MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Hatfield]

I don't believe it was an accident. In my mind, there's a small chance that it was a sudden impulse after the perp accessed her room and saw her there or had a confrontation with her, but even that, I sort of doubt.

Agree it was no accident. The biting of the tounge tells me she probably bit her tounge as she was being suffocated.

This is just a guess. Because the pillow case was removed I suspect the perp had used the pillow to suffocate her. I think she bit her tounge while being suffocated with a pillow and maybe she didn't die all the way and so the perp then bound her hands behind her back. After the monster did whatever else he was going to do he then finished her off by suffocating her even more with the pillow. I think he then grabbed whatever evidence he thought about and left. But after he was gone he realized he could maybe make it look like an accidental drowning by putting her in the tub so he went back in the apartment not long after. After he realized he could not make it look like an accidental drowning because rigor mortis had her arms behind her back then he decided to make it look like a burglarly gone wrong. So he ransacked the place and turned drawers upside down and dumped contents.

He cleaned up as much of his evidence as he could and maybe even left the rubber gloves with someone elses DNA. He may have found those gloves at his job or had noticed them in a trash bin as he first dumped evidence from the initial visit to the apartment.

Anyway just throwing out some theories. The only thing I am pretty sure of is this was no accident. I do think she bit her tounge while being suffocated.

 

[Hatfield]

l

from the article you posted:
Niswender was supposed to work at a cleaning account for her stepfather that morning, according to statements to police.

Giving a little leeway, the warrant (as far as I found) did not actually say "that morning", JT's statement was only that they spoke of her working at an apartment complex, but was not specific if it was that day. Did the reporter take the liberty to word it that way, or did he have access to something that specifically said the work was that day?

yeah, whos statements to police is the reporter referring to. Bolded above.

 

[MIMOMMY]

A few questions.......And where was it located? Was the contract to start on Monday?

The community is located in Milan and was set to begin on Wednesday, December 12th. I left my employment with said Community to take a promotion inside of the company the Spring of that year and recently came across my desk calendar from that time frame which confirms it was set to start on Wednesday.

 

[Hatfield]

I apologize for being so graphic as I realize there is family and friends of Julia here. Im terribly sorry and I will be much more careful and try to refrain from being so graphic. We have so many horrific cases here on WS that I sometimes get a little immune to how horrific they truly are.

Sincere apologies.

 

[Skigirl]

I am wondering if the reason no one noticed anything odd is because the perp blended in and maybe even lived in the building (thus the familiarity with which keys to take). Did any of Julia's high school friends or friends from her community also attend EMU during that timeframe? Note that we cannot name names here due to the TOS. I think it's VERY odd that a friend from home was also murdered within a couple years.

 

[black_squirrel]

The community is located in Milan and was set to begin on Wednesday, December 12th. I left my employment with said Community to take a promotion inside of the company the Spring of that year and recently came across my desk calendar from that time frame which confirms it was set to start on Wednesday.

I couldn't find the 2012 academic EMU calender online, but looking at other years, the last day of class was probably Dec 10 or 11. Followed by maybe one "study day" and then final exams.
Julia probably still had some classes on Monday and/or Tuesday. Students usually don't skip the last class because it may be the last opportunity to ask questions on topics that may appear
on the final exam. If she would take on another job with JT, it probably would be after her final exams. I am doubtful that Julia would work with JT on Monday. Grandma Rose stated that Julia was going to work with JT on Monday at 6am, and Rose's sister said something similar. But Jennifer states that Julia was going to classes and to work at Walmart.

 

[georgiasblu]

"However, police findings that the fluid was from a man with a vasectomy – which her stepfather had – don't rule out others Julia was spending time with who are rumored to have had the same procedure, she said."
Does that sound plural to you all? Like there were multiple men with vasectomies? That's a little odd?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I do wonder if JT ever received any type of counseling, to help cope with the severe physical and mental abuse that he was subjected to as a child by the step-father and possibly by the mother. I just cannot get over the statements of abuse, by his mother, sister and step-mother. The severe physical and mental abuse are frightening to even imagine. And, the statements by the biological mother and sister on JT being a witness to the step-father abusing the mother in the worst ways possible, while living in motels rooms, in tight quarters are a nightmare!

IMO...Sadly, when someone endures such a childhood trauma, it can cast a shadow over their adulthood. Our minds are powerful and can/will engage in defense mechanisms to help us cope with such abuse in order to survive. Such events may be forgotten or blocked from consciousness. The personality may split off in an effort to better compartmentalize the abuse, keeping it in 'lock down', away from the rest of the personality. I do wonder if something like this has happened with JT.

IMO...Sadly, after reading the affidavit, I do believe JT's past trauma may be important to this case.

 

[georgiasblu]

Agree it was no accident. The biting of the tounge tells me she probably bit her tounge as she was being suffocated.

This is just a guess. Because the pillow case was removed I suspect the perp had used the pillow to suffocate her. I think she bit her tounge while being suffocated with a pillow and maybe she didn't die all the way and so the perp then bound her hands behind her back. After the monster did whatever else he was going to do he then finished her off by suffocating her even more with the pillow. I think he then grabbed whatever evidence he thought about and left. But after he was gone he realized he could maybe make it look like an accidental drowning by putting her in the tub so he went back in the apartment not long after. After he realized he could not make it look like an accidental drowning because rigor mortis had her arms behind her back then he decided to make it look like a burglarly gone wrong. So he ransacked the place and turned drawers upside down and dumped contents.

He cleaned up as much of his evidence as he could and maybe even left the rubber gloves with someone elses DNA. He may have found those gloves at his job or had noticed them in a trash bin as he first dumped evidence from the initial visit to the apartment.

Anyway just throwing out some theories. The only thing I am pretty sure of is this was no accident. I do think she bit her tounge while being suffocated.

I wondered if the pillowcase was used to gag her.

 

[RosemountGAL]

I think that once his lawyer requested the additional information there was a meeting of minds on both sides of LE... I think they gave the minimum information for THIS hearing ... I think they have a lot of information that we are not privy to. They probably weighed both sides and decided to not "worry" as much about this trial but to hold on to information as not to HINDER the murder case they are investigating.

Just because of this trial going the way it did I don't see any change in the investigation and the route it is on. It seems like some people are now saying poor JT... I feel the same way as I did before and I think if there wasn't a murder involved in all this the *advertiser censored* trial would have had much different ending.... Normally when there is smoke there is fire... JMO

 

[Spellbound]

At this point, I agree with you, RosemountGAL.

If it weren't for the *advertiser censored* trial, we woud not know a lot of the family issues, either. Before that, I could give JT more leeway, but now..... I see the case continuing with him being the prime POI.

 

[MamaDMK]

If JT owned a cleaning business and had such a great relationship with the girls, why didn't JN regularly work for him? With him being the boss, I would assume that her work schedule could be made somewhat flexible in order to work around class/travel times.. or even just on weekends and holiday breaks.

Its almost made to seem as though he is doing JN a big favor by letting her earn some extra holiday money. I wonder why? He obviously had other employee's, as its stated that he left rather early in order to pick them up.
I know if my husband owned a business, my children would be more than encouraged to help our 'family' business, rather than a huge corporation.

 

[RosemountGAL]

It takes a lot to get a Judge to sign off on a search warrant... Before any of the "*advertiser censored*" was even brought up THERE was a reason why they started looking towards the step-dad and THERE was a reason why they got a warrant for the computers... The *advertiser censored* just popped up while investigating the murder. I think we keep forgetting that. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I don't understand why they could not get DNA confirmation from the seminal fluid. Something sounds strange to me that they were able to say that it was consistent with a vasectomy person but why could they not do regular DNA testing on it. Isnt there there DNA in the fluid itself or from swab testing of the victim.

If they can get DNA from a swab of saliva then shouldnt they be able to get DNA from testing any fluid like that. Sounds strange to me the way the report only talked about the vasectomy part.

 

[RosemountGAL]

Thanks Bessie and Trojan. THIS is what I think our focus and concern should be about.... THERE was a reason for this statement to begin this document. The *advertiser censored* was like a side note

 

[caspermi]

I don't understand why they could not get DNA confirmation from the seminal fluid. Something sounds strange to me that they were able to say that it was consistent with a vasectomy person but why could they not do regular DNA testing on it. Isnt there there DNA in the fluid itself or from swab testing of the victim.

If they can get DNA from a swab of saliva then shouldnt they be able to get DNA from testing any fluid like that. Sounds strange to me the way the report only talked about the vasectomy part.

The affidavit mentions two different male DNA donors were found in the gloves. JT was excluded as a donor for one of the samples and the other sample was too weak for comparison.

It is mentioned that the vaginal, rectal and thigh swabs tested positive for seminal fluid containing no sperm.

No mention of DNA extracts from these three semen swabs was contained in the affidavit. I found two forensic studies on DNA extraction from semen of vasectomized donors and in both studies they were able to extract DNA from all donor samples. (Study 1- 6 of 6 donors, Study 2 - 90 of 90 donors).

Study 1 http://tinyurl.com/ou2ds44

Study 2 http://tinyurl.com/nv5bldy

I’m certainly no DNA expert, but based on these studies, I find it difficult to believe that no DNA could be extracted from any of the three swabs.

Is it possible that they were able to extract DNA and it doesn’t match JT, otherwise he would have been arrested already and also doesn’t match anyone registered in CODIS. If they were able to extract DNA from swabs, do they match the DNA from the gloves.

Is it possible JT is still of POI because this could have been a murder for hire with JT not actually committing the murder?

 

[Skigirl]

Thanks Bessie and Trojan. THIS is what I think our focus and concern should be about.... THERE was a reason for this statement to begin this document. The *advertiser censored* was like a side note

View attachment 82077

I don't disagree that JT should be on the POI list at all... but it seems like we're sort of at a dead end with what is known now and we will be until and unless there is evidence that was uncovered is revealed yet (e.g., texts/email, DNA from the seminal fluid). I'm interested in exploring all possibilities, including keeping an open mind that more than one individual (eg someone Julia knew in Milan or someone Julia knew in Ypsi or an individual that could have fallen in both categories) would be interesting to explore. JMO.

 

[caspermi]

Thanks Bessie and Trojan. THIS is what I think our focus and concern should be about.... THERE was a reason for this statement to begin this document. The *advertiser censored* was like a side note

View attachment 82077

This sounds like boilerplate language copied and pasted freely by LE in their affidavits. Belong to (fill in blank), relating to (fill in blank).

 

[Hatfield]

The affidavit mentions two different male DNA donors were found in the gloves. JT was excluded as a donor for one of the samples and the other sample was too weak for comparison.

It is mentioned that the vaginal, rectal and thigh swabs tested positive for seminal fluid containing no sperm.

No mention of DNA extracts from these three semen swabs was contained in the affidavit. I found two forensic studies on DNA extraction from semen of vasectomized donors and in both studies they were able to extract DNA from all donor samples. (Study 1- 6 of 6 donors, Study 2 - 90 of 90 donors).

Study 1 http://tinyurl.com/ou2ds44

Study 2 http://tinyurl.com/nv5bldy

I’m certainly no DNA expert, but based on these studies, I find it difficult to believe that no DNA could be extracted from any of the three swabs.

Is it possible that they were able to extract DNA and it doesn’t match JT, otherwise he would have been arrested already and also doesn’t match anyone registered in CODIS. If they were able to extract DNA from swabs, do they match the DNA from the gloves.

Is it possible JT is still of POI because this could have been a murder for hire with JT not actually committing the murder?

Excellent summary of exactly the types of question I was wondering about regarding that semen fluid.

They only talked in the affidativ about it being consistent with a vasectomy person but never mentioned about checking it against his DNA or anybody else's DNA or whether they got a good DNA readout from the fluid at all.

I agree with you that maybe they did do the testing and for some reason or another like you are questioning maybe they purposely left out saying anything about it in the affidativ.

Something seems real odd about the lack of talking about the DNA.

 

[Spellbound]

I don't understand why they could not get DNA confirmation from the seminal fluid. Something sounds strange to me that they were able to say that it was consistent with a vasectomy person but why could they not do regular DNA testing on it. Isnt there there DNA in the fluid itself or from swab testing of the victim.

If they can get DNA from a swab of saliva then shouldnt they be able to get DNA from testing any fluid like that. Sounds strange to me the way the report only talked about the vasectomy part.

If a vasectomy was totally successful, no sperm is left to test. If I understand correctly, DNA is in the sperm. We had a big discussion in this recently with links to info on DNA and vasectomies. Here is a page I just looked at that may give you an idea of why it isn't always possible:
http://www.guardianforensicsciences.com/the-case-of-the-vasectomized-rapist.html