MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

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princesspjs said:
IMO a 5 year old could write down a few facts correctly. Shouldn't an adult person, even if they had never been trained in any observation skills be able to get some main points of an event as important as a child who had just:

a) suddenly got out of the car and just took off. (original police report)
b) disappeared while her father is doing a #2 in a gas station bathroom 2 miles away from home.
c) wandered off after probably having a seizure of some kind due to an unknown cause.
d) run away and had possibly gone to the Bridge for runaways in Minneapolis. If they call her from the Bridge to tell them that she's there, they will send a cab to pick her up. (possibility given in the original police report)
e) run away and had possibly gone to a friend's house.(possibility given in the original police report)

Those are the scenarios that have been given so far that I can remember off the top of my head right now. That was a good point though that was brought up - why would Maple Grove PD take a formal report of an incident from a person who wasn't even there? That doesn't make sense. There is probably another report but it wouldn't replace an officer's original report as it is the.original.report.

Pouring over these pesky little details like who was there at the time and how her disappearance actually happened hasn't helped to find Amy for the past 25 years. I applaud the Maple Grove PD's coming up with a new angle after all of these years. It's time to take another route and go to the people who actually knew her and spoke to her and find out what she talked about. Maybe she told someone why she kept running away. Maybe someone will finally feel comfortable confiding something that will find Amy, bring closure, peace of mind or justice. Whatever the case finding out the truth is what Amy deserves.

I'm not even going to look at any of the old stuff anymore - it's all just immediately disputed on here for some reason.

For now I'm going to focus on the current efforts and that is to get the word out on anyone who remembers anything about Amy to contact one of the two detectives. :peace:
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Princess, THANK YOU! ! This post really delineates the important information, and I appreciate it.

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie
 
Concerning the gunshots reported - It seemed odd that it was the only outlet that I could find that included that line. I wasn't sure if it was a mistake, as the rest of the story seemed identical to most from the associated press.
I contacted the reporter who was able to disseminate a little more information. There statement was made to her directly from only one neighbor actually. I'm not certain if I can post his actual name since it wasn't in the story directly.
This individual lives about three blocks away, and there are actually several houses in between the Pagnac's house and this individual's house. He was mentioned in several other news articles, and was interviewed as saying his son grew up with Amy - this individual's son would have been 3 in 1989.
The reporter confirmed that the police were notified of this individual's report and were aware of it. The police did not confirm the report as factual.
The statement regarding the gunshots at the house has now been removed from the story.
 
No info on what transpired when the parents found out about the stripping?

Was LE contacted? Any searches made of the establishment? Co workers interviewed?
 
human said:
No info on what transpired when the parents found out about the stripping?

Was LE contacted? Any searches made of the establishment? Co workers interviewed?
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I think there was no particular establishment or co-workers. I wonder about the origin of this information. It certainly doesn't appear that LE took it seriously.
 
Where would she be stripping? I thought the PI reported this
 
The whole everything about this case sets off my hinky meter.
 
spagnac said:
I am Amy's mother. Many of you have had a lot of good questions. Regarding the statement, that Amy "suffered from fits of anger", I have no idea why that statement is there. I have no idea what they meant. Amy has never been violent, or harmed anyone.

Yes there was a witness that saw Amy and her father leaves the farm. A private investigator is the one that found that witness, and provided the information to the police.

This same private investigator found somebody that had known Amy prior to her going missing. This person stated that she had talked to Amy. It was sometime within the 1st 2 weeks of her going missing. This information was also provided to the police.

There was a call to one of missing children organizations, stating they felt that Amy was too young to be with the people she was with. Amy also identified herself as Amy Sue Pagnac. The location of this was at a bus or train station on the West Coast. Amy used almost the exact same statements with both individuals, with regard to why she wasn't at home. This information I was shown to me by the original detective that was on the case.

Amy's case was considered a run-away case for several months. After they decided that it was not a run-away case, the procedures of the investigation were: we invited them into our house to look for anything that they wanted; giving them the keys to the farm for which they searched in 1990; more interrogations of us including the Hennepin County Sheriff department interviewed Amy's father for several hours, they cleared him, the detective showed me their report; verified what we had told them, including the timeline; there are other things, but it is too long and detailed.

After all that, the original detective on Amy's case made it perfectly clear to us that he was certain that Amy was the victim of a nonfamily abduction.

February or March of 1990, 2 different undercover private investigators, from a Nonprofit missing child organization, stated that they spotted Amy in a strip club, in the Midwest. Before they could act to rescue her she was moved to elsewhere. I believe these investigators did see Amy.

Maple Grove Police Department moved to a different building unfortunately, many of the records on Amy's case were lost. Timelines, witnesses, gas receipts etc.

Because of lost records, these 2 individuals need to call the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children and provide them more information about the situation, including the individuals they saw Amy with.

We have made ourselves available almost anytime the police asked, except for when one was in the hospital, etc. We have called many times asking for updates, or if there's anything else we can do, etc. Usually they never get back to us. We have been interviewed by local law enforcement, several times. They complained we don't tell them anything different or new.

Yes Amy's father is a male. Usually men do use the restrooms a lot faster than women; even men that washed their hands well usually are a little bit faster. But you know sometimes one has to do more than urination.

Both Marshall and I are listed as Amy's parents on her birth certificate.
Click to expand...

Here is info re the strip club
 
human said:
Here is info re the strip club
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. Also, I wonder why the media and others keep calling Amy's father her step-father. I checked with Ancestry.com, and, sure enough, her father is listed as Marshall Maurice Midden. She was born Jun 15, 1976.
 
Trino said:
Thanks for the info. Also, I wonder why the media and others keep calling Amy's father her step-father. I checked with Ancestry.com, and, sure enough, her father is listed as Marshall Maurice Midden. She was born Jun 15, 1976.
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I think that would also be the case if he legally adopted her.
 
If he adopted her, there would be a new birth certificate issued with him as father and they would have the same last names.
 
25 years today. I hope Amy will be found & her family will get answers.

25 years. A quarter of a century. That's a long, long time to be missing.
 
killarney rose said:
If he adopted her, there would be a new birth certificate issued with him as father and they would have the same last names.
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Not necessarily would she have the same surname. Her younger sister also uses the name Pagnac and we have every reason to think he is the biological father of her little sister. Note the mother did not take her husband's name so the kids use the mother's surname which isn't unusual. More unusual is the strong leaning toward the mother's first name Sue and choosing Amy Sue. and Sue jr. for the girls.
 
Recently, there has been a few quiet arrests made on sex/human trafficking. I know it's not a popular opinion to look at human trafficking, but since there is growing recognition and education out there as an actual problem, even in Minnesota (Fridley being the most recent in the news - another northern suburb just off 694, like MapleGrove/Osseo), does anyone know how long this has been identified, researched? Amy spent time at the bridge, and based on current research, this would be an ideal target for this population.
I'm trying to contact the woman's foundation of Minnesota, who is organizing the 'MN girls are NOT for Sale,' campaign to see what information they may have. The topics I see currently that apply go into the early 2000s. Unfortunately time, and public disbelief in the problem currently and in the past, are a hindrance.
 
Hm. I think most of the girls in the past came from homes where there had been sexual abuse. You may want to look into that connection in your research on who were victims of pimps in the past.
 
The Bridge, where I stayed for a few days at 14 years old, was not a flop house. If Amy had gone there she would have been registered as a participant and it would be a known fact by the police. I have never read that she went to The Bridge, only her mother's speculation she might have gone there has been reported.
 
Fridley was where the individual was caught, not the only place he lured his victims from.

I did not mean to make the insinuation that the bridge is a flop house, I do not believe that to be the case at all. They are a safe haven for many individuals who are in need of help or in crisis of some sort. I do not believe they are perpetuating or encouraging criminal behavior whatsoever. I was more trying to point out that the individuals who visit the Bridge for whatever reason, often have the characteristics of those looking to target victims for human trafficking. Amy also seemed to have reported changes in behavior, along with increasing disappearances.

http://www.wfmn.org/mn-girls-are-not-for-sale/educate/get-the-facts/

I understand this is not a popular area to look into, but it's one that caught my attention with this case to post.
 
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