MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

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shergal said:
No, I meant young in the sense that concentric was asking about - them being "finders" for some pedophile group. I thought they were too young for that.

Thanks so much for getting all this info, STS. Now if someone in LE or FBI would just look at it, or at least let us know why it was disregarded to begin with.
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I think that should be our goal at this point. Does anyone have legitimate contacts- to try and get this looked at by someone who has the authority to really follow up on it?
Also, back to this elusive Lou person. In the tapes, it sounds like he is the actual person who abducted Jacob. Who is he? Maybe the tapes were done by the Bahner's to try to extricate themselves from being the main perp, blaming this Lou. But who is he? I said before that I could find only about 30 men with the name Lou in the area at the time. Maybe he is the person that has connections. So far none of the men I found have criminal records at all- (I have their dates of birth - so I was able to look them all up) but there are a couple who I can't find anything on, and one who only lived there in 1989. I am still looking into this, but could use some help. Anyone?
 
I could help. What exactly do you need? I have one connection to someone who has an "in" with the local (MN) newspaper/television.
 
It would seem that since Diane wants this story out, she would like to hook up with a media person, doesn't it?
 
maybe she is frustrated that no one will listen and has given up. That happens quite frequently- especially to women from male law enforcement. Look at Noreen Gosch. Everyone has labled her crazy, she doesn't know what she is talking about. There is more and more truth to back her story up though.
 
I found this aerial photo of the area from the time of the abduction. Notice how Pondview Ln exists on the left, near to the woods on the other side of the street. Ben from the audio tapes said he saw the RB and MB in the ditch near the abduction site at 8:40pm, when he was leaving - (don't know where he was leaving from yet). And, Trevor heard something in the woods when they were on the way to the Tom Thumb, which scared him. Jacob was abducted at about 9:15pm. You can see that there are a couple of options for an escape route, but it still doesn't answer the question of how someone could have been in place before the boys got to the Tom Thumb. Unless they somehow knew it ahead of time.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/DB_photos/Noname-7.jpg
 
Solitary Truth Sleuth said:
I found this aerial photo of the area from the time of the abduction. Notice how Pondview Ln exists on the left, near to the woods on the other side of the street. Ben from the audio tapes said he saw the RB and MB in the ditch near the abduction site at 8:40pm, when he was leaving - (don't know where he was leaving from yet). And, Trevor heard something in the woods when they were on the way to the Tom Thumb, which scared him. Jacob was abducted at about 9:15pm. You can see that there are a couple of options for an escape route, but it still doesn't answer the question of how someone could have been in place before the boys got to the Tom Thumb. Unless they somehow knew it ahead of time.


http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h104/DB_photos/Noname-7.jpg
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do you have a source for that? It's really hard to see. Thanks.
 
Still wondering who in specific and what restaurant delivered the pizza, as questioned by several of you earlier on in the threads.

Probably has no relevance whatsoever, Devlin was a pizza parlor manager when he abducted Shawn Hornbeck, as we all know.

(well I take that back, perhaps relevant to the extent that maybe Devlin learned something about potential kidnapping victims from his pizza delivery routes.) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,243661,00.html

Perhaps the pizza delivery is another piece of the puzzle.

Says in the above article that Devlin got a job in the pizza parlor as a teenager.

Makes me question if a teenager (who perhaps was himself a victim) was part of whatever logistics it took to kidnap Jacob.
 
was there a pizza delivery or did they just eat a pizza from the freezer? funny that has never really been talked about.
 
Looks like there are 3 pizza delivery places in St. Joe.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp...ivery+st.+joseph+mn&pbx=1&fp=509d93197c8251b0
Not sure how many were there back in 1989. I think that Gary's Pizza has been around for a long time. There is also a long time bar/saloon/eatery in St. Joe called the La Playette. I don't know whether they ever delivered pizza or not. There is a restaurant that was there back in 1989, it's on the highway as you turn into St. Joe. It's called Kay's Kitchen. They tend to serve more "comfort food" type meals than pizza, IIRC.
 
shergal said:
Looks like there are 3 pizza delivery places in St. Joe.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp...ivery+st.+joseph+mn&pbx=1&fp=509d93197c8251b0
Not sure how many were there back in 1989. I think that Gary's Pizza has been around for a long time. There is also a long time bar/saloon/eatery in St. Joe called the La Playette. I don't know whether they ever delivered pizza or not. There is a restaurant that was there back in 1989, it's on the highway as you turn into St. Joe. It's called Kay's Kitchen. They tend to serve more "comfort food" type meals than pizza, IIRC.
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So whether it was RB and MB (or someone else)- I think they had to be tipped off. Who could have known the boys would ride to the store?
The pizza delivery person, the babysitter/family/friends, or someone at the party who heard the conversation. It couldn't have been just someone who knew they might be going to the party in Clearwater, because otherwise they would have been at the Wetterling house, not in the trees by the Rassier farm. (By the way, RB and MB were raised in Clearwater).
Or possibly a neighbor- but if what Trevor heard was the perp in the trees on his way to the store, then he was already in place, so that pretty much eliminates neighbors- not enough time to get in place. I would be curious if the Bahners were friends with DR?
One other possibility I had is maybe they were at the Rassier farm because the owners were in Europe-which would have been common knowledge in a small town. Maybe the plan was something else, and this opportunity presented itself. Just some thoughts. Still trying to track down the eyewitness, on one of the tapes, and trying to figure out who is Lou.
 
I thought the rustling was on the was back?
 
I remember reading Aaron heard it on the way to the Tom Thumb.
------------------------------

http://www.startribune.com/local/64675297.html?page=2&c=y

About halfway through their mile-long trip, Aaron heard a rustle in the tall grass by the road.

They arrived at the store near 9 p.m.

Halfway back, near the same spot where Larson heard the rustle, a man wearing a mask stepped from the dark.
 
Solitary Truth Sleuth said:
So whether it was RB and MB (or someone else)- I think they had to be tipped off. Who could have known the boys would ride to the store?
The pizza delivery person, the babysitter/family/friends, or someone at the party who heard the conversation. It couldn't have been just someone who knew they might be going to the party in Clearwater, because otherwise they would have been at the Wetterling house, not in the trees by the Rassier farm. (By the way, RB and MB were raised in Clearwater).
Or possibly a neighbor- but if what Trevor heard was the perp in the trees on his way to the store, then he was already in place, so that pretty much eliminates neighbors- not enough time to get in place. I would be curious if the Bahners were friends with DR?
One other possibility I had is maybe they were at the Rassier farm because the owners were in Europe-which would have been common knowledge in a small town. Maybe the plan was something else, and this opportunity presented itself. Just some thoughts. Still trying to track down the eyewitness, on one of the tapes, and trying to figure out who is Lou.
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It seems that the only people that knew the boys would be riding to the store is Jerry and Patty, the babysitter they got for their little sister, and the babysitter's parents. If anyone else at the Clearwater party overheard their phone conversation, it doesn't mean much. I seen on one of the articles before that Clearwater is possibly 45 minutes from St. Joe. So I doubt anyone from the party had a part in this. So we can almost illiminate the idea that the perp knew the boys would be riding to the store that night. It had to be more spur of the moment. The more I think about this I wonder, if Jacob or the boys in general were being stalked that night, what was the perp doing by Rassier's farm with a gun and a mask. Wouldn't he be stalking more towards the Wetterling house. This is all assuming that the rustling in the grass that Aaron heard on the way to the store was the perp. How could the perp be in place there if he didn't even know the boys would be riding by? It's really strange, what was he already doing in the grass? Was something else going to take place that night besides the abduction? Or was there possibly someone stalking around the house and a backup person waiting in the grass with the two of them communicating possibly through walkie talkies. I'm beginning to think more than one person was involved. This is why I always tell my children just to run if ever prompted by a stranger. I know it was dark out and they were very scared, but that so called GUN could have been a watergun for all we know. I hope this case is solved soon.
 
chef81 said:
It seems that the only people that knew the boys would be riding to the store is Jerry and Patty, the babysitter they got for their little sister, and the babysitter's parents. If anyone else at the Clearwater party overheard their phone conversation, it doesn't mean much. I seen on one of the articles before that Clearwater is possibly 45 minutes from St. Joe. So I doubt anyone from the party had a part in this. So we can almost illiminate the idea that the perp knew the boys would be riding to the store that night. It had to be more spur of the moment. The more I think about this I wonder, if Jacob or the boys in general were being stalked that night, what was the perp doing by Rassier's farm with a gun and a mask. Wouldn't he be stalking more towards the Wetterling house. This is all assuming that the rustling in the grass that Aaron heard on the way to the store was the perp. How could the perp be in place there if he didn't even know the boys would be riding by? It's really strange, what was he already doing in the grass? Was something else going to take place that night besides the abduction? Or was there possibly someone stalking around the house and a backup person waiting in the grass with the two of them communicating possibly through walkie talkies. I'm beginning to think more than one person was involved. This is why I always tell my children just to run if ever prompted by a stranger. I know it was dark out and they were very scared, but that so called GUN could have been a watergun for all we know. I hope this case is solved soon.
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It is really perplexing. Because no matter how you figure it, the logistics are hard to pull off. If they were being stalked, how would you know they would go to the store, and how would you get ahead of them? If it was a neighbor, they wouldn't have known to be at the Rassier farm at that time of night? If it was someone near the store, how did they get ahead of them to get in place? So if it wasn't any of those scenarios, then it was just opportunity. It is possible that someone was in those woods, near the farm because the owners were out of town, and just happened on the opportunity. It also leaves DR in the running. I am curious if Dr had visitors that night. Still looking for the eyewitness.
 
Solitary Truth Sleuth said:
It is really perplexing. Because no matter how you figure it, the logistics are hard to pull off. If they were being stalked, how would you know they would go to the store, and how would you get ahead of them? If it was a neighbor, they wouldn't have known to be at the Rassier farm at that time of night? If it was someone near the store, how did they get ahead of them to get in place? So if it wasn't any of those scenarios, then it was just opportunity. It is possible that someone was in those woods, near the farm because the owners were out of town, and just happened on the opportunity. It also leaves DR in the running. I am curious if Dr had visitors that night. Still looking for the eyewitness.
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I think we may finally be getting somewhere. This makes me think maybe the Bahners (or someone else) had planned to rob DR's home that night because probably a lot of people in town knew the senior Rassiers were gone to Europe. The perp or perps could have been there in masks for that reason. Maybe when they saw the kids ride by they figured they'd get more for ransom from Jacob's parents? And Jacob fought and was injured or killed, and so they couldn't collect ransom?

Only problem there is, why would you ask the boy's their ages then? Unless the Bahners or this Lou guy had a grudge against Jacob personally. And because it was dark they had to ask ages - just so they could hear his voice?
 
Even if the whole town knew the R's were in Europe, they would also know that the strong son was still in the home.
 
shergal said:
I think we may finally be getting somewhere. This makes me think maybe the Bahners (or someone else) had planned to rob DR's home that night because probably a lot of people in town knew the senior Rassiers were gone to Europe. The perp or perps could have been there in masks for that reason. Maybe when they saw the kids ride by they figured they'd get more for ransom from Jacob's parents? And Jacob fought and was injured or killed, and so they couldn't collect ransom?

Only problem there is, why would you ask the boy's their ages then? Unless the Bahners or this Lou guy had a grudge against Jacob personally. And because it was dark they had to ask ages - just so they could hear his voice?
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I have thought about a grudge as well, but it seems more likely it would be against the parents, then Jacob. Maybe the religion was too strange for some of the staunch Catholics and Christians in that town.
But even with that scenario, we are back to how did someone know they would be on that road?
Does anyone know who was the person who was working at the Tom Thumb that night. I would be curious who else was in the store that night, besides the strange man. Maybe RB or MB or Lou was there, and saw an opportunity. Because it would have been possible if someone saw them at the store, and knew them, to have known the route and get there first. The boys would have been in the store for a bit, and they were going much slower than a car. I have the last name of the eyewitness- just trying to track him down. I will be very curious to hear exactly what he saw.
I also like the thought that RB and MB were there for some other purpose and this came up. Just trying to work through all the possibilities.
 
Solitary Truth Sleuth said:
I have thought about a grudge as well, but it seems more likely it would be against the parents, then Jacob. Maybe the religion was too strange for some of the staunch Catholics and Christians in that town.
But even with that scenario, we are back to how did someone know they would be on that road?
Does anyone know who was the person who was working at the Tom Thumb that night. I would be curious who else was in the store that night, besides the strange man. Maybe RB or MB or Lou was there, and saw an opportunity. Because it would have been possible if someone saw them at the store, and knew them, to have known the route and get there first. The boys would have been in the store for a bit, and they were going much slower than a car. I have the last name of the eyewitness- just trying to track him down. I will be very curious to hear exactly what he saw.
I also like the thought that RB and MB were there for some other purpose and this came up. Just trying to work through all the possibilities.
Click to expand...

I have an answer on part of this, the girl working at Tom Thumb that night had the same last name as the babysitter/family next door/ guy who called 911, and I think it was an older sister. (This is way out there, but it did cross my mind when I heard Trevor say on the 911 tape "The man looked just like Merle here"... that maybe... but I'm sure A) he was thoroughly checked out and home with family, and b) he could have never been back at the scene grabbing Jacob and then also home when the boys ran home and somehow beat them there.) But it is an odd coincidence that one sister was babysitting and one was at the store. (I'll find a link for the sister at the store - I think it was on the Charley project site.)

Also, in a snippet I read in comments on a blog in the St. Cloud Times, there are two posters discussing the Bahner brothers and according to this "on the run joe" person, the Bahner brothers (or MB and Lou) were seen in the ditch at the Tom Thumb that night. So they were on the scene at the store. (snippet below with link)

This is a really long link, if it doesn't work, I can try tiny url. This is from our local paper by a blogger named joe on the run.

http://www.sctimes.com/apps/pbcs.dl...mmentKey:8f4cc63e-9fdc-4f44-8c1b-a002827f6b9b


Joe on the Run Commentary
This is what I think
Wetterling abduction
Posted 10/20/2009 8:33 PM CDT
go to youtube and search stearntruth. some interesting videos about the abduction.

Myrts1 wrote:
ok....so this Ben is saying the Bahner brothers are the one that took him, but this Mike Bahner is saying someone named Lou took him? am I understanding this?
10/21/2009 8:17 AM CDT

ontherunjoe wrote:
Ben is saying he saw the Bahners in the ditch when he went to the TomThumb that night. Michael is saying he was there with Lou. Understand, this was late at night and Ben could of assumed it was the both Bahner's, since they seem to be together a lot, when in fact it was Michael and Lou.
10/21/2009 7:38 PM CDT
 
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