MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[shergal]

It is odd to me there have been a higher than average number of abductions in one general area of Minnesota. For example, where I live, in the general area (let's say within 25 miles of my home), there have been three non family abductions recorded in the past 40 years. I live in a suburban area, but not far from a major city. Make no mistake, the sex offender registry for my county and the surrounding counties shows a sickening number of pedophiles. There are also runaways and family abductions that I am not counting for the purpose of this discussion. Why have there been a higher number than average of abductions perpetrated upon young males in this vicinity of Minnesota?

Possibly because there's a whole nest of them "on restrictions" at SJU? And those pedos may have attracted others to the area. (JMO) And it's not only priests and monks, St. John's seems to employ lay people who are molesters also. See Roger Julkowski and "The Farm" here:
http://www.behindthepinecurtain.com/wordpress/meet-roger-julkowski/

 

[shergal]

I don't believe the prank theory. To me, pranks are pulled by teenaged boys and include public humiliation in front of the group. And teenaged boys could have not pulled off a disappearance with no evidence for 25 years.

I have never thought the "prank theory" involved teenage boys. Patty Wetterling herself asked DR if he had done it and it was possibly a prank gone wrong. (DR has talked in his TV interviews about being known as a prankster.) To me, the prank theory meant DR (not teenagers) just intended to "scare" the boys because it was close to Halloween and after dark, and something went wrong.

 

[human]

that is what I was thinking as well Sher

I do not understand the talk about the abductions in one area Do you mean Josh Guimond as well

 

[shergal]

that is what I was thinking as well Sher

I do not understand the talk about the abductions in one area Do you mean Josh Guimond as well

Maybe phantom was talking about attempted abductions also? Because there were 2 (at least) attempted abductions of boys right before Jacob was taken. Plus Jared, and those other abduction attempts in Paynesville before Jared - in 1987. (But if he's talking about Paynesville, maybe my SJU theory doesn't work.) I was thinking Jacob, Jared, and much later Josh - although I don't think Josh was taken by the same abductor, because he was older.

We also had the Reker girls go missing and found murdered, and there was a priest (Ecker? I'd have to check) tied to that also.

 

[shergal]

Sorry, Fr. Richard Eckroth, not Ecker from above. See post #10 here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12245&highlight=reker+girls

 

[Marzipan]

It is odd to me there have been a higher than average number of abductions in one general area of Minnesota. For example, where I live, in the general area (let's say within 25 miles of my home), there have been three non family abductions recorded in the past 40 years. I live in a suburban area, but not far from a major city. Make no mistake, the sex offender registry for my county and the surrounding counties shows a sickening number of pedophiles. There are also runaways and family abductions that I am not counting for the purpose of this discussion. Why have there been a higher number than average of abductions perpetrated upon young males in this vicinity of Minnesota?

Maybe because of the cycle of abuse. I guess in places that have peds getting away with it, the victims may grow up to abuse and they have just spun quite a web of them there. Every time I look at Jacob's case I learn of another totally likely perp, usually from the area.

It's awfully bold and risky of someone to approach 3 boys together. Seems like it would be easier to be so bold if you had an accomplice. And yet it's unusual to have an accomplice in such a crime. I noticed in the article mentioning the "Mr. X" suspected in the Reker girls crime that this Mr. X had an accomplice in another crime he committed.

The only suspects in Jacob's case that seem likely to have an accomplice are the Bahner brothers plus Louis Kohls, or the Huber father and son. Or are there others? We're any of these ruled out by LE? Alibis? The YouTube tapes of MB talking about "Lou" seem feasible, but probably MB is a pathological liar?

Sorry to ramble on. I'm back after a few years. Not new, but needed to redo my account. Think I used to be "Salty" on here and on another site.

 

[shergal]

Maybe because of the cycle of abuse. I guess in places that have peds getting away with it, the victims may grow up to abuse and they have just spun quite a web of them there. Every time I look at Jacob's case I learn of another totally likely perp, usually from the area.

It's awfully bold and risky of someone to approach 3 boys together. Seems like it would be easier to be so bold if you had an accomplice. And yet it's unusual to have an accomplice in such a crime. I noticed in the article mentioning the "Mr. X" suspected in the Reker girls crime that this Mr. X had an accomplice in another crime he committed.

The only suspects in Jacob's case that seem likely to have an accomplice are the Bahner brothers plus Louis Kohls, or the Huber father and son. Or are there others? We're any of these ruled out by LE? Alibis? The YouTube tapes of MB talking about "Lou" seem feasible, but probably MB is a pathological liar?

Sorry to ramble on. I'm back after a few years. Not new, but needed to redo my account. Think I used to be "Salty" on here and on another site.

Hi Marzipan and welcome! Evidently Bahners were ruled out by LE. The you tube tapes seem to have been definitely discredited as not reliable. There was never any follow up by DM on them, although she promised some big reveal in Oct. 2013. It never happened.

One of the articles we've posted stated that LE looked at and ruled out several local suspects, some who had previous records. Not sure if that included LK or not. I'm not sure if Hubers were ever considered "serious" suspects for Jacob, although they are included in the who's who.

The Reker girls seems to be something entirely different and not related to Jacob or Jared. I guess we always just come back to DR being the only official POI that LE has named. We have covered a lot of possible suspects though.

If you haven't seen the who's who yet, go to page one of any Jacob thread and click on Case facts. :seeya:

 

[ELOCsoul]

Jacob's and Kevin's cases had a common thread in the form of Kevin's father, David:

With the surrounding area now saturated with "Jacob" fliers, Vern Iverson convinced Patty and Jerry they would need to bring in some help to take flier distribution to the next level. That help would arrive in the form of San Francisco's David Collins. Collins was uniquely qualified for the task, as he had previously coordinated about 10 such mailings over the past five years. Even more relevant, however, was Collins' personal experience with the matter at hand. You see, David Collins' own son, Kevin, had been kidnapped from a bus stop in San Francisco in 1984. Collins, an unemployed truck driver, had since taken on the role as president of the Kevin Collins Foundation, the organization bearing his son's name.

The Kevin Collins Foundation specialized in distributing information about missing children to the masses. To date the organization had taken on about 40 cases of child abduction, with some of those cases ultimately solved. However, the majority of the cases were not stranger abductions, rather they were typically abductions by family members, the most common type of child abduction. Those kinds of cases were generally easier to solve, and far less complicated than Jacob's case would prove to be. Collins would stay in St. Joseph for about a week before duty would call him to another case of a missing child.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...uncement-in-Kevin-Collins-Case-190041681.html

 

[Marzipan]

Hi Marzipan and welcome! Evidently Bahners were ruled out by LE. The you tube tapes seem to have been definitely discredited as not reliable. There was never any follow up by DM on them, although she promised some big reveal in Oct. 2013. It never happened.

One of the articles we've posted stated that LE looked at and ruled out several local suspects, some who had previous records. Not sure if that included LK or not. I'm not sure if Hubers were ever considered "serious" suspects for Jacob, although they are included in the who's who.

The Reker girls seems to be something entirely different and not related to Jacob or Jared.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm not sure I'm suggesting any relation to the Reker case. Just some thoughts though on people who would approach more than one child at a time (higher risk behavior), and the mention about the Reker suspect Mr. X having an accomplice (rare) in another case. Not that the cases are connected, but the thinking about multiple victims or potential victims and the possibility of accomplices. Which led me to Bahners and Kohls.

But I'll hold that thought. I have other misc. questions, like, does anyone know if the search area ever went past St. Joe and into Paynesville or Cold Spring. With all of the talk of a connection with Jared's case, I have still never heard that the area where Jared was taken was ever searched for Jacob. Also on the topic of a connection bt Jacob and Jared, do we know if Rassier family had a car like that described by Jared?

DR is plenty suspicious, but I still don't understand how IDing Kevin's car led investigators to assume there was no car. I am still very open to that there was a car.

Too many questions! Thanks for your patience with the newbie. I've cared about this case since the beginning, and will catch up quickly.

 

[cGorg]

I don't believe it was a prank, either. Someone had cruel intentions.

Exactly. I don't see how a prank fits into the abduction scenario. The perp threatens to shoot 2 boys while releasing them knowing they would tell their parents, then drags Jacob 40 yards....when was the gig up? If it was a prank, then the simple act of brandishing a gun while wearing a mask in the pitch black already crosses the line and would have had repercussions. Whether DR or someone else...the act is sinister + serious.

 

[human]

As far as prank, some adults are no really mature. Some people can probably think of examples. I have heard of husbands who may scare their wives, for instance.

I met Kevin Collins father at a symposium that Patty had. He looked like he was a hundred years old. For many years, I used the safe tips flier he had to give to parents. It was and probably still is excellent.

I just read another reasonLE announces a POI is that they are hoping people will come forward with information.

Does anyone know a DNA? I am wondering about the human blood found on a trunk at DR's home. Can it degrade so it cannot be identified? Is it possible LE is waiting for advances that would allow for the identification of that blood?

 

[cGorg]

Too many questions! Thanks for your patience with the newbie. I've cared about this case since the beginning, and will catch up quickly.

(snipped by me)

Marzipan...yes, still lots of questions. But don't worry about being a newbie...if you have ideas they are welcome. I am a rookie still but the veterans here are patient + knowledgeable. I would suggest reading the Case Facts + specifically shergal's Who's Who list of people involved in this case. In addition, going back to Thread #1 and reading chronologically will bring you up to speed. Unfortunately there's alot to absorb but fortunately there's been alot of ground covered. Every little bit helps.

 

[human]

as far as the tire tracks. Let us say there are ten tire tracks.

LE identified 9.

Now there is one track not identified.

Kevin comes forward. All tracks are identified.

 

[Marzipan]

as far as the tire tracks. Let us say there are ten tire tracks.

LE identified 9.

Now there is one track not identified.

Kevin comes forward. All tracks are identified.

OK, thanks, I didn't know that. So then that confirms (if they really got all the tire tracks properly ID'd) that someone was on-foot, or if he had a car that it's elsewhere. The Stearns Truth tapes were new to me, and I understand that they are discredited. Still, this photo of Louis Kohls (dug up from link in the awesome Case Facts) looks like the Jared perp sketch to me, and I remember that the ears sticking out were one of the things Jared really remembered. https://www.clickcomplete.com/jail/...ion=editprofile&jail_inmate_link=933&jcl=3964

Separate topic: Is it accurate that there was a Jacob footprint on the driveway? (or just the scent?) One thing said footprint, as if he had tried to dig a toehold into the ground. But I've never read anything about if there were adult footprints next to that.

 

[Marzipan]

as far as the tire tracks. Let us say there are ten tire tracks.

LE identified 9.

Now there is one track not identified.

Kevin comes forward. All tracks are identified.

OK, thanks, I didn't know that. So then that confirms (if they really got all the tire tracks properly ID'd) that someone was on-foot, or if he had a car that it's elsewhere. The Stearns Truth tapes were new to me, and I understand that they are discredited. Still, this photo of Louis Kohls (dug up from link in the awesome Case Facts) looks like the Jared perp sketch to me, and I remember that the ears sticking out were one of the things Jared really remembered. https://www.clickcomplete.com/jail/...ion=editprofile&jail_inmate_link=933&jcl=3964

Separate topic: Is it accurate that there was a Jacob footprint on the driveway? (or just the scent?) One thing said footprint, as if he had tried to dig a toehold into the ground. But I've never read anything about if there were adult footprints next to that.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Separate topic: Is it accurate that there was a Jacob footprint on the driveway? (or just the scent?) One thing said footprint, as if he had tried to dig a toehold into the ground. But I've never read anything about if there were adult footprints next to that.

Yes, Jacob's footprints ended where his toe seemed to have dug into the dirt. As far as we know, there were no other visible prints. I think it's fair to say that most of us have agreed that the any other prints that were in the driveway were, unfortunately, covered/destroyed by the tire tracks. Jacob's scent was tracked part way up the driveway as well, however, the dogs apparently lost the scent.

"All that remained of him on the gravel road was a spot where Jacob's footprints seemed to show resistance. And then nothing."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/investigators-dig-evidence-wetterling-case-mom-hopeful/story?id=11075883

 

[cGorg]

as far as the tire tracks. Let us say there are ten tire tracks.

LE identified 9.

Now there is one track not identified.

Kevin comes forward. All tracks are identified.

It's still important to read previous threads to lay a foundation of understanding as to the clarity of your statement

 

[buffetoflies]

Wondering if other states have such a big population of pedo priests...

 

[shergal]

Wondering if other states have such a big population of pedo priests...

According to this bishop accountability site, they have them in every state. There are only 99 names listed here, I don't think this has been updated yet with all the newly released names.
http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-A.html

"The 2004 John Jay Report was based on a study of 10,667 allegations against 4,392 priests accused of engaging in sexual abuse of a minor between 1950 and 2002." In this wiki article it's not only in the U.S., but also common in other countries.
Catholic sex abuse cases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, New York, and LA have all had large scale problems also. I don't think any state or country is immune.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/22/u...tml?ref=romancatholicchurchsexabusecases&_r=0
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refer...ions/r/roman_catholic_church_sex_abuse_cases/
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/13/u...ims.html?ref=romancatholicchurchsexabusecases

 

[human]

just to be clear, I have no idea of how many tire tracks there were in the driveway.

I am just making an assumption as to why a car was eliminated when Kevin came forward. I am assuming that all tire tracks were then identified.

We do not know if there were any adult footprints . That has never been disclosed that I know of.

Once again I ask if anyone knows how long DNA would remain viable. I am wondering about the human blood found on the chest at the DR home