GUILTY MO - Caleb Lundgren for child abuse, Linn Creek, 2010

[mimimama5]

MissIz, Filly, Et al, thanks for updating this story and providing helpful links. Another homestate baby...This makes 4 that we have heard of this month, I see a dramatic increase in the numbers.... I know our fostercare system is broken, and child endangerment in Missouri gets about as much attention as a loose roaming dog, but there has got to be something I can do as a missourian. I'm proceeding with STARS training, but I don't feel like it is enough...the babies that come into foster have already been taken from their birth homes. That means the damage has already been done,and someone has already reported it. We need some sort of prevenative measure. If anyone has any ideas, please please pass them along, I cannot read one more headline about an innocent child being hurt or worse.

 

[Missizzy]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=427873

Alleged child abuser had cult murderer father

CAMDEN COUNTY, MO. -- The man, who police say confessed to throwing his 3-month old girl across the room, breaking her skull, has a notorious father who was executed for killing five people.

"Caleb Lundgren, 29, of Linn Creek, Mo., told investigators he was high on meth when he threw the infant 5-feet towards a baby swing. He also told investigators that in another instance the infant fell to the kitchen floor from a bar stool when he turned away to smoke meth.

The Camden County Health Department's birth records confirm Caleb's father is Jeffrey Lundgren.

Jeffrey Lundgren, a self-proclaimed prophet and former cult leader, was executed in 2006 for murdering a family of five in the summer of 1989, including a 15-year-old girl, a 13-year-old girl and a 6-year-old girl who were all shot in the head...."

more at link

FWIW, Jeffrey Lundgren belonged to and was a lay minister for the RLDS, the church which splintered away from the LDS. He gathered his group up when the RLDS changed into the Community of Christ Church in the 80s and decided to allow women to be lay pastors. This is the group of churches which the Mohler family of Missouri is affiliated with.

The Bates City farmhouse, where the Mohler abuse is alleged to have occurred is only 31 miles from Warrensburg, where the cult hung out in Fall of 1989, after the murders. They stayed in some trailers, RV's, and a barn on a relative's property (per Pete Earley's book, "The Prophet of Death"). There's a comment in the Mohler probable cause document which describes an event:

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-mohler-mother-aware-of-rapes-111909,0,2906638.story

"In another incident, two victims stated they were playing at their grandfather's farm in Lafayette County, Mo., when someone said, "gypsies are in town." The girls were then taken by their father and uncle Roland to a location where several vans and RVs were parked. The girls were then placed inside a brown van where they were again raped by their father and uncle. The rapes stopped when someone pounded on the door and asked if everything was okay."

To be clear, I've read this passage numerous times on this news source but never located it in the actual Probable Cause docs. I did find it here, though:

http://www.netgrace.org/content/images/Nov 20, 2009.pdf



I wonder if this reporter was reading WS? I noticed the story of the Jeff Lundgren angle broke the morning after we discussed it.

 

[Filly]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=427873

Alleged child abuser had cult murderer father

CAMDEN COUNTY, MO. -- The man, who police say confessed to throwing his 3-month old girl across the room, breaking her skull, has a notorious father who was executed for killing five people.

"Caleb Lundgren, 29, of Linn Creek, Mo., told investigators he was high on meth when he threw the infant 5-feet towards a baby swing. He also told investigators that in another instance the infant fell to the kitchen floor from a bar stool when he turned away to smoke meth.

The Camden County Health Department's birth records confirm Caleb's father is Jeffrey Lundgren.

Jeffrey Lundgren, a self-proclaimed prophet and former cult leader, was executed in 2006 for murdering a family of five in the summer of 1989, including a 15-year-old girl, a 13-year-old girl and a 6-year-old girl who were all shot in the head...."

more at link

FWIW, Jeffrey Lundgren belonged to and was a lay minister for the RLDS, the church which splintered away from the LDS. He gathered his group up when the RLDS changed into the Community of Christ Church in the 80s and decided to allow women to be lay pastors. This is the group of churches which the Mohler family of Missouri is affiliated with.

The Bates City farmhouse, where the Mohler abuse is alleged to have occurred is only 31 miles from Warrensburg, where the cult hung out in Fall of 1989, after the murders. They stayed in some trailers, RV's, and a barn on a relative's property (per Pete Earley's book, "The Prophet of Death"). There's a comment in the Mohler probable cause document which describes an event:

http://www.fox4kc.com/wdaf-mohler-mother-aware-of-rapes-111909,0,2906638.story

"In another incident, two victims stated they were playing at their grandfather's farm in Lafayette County, Mo., when someone said, "gypsies are in town." The girls were then taken by their father and uncle Roland to a location where several vans and RVs were parked. The girls were then placed inside a brown van where they were again raped by their father and uncle. The rapes stopped when someone pounded on the door and asked if everything was okay."

To be clear, I've read this passage numerous times on this news source but never located it in the actual Probable Cause docs. I did find it here, though:

http://www.netgrace.org/content/images/Nov 20, 2009.pdf



I wonder if this reporter was reading WS? I noticed the story of the Jeff Lundgren angle broke the morning after we discussed it.

WHOA! Maybe they do read. Lord forbid my friend would see this. She's alsways saying I should open up a Private I-Yi-Yi business.:doh:

Wondering how the little baby girl is?

Admittedly this is an interesting case. No excuse or reason, but maybe a person would smoke a ton of meth with this in their background? Y a never know.

 

[kbl8201]

you know, victims respond diffrentely. some would never hurt a child or anyone cause of what was done to them.
some become self destructive but still would do no harm to others.

and then others chose to go from abused to abuser. and that's the group i have zero respect for, and there is no excuse for what this did and i hate that this thread is turning into a psycho anaylsis of a junkie baby beater

 

[Filly]

there is no excuse for what this did and i hate that this thread is turning into a psycho anaylsis of a junkie baby beater

You're right, K. You are. I can only speak for myself, but I find it interesting the connection. It's my fault for even bringing it up. It certainly doesn't help the victim. The poor little baby.

BTW he's not a "junkie". That's reserved for heroin addicts. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[kbl8201]

im just angry and upset and im so depressed reading all these threads about dead or maimed babies im now going to caylee's board and telling her to welcome her little friends when they get there.

maybe i need a break from here

 

[Texas Mist]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=427873

Alleged child abuser had cult murderer father

CAMDEN COUNTY, MO. -- The man, who police say confessed to throwing his 3-month old girl across the room, breaking her skull, has a notorious father who was executed for killing five people.

"Caleb Lundgren, 29, of Linn Creek, Mo., told investigators he was high on meth when he threw the infant 5-feet towards a baby swing. He also told investigators that in another instance the infant fell to the kitchen floor from a bar stool when he turned away to smoke meth.

The Camden County Health Department's birth records confirm Caleb's father is Jeffrey Lundgren.

<snip>

I wonder if this reporter was reading WS? I noticed the story of the Jeff Lundgren angle broke the morning after we discussed it.

Respectfully snipped --

I sent them a "tip" via their site (http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/about/submit_news_tip.aspx) early in the evening of the 9th-- I wonder if other folks did too.

I'm glad they followed up & confirmed what you already sleuthed out.

 

[Missizzy]

kbl--I agree that the focus needs to be on the baby girl. The newest report we have is:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=427873

"Caleb's daughter is still listed in serious condition in the neonatal intensive care unit at University Hospital in Columbia but is "slowly improving" according to investigators."

The reason I brought up the issue of Caleb's parentage is that there is a strong correlation between early abuse and exposure to violence and later criminal behavior. So many of the precious infants and young children which we celebrate being "rescued" will sadly go on to have broken lives. When your hard-wiring is off due to sertonin and adrenal misfires (from exposure to trauma), one can't always pull one's self up by the bootstraps and be a decent human being. This is why I scream and yell all the time about early intervention and birth control. Some people need to be sanctioned forever for everyone's safety and many should not have children. I don't know, however, to pull that off while still protecting constitutional rights. Do you?

I am not excusing or rationalizing this guy's crime but what did anybody expect? Personally, I think that this is a generational issue as Jeffrey had some serious issues early in life. There was evidence that he'd been horribly physically abused and he got caught mutilating animals. People can be born predisposed to criminality and then, when exposed to further trauma, it's almost a done deal. And then, there's the rare person who literally shocked everyone by coming out of a horrific childhood and rising above. I applaud them and wish I knew what went right for them.

You seem to look forward towards healing for the children and punishment for their offenders. I tend to be looking in the past to see what we should have done differently. But we're on the same page.

 

[kbl8201]

the way you put it makes it sound like anyone that has been abused, molested, or the like, is a time bomb waiting to happen and should be stopped before they become the same thing.

that is not what i believe. i believe we make choices, we dont beomce what our parents make us, we become what we decide to be.

i find it insulting to anyone that's ever been abused (and i know people who have) to insinuate there rights should be stomped on for what was done to them, something that wasnt there fault in the first place. i know your gonna say thats not what your saying, but thats the way im reading it.

i dont think were even in the same library on this one

 

[kbl8201]

ok i just reread that again to make sure i didnt blow it out of proportion.

no, i didnt

how do you sacntion people for something that they havent done? should i be sanctioned and not allowed to have kids cause my grandmother was mentally and emotionally abusive to me for years?

im just curious......actually im furious. i dont get those comments at all

 

[kbl8201]

if people go from the abused to the abuser, its cause thats why they are, not what they were made.
someone who is beaten as a child only beats his/her own kids cause they have it in there nature to do so.
someone who was molested as a child only becomes a molester cause thats what they were in the first place.

but you cant pick and choose and say 'well we have to stop them before it happens' cause there's no way you can sit and play god and say 'this person will be, this one wont'. and last i checked, this is still america, where you have the right to live without fear of persecution for things that arent your fault.


someone could go thru years of therapy and still be a monster.......someone can never get a second of therapy and be a great person .

should we lock the little girl on the feeding tube for life up cause if she somehow manages to have kids she'll instantly be abusive? should these kids being rescued from kiddie *advertiser censored* and parentel molesters be civilly commited, today?

 

[kbl8201]

and what about all the baby beaters and child molesters who WERNT abused themselves? whats there excuse?

i have a friend who was raped repeatedly by her moms boyfriend when she was a teenager. she now has 4 kids of her own, who she'd never for a second think about hurting.

should she have been 'sanctioned?'

we wonder today, why victims of physical abuse and rape or molestation dont come forward. why would ANYONE Come foward if they know they'd be 'sanctioned' for being a victim? isnt the humiliation, pain, embararsment, and everythingelse that goes with it bad enough?

 

[Missizzy]

kbl--I'm very sorry you are furious with my statements. I stand by them, however. As you know, I happen to hold very near and dear some tremendously damaged, broken, and abused children. I've walked this path a long long time. But I am a realist.

Here's my position. When a infant has been compromised in some way--prenatal exposure to drugs and/alcohol/violence, abject emotional or nutritional neglect during the formative years, abuse and/or exposure to violence while the child is still preverbal, lack of attachment to the caregiver, physical or mental illness or defect--that child's hard-wiring will be different. Very commonly they will not see the world the way you and I do. They often lack empathy, don't experience pain in a normal way, act out in ways by placing their needs/wants above others, and lack the understanding of natural and logical circumstances. Please note that I am talking about extremely young children here. It is known that the most vulnerable time of a child's life for brain development is the prenatal and postnatal/pre-verbal timeframe.

These babies and toddlers are essentially cut of at the knees IMO. They have an uphill battle to fight. If they are fortunate enough to have some sort of support system (such as another relative or day care provider) or to be removed from the toxic environment they live in, they have a much greater chance at happiness and success in this world. Up to a certain point (different with each child), the rig can be turned around.

Please understand that I am not in any way talking about a beloved and healthy child who has the misfortune to experience trauma or abuse. Many children experience the most horrific events and go on to be happy, fabulous people. That can be directly traced back to the fact that their hard-wiring was already in tact and they had established themselves in this world as a worthwhile person. They have a wound but their basic core is strong.

A young boy could suffer from years of emotional, sexual, verbal, or physical abuse at the hand of a parent. However, if he was born a healthy infant and surrounded by love and protection in his first few years, he will be strong. He will suffer from the abuse. Scars will be left. However, he will most likely seek out support from another loved one (often a silbling or the other parent) or someone out of the family (a teacher, clergy, neighbor). He will be wounded but he won't be broken. We will have some tools to protect his heart and his psyche. He will have an ego and developed conscience that will help him heal and move on.

If on the other hand, a little guy is born horribly compromised (as I described above) and continues to suffer from abuse or neglect throughout his early years, he has no bootstraps by which to pull himself up. Very likely he will flounder and turn inward and suffer depression or self harm or turn his pain outward and begin to harm others.

In my mind, about 80% of who we are is what you see in the birthing room. I come down very strongly in the nature vs. nurture argument on the side of nature. This is not the statement I would have made 20 years ago. I say this after raising 16 children and somewhere around 50 dogs (yes, I've learned much about the brain by watching dogs).

There's always going to be an exception to the rule, of course. You'll find a child who has literally been born with a silver spoon in her mouth who strikes out at others and has no empathy. My take on this girl would be that she's got some sort of chemical difference in her brain. You can also find the child plucked from a war zone who has suffered prematurity, sexual abuse, and starvation who goes on to become a leader and a kind and giving man. That's what we call a miracle. You'll note that our society has a tendency to recognize those people.

I, in no way am calling for children who have been compromised early in life to be sanctioned or sterilized. Everyone has rights and free will. Everyone deserves a chance. I, in case you hadn't noticed, make an awful lot of noise about reaching out to these children with early intervention programs, parent-training, Head Start (all services that cost our society dearly). I want these children closely watched, as I consider them to be at extremely high risk. I want our schools, churches, and communities to step forward and honestly grasp the philosophy that these are all our children and it does take a village to successfully raise a child. If the village doesn't pay attention, they have no right to complain when these kids turn on those in the village and burn it down. If these at risk children become parents themselves, I want to pay special attention so that we don't end up with a multi-generational problem--a cycle that just keeps repeating.

I believe it all comes back to our genetics and our early experiences. You have no idea how much I want to hope that each little one we read about here on WS survives and flourishes. I've just seen too much pain, too much damage to believe that each time. Of course, I have hope and I pray there will be success. But I also secretly cringe and wonder if we'll be reading about that same abused or damaged infant in 16 yeas when he or she lacks self restraint.

There's no one answer. This is a societal problem that goes back to the beginning of time. If you study child "rescue", family systems, and juvenile delinquency, you'll see that our pendulum swings back and forth every twenty years or so. You'll note that DHS is constantly re-inventing itself as nothing seems to really "fix" the problem. We can't even seem to get it "right" with our prisons concerning rehabilitation vs. punishment. As you've pointed out, there are exceptions to every rule. But talking about these issues here on WS and forming our own viewpoints in important. We each need to look at the situation presented to us and figure out where we come into the big picture. What can we do to help these children? What role do we play in the village?

Please don't be furious. Get involved with something involving children, teens or crime in general and make some change. It's messy, heart wrenching work but you can never say you didn't try.

(((hugs))) as always

 

[songline]

This is a million dollar topic and if only there was one answer there sure would be a remedy.

Many variables are true and I agree with both Kbl and MissIzzy.
It is true that if a child has known only abuse from early on - that child is more then likely going to become an abuser, because of all the rage that exists in them, and because of all the times they felt helpless against the adult.
But if there was one person who did show that child love, compassion, and understanding it is very possible that child may have very deep feeling of understanding how that may feel and not want to do anything to harm anyone.

It is also true that Choices one makes to heal - are the most powerful of all.

Then there is also the question of chemistry...Yes it does play a part in the human spirit. As I know for sure, mental imbalance is now showing up on my ex husbands side of the family in many of the cousins.

IT IS NOT FAIR to diagnose anyone unless you have met them. It is fair to use the knowledge you have from past to express your view BUT NOT AS absolute. because one variation can change the entire scenario.
It is not fair to defend abusers, as they are sick and they do not know better, they need to be re mended somewhere where they can not harm anyone.
It it is not fair to project anything because of a persons personal experience because it is not one fix fits all.

When it comes to mental illness, and or abusers there is NO one fix fits all.
There are only variations. and the sick need to be re mended where they can not longer harm another person.
JMHO

Having said all of this my parents were concentration camp survivors and their idea of love was to be exceedingly strict, o course, we did not get that it is love, of course, we felt abuse. and of course my parents have already suffered enough (May they RIP) so again that is another scenario different but still part of how we all view abuse, love, insane etc......

 

[kbl8201]

mz iz, even in your personal situation, your children reacted diffrently, as you have discussed here many times.

i just find it very dangerous to lump people together, even if they are disabled, even if they dont have anyone that loves them.

people might have the greatest support system in the world and still become a monster.

the sad reality is you never know what a person might be capable of until they do it,

((((mz iz)))

 

[kbl8201]

This is a million dollar topic and if only there was one answer there sure would be a remedy.

Many variables are true and I agree with both Kbl and MissIzzy.
It is true that if a child has known only abuse from early on - that child is more then likely going to become an abuser, because of all the rage that exists in them, and because of all the times they felt helpless against the adult.
But if there was one person who did show that child love, compassion, and understanding it is very possible that child may have very deep feeling of understanding how that may feel and not want to do anything to harm anyone.

It is also true that Choices one makes to heal - are the most powerful of all.

Then there is also the question of chemistry...Yes it does play a part in the human spirit. As I know for sure, mental imbalance is now showing up on my ex husbands side of the family in many of the cousins.

IT IS NOT FAIR to diagnose anyone unless you have met them. It is fair to use the knowledge you have from past to express your view BUT NOT AS absolute. because one variation can change the entire scenario.
It is not fair to defend abusers, as they are sick and they do not know better, they need to be re mended somewhere where they can not harm anyone.
It it is not fair to project anything because of a persons personal experience because it is not one fix fits all.

When it comes to mental illness, and or abusers there is NO one fix fits all.
There are only variations. and the sick need to be re mended where they can not longer harm another person.
JMHO

Having said all of this my parents were concentration camp survivors and their idea of love was to be exceedingly strict, o course, we did not get that it is love, of course, we felt abuse. and of course my parents have already suffered enough (May they RIP) so again that is another scenario different but still part of how we all view abuse, love, insane etc......

thanks for your input song

 

[Missizzy]

kbl--As difficult as knowing you are upset is for me, I'm so pleased that we can debate this. Please know that I'm not trying to come off as some sanctimonious know-it-all as I don't know half of anything. I might act like I do but I'm making it up as I go along. Aren't we all?

You win some, you lose some. Some of us fail, some succeed. Most of us struggle in some way. My life has been stuffed full of laughter and tears. I deal with reality every single day. A long time ago, I decided to give up on the what ifs and deal with what we've been handed. One foot in front of the other. Second chances. Getting tough but never giving up hope. You know through personal communication that I have some deep losses. You also know I have some incredible successes. Both experiences have taught me so much.

I think the one place you and I are not communicating well is when I talk about prenatal damage and pre-verbal damage. I'd really like you to do some research on that. This is the reason that I made the "not so very kind" statements about Caleb. Caleb did not ask for a monster for a father but he drew the short straw. You and I have no idea what other stressors or blessings he had in his life. We don't know why he started using meth (and you are right, that's a choice). I'm still not surprised by the outcome of the baby girl being hurt. I'm sad but I'm not surprised. Could he have made better choices? I'd like to say, "sure". But I'm not sure. I'm very afraid that Caleb and many others like Caleb (bless their souls) can't control themselves and temper their actions the way you and I can. That's when a person must be sanctioned with a loss of privileges or locked up.

Could we, as a society have done more for that little girl, proactively? I think so but it would cost a lot of money and take a lot of energy. We have to be willing to spend it up front. We'd have to be willing to keep our eyes on those who struggle and are at-risk. Does that infringe upon our rights? It might. I'm not certain and I doubt any of us are. We don't get the option of reeling time backward and starting again, though. You notice that, here on WS, we almost always respond to child abuse or violence in the same way. We send prayers and healing thoughts first and then we set about dissecting the crime and trying to determine what failed.

I have a feeling that what got you most upset is in thinking that I wanted to throw in the towel on all abused, neglected and hurt people. That is the farthest thing from the truth. I surround myself with those people. And I don't pity these people, I love them and I live with them. I know their gifts and their shortcomings. Their stories are not written yet as they are still young and they continually surprise me just when I'm ready to give up hope.

You've shared with us that you were emotionally abused. That breaks my heart as I parent a lovely 15 year old survivor of tremendous emotional abuse. I've seen the pain in her eyes. I've watched fear flicker there when I even gently corrected her. I've never seen your face but for some reason she reminds me of you. She's got spirit and she's going to make it. I know it in my heart.

And look at you. You are compassionate, passionate, you speak up and out. I'll never forget the day you were the first to find your voice when we had a mean and nasty poster break onto a thread and try to shout us down as we were speaking of delicate and painful topics. You were bold and I admired you so much in that moment. That proves that you've risen above the abuse. You will be one of the fathers or uncles who never yell or demean as you know all too well the hurt.

I'll never give up looking for solutions...ways to make things better. I'm a fixer. I want to not only be the one to mop up the mess but I'd like to figure out a way to keep the mess from happening again and again.

And you are so right in that no one knows what someone is capable of, good or bad, until they do it.

(((hugs always)))

 

[not_my_kids]

I have said this before. I am of the view that every single abuse victim is affected by their abuse. there is no such thing as getting over it.Yes, every abuse victim is, to some extent, a time bomb. HOWEVER, they also choose their path every single day.

I was raised in an abusive home. For this reason, I am aware of several things:
I can cause harm.
If I caused harm, I have a ready made excuse.
If I consider my actions and reactions, I will be aware of the choice to do harm.
Faced with the choice, due to my personality, I will choose not to do harm.

In other words, being trained by fear and violence, I learned that fear and violence cause results. Being a victim of it, I learned that there are other options that do not cause as much damage, but still give the same results. Due to my personality, I do not wish to cause anyone harm, so I don't. But the only reason that I don't is because I consider my options and I make active choices all the time.

Someone with out the capabilities to do this constant decision making to counteract the things that trauma taught them are likely to become lethal. In this case, it manifested in the form of child abuse. Other people it may have manifested as drug abuse without the child abuse, or road rage, or serial murder, or malicious gossip. The personality balances the trauma. How much depends on the personality.

JMO.

 

[kbl8201]

thanks for kind words mz iz .

but i mean what are we saying here, lets take this case individually. are we saying that this 2 month old girl, who cant even crawl, let alone walk or talk, is ruined cause of the scum that has been around her since before she was born? i cannot think that way. i refuse to think that way. lets say she makes a full physical recovery. lets pray she has someone there to lift her up emotionally.....

hugs

 

[Missizzy]

NMK--Your response humbles me as I admire you greatly. I would hazard a guess, however, that you were born whole and healthy. That someone, somewhere taught you right from wrong and shined a light on the path that you chose to take. That you gain joy and pride from staying on that path. That you gain validation for choosing right over wrong.

If I could have a dream come true, I'd sit with all of you at a table and bask in the light of being with others that "know".

Thank you for adding your words. You give me so much hope.