the child *advertiser censored* charges. As far as I know, this has not (yet?) happened.

 

[FindHG]

According to the Turnquist family, the computer taken in 2015 is the one that was a gift from Julia & Jennifer. Some people have questioned whether this is true. I agree with you, FindHG, that it would be easy for LE to prove that this is not the same computer if that is indeed the case. In that case, there would be additional charges regarding the obstruction of the investigation on top of the child *advertiser censored* charges. As far as I know, this has not (yet?) happened.

Maybe LE has it, through some other means. I'm not sure why, but it struck me something about Turnquist that he may have had the habit of hiding things in the ceiling. It goes back to my point about Kim and especially Jen as she is young, smart and strong, to at least take some measure to have independent counsel in a situation like this because who knows how much more damage may come to light?

 

[black_squirrel]

Why do you tape a child's mouth shut? To shut them up and control them. FWIW I find it remarkable that Julia's major was in communications. It's like a big old 'just try to shut me up' move if I ever saw one. I admire this greatly.

But the accusation of taping the mouth was investigated by CPS, and they found no evidence of that. Moreover, Jennifer has stated that these things never happened. So it seems that these accusations are false. If these are indeed false accusations, then it would be interesting who made these allegations, why, and how the accuser came up with "taping the mouth".

Also it is my understanding that since JT and Kim have been together that their were more then just one report to Child protective services, about the care & the welfare of the twins & Madison.

If I remember correctly, the allegations discussed above came up in one of the hearings. I presume that, if there had been other allegations, then those allegations would have come up as well. I am not sure how you came to the understanding there there was more than 1 accuser. Did anyone tell you that they reported to CPS about JT?

 

[caspermi]

Like I've said before, they didn't do much together. We asked ourselves the same question, why would they not have wanted to be with each other. I know I sure would of wanted the person that I was closest to to be by my side. IMO

So who let them into the apartment? A roommate? Landlord? Or did the parents or sister have a key?

 

[psyquestor]

But the accusation of taping the mouth was investigated by CPS, and they found no evidence of that. Moreover, Jennifer has stated that these things never happened. So it seems that these accusations are false. If these are indeed false accusations, then it would be interesting who made these allegations, why, and how the accuser came up with "taping the mouth".

If I remember correctly, the allegations discussed above came up in one of the hearings. I presume that, if there had been other allegations, then those allegations would have come up as well. I am not sure how you came to the understanding there there was more than 1 accuser. Did anyone tell you that they reported to CPS about JT?

In the list I did state it was an allegation. **In my musing, I did not. The link provided does state the allegations were not followed up on by CPS. This does not mean it didn't happen. However I have added them for completeness sake; just as the media did. As you say, it was also brought up at the hearing to remove the minor child from the residence. Surely this means that they consider it relevant in some fashion.

I'll play devil's advocate and state that just because Jennifer was not abused (or doesn't recall it) doesn't mean that Julia wasn't abused. Since Julia isn't here to tell us, I have included it here with the stipulation that it is an allegation. They do seem to have had different relationships with their step father.

**ETA: I did say it was an allegation in my post after all. I double checked. Please include a citation where CPS says they have found no evidence of this abuse. Red added by me.

 

[psyquestor]

The reasons for citing intervention by DHS included accusations of abuse made in 2000 when Julia and her twin sister, Jennifer, were 11. Those allegations accused Mr. Turnquist of abusing the girls by taping their mouths shut and tearing off the tape; striking them with a wooden spoon and pan, and keeping food from them as a form of punishment, according to the documents.

#The accusations were investigated by Child Protective Services and no further action was taken.

The article then states the lawyer for JT states the allegations were false. It does not say CPS determined them to be false. It states no further action was taken. No reason given for no further action.

Here is the article link again: http://t.monroenews.com/news/2015/m...ove-daughter-turnquist-home/?templates=tablet

 

[psyquestor]

Your statement: "Although JT has a truck, KT and Jennifer get a ride to check on Julia through a friend."
Here's an explanation.................
KT and Jennifer were playing darts at a bar (they belong to a league) which was more than 3 miles from their house. Thus a friend drove them but they called JT who was home. He then took the minor daughter with him in his truck to drive to Ypsilanti to meet at Julia's apartment.

Remember when they got the initial phone call from one of her friends/roommates, they did not know that Julia was in fact dead. They found this out when they got to her apartment.

Thank you for this Trojan. I was not aware that the roommate had phoned them. This falls into place for me now, so I have removed it from my list. To answer someone else's post, I assume that it was the roommate who let them into the apartment then. (But how this is relevant escapes me).

 

[MIMOMMY]

I can confirm that the first laptop was taken early into the investigation of Julia's murder and LONG before this new situation. The second laptop was taken with a warrant slightly before JT's arrest in February of this year.