MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[black_squirrel]

The article then states the lawyer for JT states the allegations were false. It does not say CPS determined them to be false. It states no further action was taken. No reason given for no further action.

I did not say that CPS determined the allegations to be false. I stated that they found no evidence. Do you think they did find evidence, but decided to let the abuse go on?

 

[MIMOMMY]

You can also find that information here: http://www.monroenews.com/news/2015/may/18/turnquist-case-trial-date-set/

 

[MIMOMMY]

I did not say that CPS determined the allegations to be false. I stated that they found no evidence. Do you think they did find evidence, but decided to let the abuse go on?

This information was recently brought up at a court hearing, and was deemed by the courts to have no bearing on anything as the allegations were found unjust by the person making the claim. Also, please remember that Jennifer stands firm that not only did this never happen, but that she had no idea these claims had even occurred.

 

[black_squirrel]

I'll play devil's advocate and state that just because Jennifer was not abused (or doesn't recall it) doesn't mean that Julia wasn't abused.

From the article:

Those allegations accused Mr. Turnquist of abusing the girls by taping their mouths shut and tearing off the tape; striking them with a wooden spoon and pan, and keeping food from them as a form of punishment, according to the documents.

The allegation stated that both girls were being abused. If one of them wasn't abused, then the anonymous accuser is not credible IMO. In that case it is unlikely that the other one has been abused.

 

[psyquestor]

I did not say that CPS determined the allegations to be false. I stated that they found no evidence. Do you think they did find evidence, but decided to let the abuse go on?

Are we mincing words? No article I have read states that CPS found those allegations to be false (no evidence; unsubstantiated, (insert favorite synonym here). It says no further action was taken.

Do I think they allowed abuse to go on? That's an odd question. How would I know what goes on in the minds of a CPS worker (DHS, social workers, insert favorite synonym here) ? Let me put it this way, it would not be the first time that CPS dropped the ball on an actual abuse case (if abuse indeed happened) I can cite many cases where the "ball was dropped." (infer favorite meaning at will here).

If it pleases you, I'll cite at will. However I think that would be a waste of everyone's time (particularly mine) as it is (dare I say) COMMON for that to happen. CPS workers are renown for being overworked and underpaid.

Here's just one:https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=child+protective+services+dropped+the+ball

ETA: I didn't write the article, I simply quoted it. If you have a problem with the wording I would contact the reporter. Perhaps they can clear that up.

 

[Forager]

I did not say that CPS determined the allegations to be false. I stated that they found no evidence. Do you think they did find evidence, but decided to let the abuse go on?

I was taking her point to be that CPS didn't find evidence, and that JT's lawyer bumped that up to a conclusion that the allegations were false, which isn't really the same thing. We don't have evidence that anyone in particular killed Julia, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[psyquestor]

From the article:

The allegation stated that both girls were being abused. If one of them wasn't abused, then the anonymous accuser is not credible IMO. In that case it is unlikely that the other one has been abused.

So when abuse happens in a home it happens to all the children living there or not at all? How odd.
With all due respect, we aren't privy to what the allegations were and cannot determine who said what about whom.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was just referring to an old post upthread and noticed I had accidentally used the youngest daughters name instead of "M", "the youngest daughter", or "the minor child". Thank you all for catching, if I goof up on that. We don't want to add anything more on that child's plate. Thanks all

 

[black_squirrel]

This information was recently brought up at a court hearing, and was deemed by the courts to have no bearing on anything as the allegations were found unjust by the person making the claim. Also, please remember that Jennifer stands firm that not only did this never happen, but that she had no idea these claims had even occurred.

Most likely, Julia never heard about these claims either. Sadly, she was murdered before she had the opportunity to put these allegations to rest.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I was trying to better understand why the Prosecution would have offered JT a plea, and why JT chose to turn it down. In doing a little studying up on the topic, apparently 90% of all criminal cases in the US are offered a plea. A lot has to do with case load, calendaring, etc. Wow! Who knew!

Editing to add link that states this statistic:
http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/plea-bargains-in-depth.html

 

[psyquestor]

I was taking her point to be that CPS didn't find evidence, and that JT's lawyer bumped that up to a conclusion that the allegations were false, which isn't really the same thing. We don't have evidence that anyone in particular killed Julia, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[black_squirrel]

So when abuse happens in a home it happens to all the children living there or not at all? How odd.
With all due respect, we aren't privy to what the allegations were and cannot determine who said what about whom.

You misrepresent or misunderstand the statement that I made. Of course it is possible that only one child is being abused. But if one person makes two accusations, and one of the accusations is false, then the other accusations should not be used as "proof", because the accuser is not credible. The other accusation could still be true, but other independent proof of it is needed.

 

[psyquestor]

Oh no, I did understand what you said. I am simply saying that the absence of one does not preclude the other from being true. Without being able to read whatever the original complaint said, we have no way of knowing the particulars of the allegations. (broken record anyone?) Therefore I have qualified my post by stating the allegations are alleged to have happened (according to the cited source).

Moving on and for the record, no ad hominems please. I haven't misrepresented a thing. I have cited my sources and been careful to qualify my statements. If we're going to sling mud...well...no thanks. I'm better than that.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

In the list I did state it was an allegation. **In my musing, I did not. The link provided does state the allegations were not followed up on by CPS. This does not mean it didn't happen. However I have added them for completeness sake; just as the media did. As you say, it was also brought up at the hearing to remove the minor child from the residence. Surely this means that they consider it relevant in some fashion.

I'll play devil's advocate and state that just because Jennifer was not abused (or doesn't recall it) doesn't mean that Julia wasn't abused. Since Julia isn't here to tell us, I have included it here with the stipulation that it is an allegation. They do seem to have had different relationships with their step father.

**ETA: I did say it was an allegation in my post after all. I double checked. Please include a citation where CPS says they have found no evidence of this abuse. Red added by me.

How did the girls have a different relationship with their step father?

 

[Criminal Justice mom]

Okay....so this may seem like a completely evil and terrible thing to even suggest, so please forgive me in advance should I offend anyone. I feel like I should disclose why I often feel my "filter" is broken... I've worked as a correctional nurse in a men's state prison for more than a decade and have worked with some of the sickest of ofenders, many horific child abusers. Hearing their crimes becomes too much the norm. Anyway, that being said, I was wonder if anyone has dared or would even want to, to go in search of anything JT may have produced and sold or put online of the twins during their years while living together at home with him (sans bathroom door). I know that in some cases, parents in search of their daughters they think maybe involved in human trafficing, go online searching the most horrific and darkest of places looking for pictures, videos, or the like of them, posted in the sick, demented forums, where such things might be found, hoping to spot their child, while hoping their child isnt being held captive in that hell. To do this of course, it would need to be someone who could recognize the girls from their younger years. As I said, I'm sorry if this idea upsets anyone. I was just thinking of ways to see if their maybe images etc of the girls ("twins" having their own group of followers, or considered a rare prize" to some) that could by chance help to prove whst so many are speculating. I dont suggest that anyone go about doing this without 1st knowing full well what if any consquences there could be for accessing such types of materials online.

Just my opions... of course.

 

[psyquestor]

You misrepresent or misunderstand the statement that I made. Of course it is possible that only one child is being abused. But if one person makes two accusations, and one of the accusations is false, then the other accusations should not be used as "proof", because the accuser is not credible. The other accusation could still be true, but other independent proof of it is needed.

PS It's called sarcasm. I've been struggling with a migraine most of this afternoon. I look forward to posting more when I am feeling more myself. Apologies for sounding trite; it doesn't translate well in type.

 

[psyquestor]

Okay....so this may seem like a completely evil and terrible thing to even suggest, so please forgive me in advance should I offend anyone. I feel like I should disclose why I often feel my "filter" is broken... I've worked as a correctional nurse in a men's state prison for more than a decade and have worked with some of the sickest of ofenders, many horific child abusers. Hearing their crimes becomes too much the norm. Anyway, that being said, I was wonder if anyone has dared or would even want to, to go in search of anything JT may have produced and sold or put online of the twins during their years while living together at home with him (sans bathroom door). I know that in some cases, parents in search of their daughters they think maybe involved in human trafficing, go online searching the most horrific and darkest of places looking for pictures, videos, or the like of them, posted in the sick, demented forums, where such things might be found, hoping to spot their child, while hoping their child isnt being held captive in that hell. To do this of course, it would need to be someone who could recognize the girls from their younger years. As I said, I'm sorry if this idea upsets anyone. I was just thinking of ways to see if their maybe images etc of the girls ("twins" having their own group of followers, or considered a rare prize" to some) that could by chance help to prove whst so many are speculating. I dont suggest that anyone go about doing this without 1st knowing full well what if any consquences there could be for accessing such types of materials online.

Just my opions... of course.

And end up in prison? No thank you m'am. That's what LE is for and I wouldn't suggest this route for anyone (for the reason stated). It's a crime!

FWIW My two cents.

Off to take a Relapax.

 

[black_squirrel]

PS It's called sarcasm. I've been struggling with a migraine most of this afternoon. I look forward to posting more when I am feeling more myself. Apologies for sounding trite; it doesn't translate well in type.

Maybe I misunderstood you. Hope your migraine will go away soon!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Criminal Justice Mom,

You have a very unique perspective, thank you for being here!
I'm sure LE has been exploring the very questions you have posed.
I know everyone is wanting to know *who* is in those 18 pics that LE has that have resulted in charges against the POI.

And the stakes are very high for the POI. I would assume if found guilty, he would have to register as an RSO, and have restrictions on access to the youngest girl? I'm not sure on either points, just speculating.

 

[Trojan1966]

Let's discuss the "missing" laptop computer. LE can determine all sorts of information from the two computers they now have. The one given or seized in December 2014 (depending on what you believe) was a very old laptop. Now LE should be able to determine the "age" of the "newer" one seized in the February search warrant. If it is fairly "new" then there may be a good question as to what happened to the one from December 2012. Unfortunately, LE in Ypsilanti does not do many press releases even if it's a statement every 3 months letting people know that the investigation is still on-going and leads are being checked out. I really liked how the Monroe County Sheriff did press releases concerning the Bruck case. Now that they are looking for a suspect (s) in the murder, we'll see how often they hold press conferences or release statements to the press.