MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[imstilla.grandma]

The department is still waiting on a ruling on the cause of death from Frontier Forensics, Gonzalez said. It's a private company that provides autopsy services for numerous counties across Kansas and Missouri.

"They are an entirely separate entity from the police department, so we have zero impact on the timeline of their medical findings," Gonzalez wrote. "We have been notified it could be as much as an additional six or more weeks to receive the toxicology reports."

Mystery surrounding 3 Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead outside man's home leads to accusations from victim's family

Authorities still haven't said how Ricky Johnson, Clayton McGeeney and David Harrington died, but police said they have no evidence of foul play.

www.cbsnews.com

*eta: The Kansas City Police Department previously confirmed that a fiancé of one of the men went looking for him and called the police when she saw him dead on Willis’ back porch. Family members later said it was McGeeney’s fiancé who made the discovery.

Police told PEOPLE that after responding to her call, they confirmed they found a dead body. "Upon further investigation, officers located two other dead bodies in the backyard," a KCPD spokesperson said.

Police Say There’s Still No Evidence of Foul Play in Mysterious Deaths of 3 Chiefs Fans

The Kansas City Police Department reiterated Saturday that there are still no signs of foul play after three Chiefs fans were mysteriously found dead at a friend's house earlier this month.

people.com

*If she saw only one man and didn’t report the others, what does that say a out the special logistics of the three men?

 

[Sundog]

Ihttps://www.fox13seattle.com/news/kansas-city-chiefs-fans-deaths-drugs-weather-conditions-experts

Some theories in this Fox13 Seattle article on what could have transpired if recreational or other drugs were involved and were laced with fentanyl. Just theories, but what the outcomes could have been for those who took the drugs and went outside in the cold temps and the possible difference for the person who stayed inside the warm house if he, too, took the same drug.

"Powdered fentanyl can be mixed with drugs like heroin, methamphetamine and cocaine or pressed into pills that look like prescription opioids. Police in Alabama, Illinois, Louisiana and New York have reported finding the synthetic opioid in marijuana.

 

[Waffle]

I use Fentanyl (UK) and am a long term user 37mcgs. My directions inside the packet quite catergorically say: do not use heat where the patch is affixed, do no have a hot bath, do not use a hot shower, do not sun bathe. I just wonder did you have those guidelines at all? Also no alcohol, do not mix Fentanyl with other drugs. I beg to differ I think Fentanyl is a good drug used wisely in accordance with the makers and doctors directions. JMO

Here's the NWS data for Kansas City, MO for January 7:

Kansas City, MO Weather History | Weather Underground

(scroll down for hour by hour data - coldest that afternoon/evening of the 7th as 32F (and that was at midnight - the rest of the afternoon/evening it was 33-37F).

And here's the data for the next day (check out 2 am). It was 33F at 2 am:

Kansas City, MO Weather History | Weather Underground

That's 6 degrees F warmer than 27F, which is why I mention it. The temperature never got to 27 on either the 7th or the 8th during night time hours.

On the 9th, it does get colder. That's the day the frozen bodies were found. Surely they had been out there since after midnight on Sunday (so, early on the 8th).

I mention this because it needs to be 32F or colder for the bodies to be frozen. People obviously die of hypothermia at temperatures far warmer, but having an actual frozen body (as reported in the DM) means colder temperatures. I just want to have the two components separated (how cold it was when the three men apparently went outside vs. how cold it was after they were deceased).

33F is plenty cold - odd that one man apparently didn't take his jacket, plausible that he thought he was only going outside for a quick smoke. 28F is the lowest temp recorded for January 7 - but that's early in the morning, way before the game. From game time onward to midnight, the temps were 37F (around kick-off, Kansas City time) to 32F at midnight. Most of the evening, it was 33-34F - if the men were going in and out of the back yard to smoke (for example), they would have experienced dropping temperatures - not as quickly as if it were 27F though. If they had alcohol on board, they may have perceived those temperatures as warmer (while their bodies' responses to alcohol would have caused them to be more quickly hypothermic). If they did sit in chairs, the lessened mobility would speed up the hypothermia.

Temps of below 32F can cause death by hypothermia in as little as 15 minutes (with each degree of temperature drop speeding that up). If it had really been 27F early AM on January 8, and they were using alcohol - 5-10 minutes would have been enough with major hypothermia symptoms coming on almost immediately (even if they didn't notice).

Dr. Jeff Hersh: The cold, hard facts about hypothermia

Q: Do people really freeze to death? A: Almost 1,000 Americans get hypothermic and die every year; although only in extreme circumstances does their body subsequently freeze. The very old, very young…

www.sj-r.com

The times given in that article are without alcohol. I just want to keep the variables straight in my mind.

Certain drugs also make you feel warmer, if they had taken something like cocaine as well as drinking it might explain why they were outside / one didn't put his jacket on

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Certain drugs also make you feel warmer, if they had taken something like cocaine as well as drinking it might explain why they were outside / one didn't put his jacket on

Some drugs, such as opioids, also depress the respiratory system. So an overdose can make a person feel breathless, causing them to go outside to get fresh air.

IMO it's *possible* that they were just drunk and passed out in the cold; if it was just one person I'd believe that with ease. But all three dying in that manner is something I'm struggling to believe. It would have to be the most unlucky sequence of events for all three to die that way just from drinking.

 

[MeAndYouOutThere]

Some drugs, such as opioids, also depress the respiratory system. So an overdose can make a person feel breathless, causing them to go outside to get fresh air.

IMO it's *possible* that they were just drunk and passed out in the cold; if it was just one person I'd believe that with ease. But all three dying in that manner is something I'm struggling to believe. It would have to be the most unlucky sequence of events for all three to die that way just from drinking.

exactly...one individual is possible but 3 at the same time....hmmmm it don't pass the smell test

 

[Kingsley]

Not research and academic employers. It's normal. A researcher spends most of their time alone - and not having to give them an on-campus office is just a bonus.

My own employer (college) would not sound the alarm if I was "gone" for two months (because almost all the work I do is...online; I have LE friends who mostly work online too; and in other professions).

He didn't miss any days of work because he was online (engaged or not - research takes hours and HOURS of what I would suppose can be considered uninterrupted passive research).

IMO. Lots of backtracking and "empty head space" involved in actual scientific research, IMO. Not empty at all, of course.
IMO.

Adding to this:
From my own experience when working technical projects from home, we usually have discord or skype open and can quickly see if someone is logged in if you need to message or voice or contact them. If hours are flexible we just leave a group message that we'll starting work late or out in the afternoon for an appointment or whatever. It is only if someone is totally not "present" for a few days or miss an "all-hands" that they're messagedasked if everything is fine.
Many times however I never see people in person at all. Just fyi on my experience working loosely with others from home in case it is helpful.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

Adding to this:
From my own experience when working technical projects from home, we usually have discord or skype open and can quickly see if someone is logged in if you need to message or voice or contact them. If hours are flexible we just leave a group message that we'll starting work late or out in the afternoon for an appointment or whatever. It is only if someone is totally not "present" for a few days or miss an "all-hands" that they're messagedasked if everything is fine.
Many times however I never see people in person at all. Just fyi on my experience working loosely with others from home in case it is helpful.

Was JW working though? That's the question, isn't it. Was he passed out in his bedroom for 2 days leaving "sporadically"? Or was he working and getting something to eat from the kitchen etc - the things that one does when they work from home?

 

[SMK777]

Some drugs, such as opioids, also depress the respiratory system. So an overdose can make a person feel breathless, causing them to go outside to get fresh air.

IMO it's *possible* that they were just drunk and passed out in the cold; if it was just one person I'd believe that with ease. But all three dying in that manner is something I'm struggling to believe. It would have to be the most unlucky sequence of events for all three to die that way just from drinking.

Exactly. But not surprising with fentanyl.

 

[Forest_Wood]

i've never felt that they froze to death (all 3 men succumbing to hypothermia in 30 degree weather is far-fetched IMO)

Thank you. I agree!
All 3 of them succumbing to hypothermia around the same time in 30 degree weather is far-fetched.
Something incapacitated them at around the same time, then they froze from being so long outside in freezing temps under a slight blanket of snow. The tox report will surely determine which came first. MOO.

 

[SMK777]

Thank you. I agree!
All 3 of them succumbing to hypothermia around the same time in 30 degree weather is far-fetched.
Something incapacitated them at around the same time, then they froze from being so long outside in freezing temps under a slight blanket of snow. The tox report will surely determine which came first. MOO.

The most logical is fentanyl causing rapid coma and then hypothermia. I hope we hear soon.

 

[arielilane]

@alcaprari23

Just landed in Kansas City. I'm investigating what happened to the three men who mysteriously died in their friend's backyard following Kansas City Chiefs football game. KCPD is not providing many answers as we wait for toxicology reports. Not sure what I'll dig up, but I'm going to try to find some answers.


12:16 PM · Jan 29, 2024

 

[sunshineray]

The department is still waiting on a ruling on the cause of death from Frontier Forensics, Gonzalez said. It's a private company that provides autopsy services for numerous counties across Kansas and Missouri.

"They are an entirely separate entity from the police department, so we have zero impact on the timeline of their medical findings," Gonzalez wrote. "We have been notified it could be as much as an additional six or more weeks to receive the toxicology reports."

Mystery surrounding 3 Kansas City Chiefs fans found dead outside man's home leads to accusations from victim's family

Authorities still haven't said how Ricky Johnson, Clayton McGeeney and David Harrington died, but police said they have no evidence of foul play.

www.cbsnews.com

*eta: The Kansas City Police Department previously confirmed that a fiancé of one of the men went looking for him and called the police when she saw him dead on Willis’ back porch. Family members later said it was McGeeney’s fiancé who made the discovery.

Police told PEOPLE that after responding to her call, they confirmed they found a dead body. "Upon further investigation, officers located two other dead bodies in the backyard," a KCPD spokesperson said.

Police Say There’s Still No Evidence of Foul Play in Mysterious Deaths of 3 Chiefs Fans

The Kansas City Police Department reiterated Saturday that there are still no signs of foul play after three Chiefs fans were mysteriously found dead at a friend's house earlier this month.

people.com

*If she saw only one man and didn’t report the others, what does that say a out the special logistics of the three men?

The man she saw was on the flagstone, whether laying on it or sitting in one of those chairs. It was not her fiance. The other two must have been on the ground a good distance away. The yard is quite a big area.

 

[10ofRods]

I haven't read the whole thread, but wouldn't a tox screen tell us if they were drunk or on drugs that killed them? This whole story is weird, it just doesn't make sense to me. I will be curious to see how this ends up. i looked at the picture of the porch area, and they could have just kicked in the window to get in if they were in distress. I don't think that is where they died, outside... JMO I don't know what happened but none of this makes sense to me.

Yes, a tox screen would show that. And in the US, the average time for a tox screen is 4-6 weeks. It can be even longer. MO doesn't, IMO, have a reputation for super rapid toxicology results.

I think they died outside. Unfortunately, people combining alcohol and very cold weather run that risk, especially if sitting down. I think we all agree that they did not experience acute distress. Death from hypothermia can have paradoxical elements to it, and alcohol is the wild card here.

IMO

 

[Frostysucker]

LE Welfare Checks. Warrant?

@darring21 Paraphrasing ^, a phone call for a welfare check does not necessarily allow LE to enter home without owner's permission or make forced entry. There must be more, like a fire or an audible/visible fight, something indicating exigent circumstances. Or????

IF LE arrived ~ ten min after friend stopped pounding on door (per FB posts by fiancee or friend, or am I misremembering?), could LE have secured a WARRANT to conduct a search at this house? DId they?

IF so, that's a snappy, speedy-fast, lightning-quick warrant.

IF so, did the fiancee call in info which provided probable cause for a warrant, allowing LE to force entry to house?
Or did Friend #5 phone LE w info leading to a warrant?
Or someone else?

What info would justify a warrant to force entry in this case?
(Not saying they did use force, as JW admitted LE into house.)

A call on Tues. 9 or 10-ish w caller saying something like - I heard that John Doe dropped off ___ (drugs?) at ___ address on Sun. evening, and people who were there have not been heard from since then, despite repeated calls, texts, messages from fam & friends. Maybe. Maybe not. IDK.

What other info could have triggered issuance of a warrant?

Not saying any drugs were CoD or a factor in this tragedy.

In this case there was a 'witness' ..someone on scene that found a dead body, as well as a dead body also on scene. I think that's enough..
Could go even further and explain that it wasn't their residence, the people were younger than most natural causes of death, and the fact that the vehicles of the people are there as well (while they were all missing and one found dead)
I don't think a warrant was exactly necessary in this case..

However I think I understand what you are getting at, correct me if I'm wrong..
So, if a welfare check has the purpose of checking to see if someone is alive and ok - more or less..and say Noone answers the door..typically there would be a response by LE that says they can't enter without a warrant (making a welfare check pointless almost).
Then you need reason for warrant. And I think this could be anything almost, for example piled up mail, or some other indication that normal goings-on have been neglected lately.
So in this case.. if we put the body being found aside and say that LE shows up and Noone had entered and they saw nothing that seems out of the normal.. then I think there's reason enough that multiple people (even ones having families n kids, jobs, etc.) Are all missing and Noone had heard from them when they would probly normally be home and at work, yet their vehicles are there. I think that is enough or very close to enough.
There is also Noone answering calls or messages from the 3 missing, nor the person renting the home.
Now with that added, there should be enough for a warrant.
All they need is a reason to believe someone is in danger, hurt, or unable to get to a phone.
They have 4 people seemingly unresponsive at one location for a length of time. 3 of which don't even live there. Work is being missed.. etc. Those are pretty good signs that something is wrong, I think that would be reason to believe..
I dont think they really need much to get a warrant for that.
*Also, the homeowner or landlord could potentially let them in as well, no warrant necessary.

 

[sunshineray]

The fiance said, she sent FB messenger and #5 did the same on Tues, through his attorney.

Not one family member has publicly stated they called JW. They have not stated why the men were not reported missing Sun-Tues night. A missing person report for three individual would certainly warrant investigation. Missouri has no waiting period to report a missing person. I posted earlier in thread.

JWs home was searched, phone turned over and interviewed at the police station, all without an attorney.

JWs attorney confirmed the message from #5 and the fiance and that JW had not used his phone and did not see the messages.

FB messages do not show up in my feed. I have my account set to friends only, so I never see those that are not friends.
Moo

I found where I read about the families saying JW ignored emails, texts, calls and Facebook messages sent to him.

"The victims’ families contend that Mr. Willis had ignored emails, calls, texts, Facebook messages and knocks at the door..."

JW's lawyer's denial of this is also included in this article...so back yet again to the question, what to believe?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/jan/24/jordan-willis-says-he-didnt-know-his-three-friends/

 

[10ofRods]

About the only thing I really believe, except for things that have been proven (the guys who died), is that JW (at some point) fell very soundly asleep. The couch thing comes from someone saying he fell asleep on his couch. But, he could have relocated to his bedroom at any time.

Every half-way normal explanation works perfectly fine for one guy, but three guys? Two of whom worked in construction which involves climbing and (usually) being outside.

As for drinking, most drunks want to be in their cars. That's why the whole "take their keys away" PSAs started. I have actually known people try to start their car with their house keys. Then fall asleep in the (parked) car. I was in a fraternity. I don't know anyone who would do that now, but still. If JW was asleep and there was nothing to do but watch Jeopardy, the mystery is how none of them were in a car.

Is it possible to check stomach contents on a frozen person?

Yes. A lot of forensic evidence is preserved in cold and freezing conditions.

I think all three "fell asleep" (from their pov - they may have instead been experiencing effects of some toxin, probably alcohol). It's very hard waiting. Most street drugs would leave paraphernelia/bags etc nearby and LE seems to be signalling there's no sign of that.

I think it's possible that everyone knew that a lot of drinking had been done and that no one should be behind the wheel - it's pretty drilled into people these days. I figure they may have been trying to sober/wake themselves up by sitting in the chilly backyard. This small theory presumes they had stopped drinking just a little earlier - but one could also have the theory that they were still drinking in the backyard (finding empty beverage containers would not be a sign of foul play). They could have been drinking steadily up until the time they went into the backyard (in which case, BAC would continue to go up for as long as an hour or two).

There's a significant buy-in to the (false) popular belief that cold showers or going out into the cold "sobers up" a person. It may make them as aware as they're going to be - but it won't change their BAC levels. Many, many people think that unconsciousness (passing out) due to drinking is similar to falling asleep normally, but the two states are very different, brain-wise. And even non-drinking people who try to sleep in the cold will not always be roused by cold in the middle of a sleep cycle - many variables there. One early symptom of hypothermia is, paradoxically, feeling warm (so people who wake up in their tents at 15F or 25F temperatures may groggily observe that they "feel warm" and just go back to sleep). One needs a very, very good sleeping bag in those circumstances. Being in a car or tent is only protection against windchill, IMO. None of the outdoor options was particularly good that evening (from the POV of onset of hypothermia - which could have happened fairly quickly, depending on BAC).

IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

Yes. A lot of forensic evidence is preserved in cold and freezing conditions.

I think all three "fell asleep" (from their pov - they may have instead been experiencing effects of some toxin, probably alcohol). It's very hard waiting. Most street drugs would leave paraphernelia/bags etc nearby and LE seems to be signalling there's no sign of that.

I think it's possible that everyone knew that a lot of drinking had been done and that no one should be behind the wheel - it's pretty drilled into people these days. I figure they may have been trying to sober/wake themselves up by sitting in the chilly backyard. This small theory presumes they had stopped drinking just a little earlier - but one could also have the theory that they were still drinking in the backyard (finding empty beverage containers would not be a sign of foul play). They could have been drinking steadily up until the time they went into the backyard (in which case, BAC would continue to go up for as long as an hour or two).

There's a significant buy-in to the (false) popular belief that cold showers or going out into the cold "sobers up" a person. It may make them as aware as they're going to be - but it won't change their BAC levels. Many, many people think that unconsciousness (passing out) due to drinking is similar to falling asleep normally, but the two states are very different, brain-wise. And even non-drinking people who try to sleep in the cold will not always be roused by cold in the middle of a sleep cycle - many variables there. One early symptom of hypothermia is, paradoxically, feeling warm (so people who wake up in their tents at 15F or 25F temperatures may groggily observe that they "feel warm" and just go back to sleep). One needs a very, very good sleeping bag in those circumstances. Being in a car or tent is only protection against windchill, IMO. None of the outdoor options was particularly good that evening (from the POV of onset of hypothermia - which could have happened fairly quickly, depending on BAC).

IMO.

Snipped by me for focus

"Most street drugs would leave paraphernelia/bags etc nearby and LE seems to be signalling there's no sign of that."

To be fair, there were two whole days for someone, if they so desired, to pick up anything left outside and dispose of it.

 

[arielilane]

Of course the autopsy and toxicology reports are extremely important concerning the deaths, but so is the technology - the electronics will also be key to the case.

What happened and what were all their movements prior to the deaths of the young men will be of interest to the investigators despite what is being said about the renter not responding to knocks at the door, text messages, and so on...

Curious to know if the show Jeopardy was actually played that night/morning.

Technology doesn't lie, and it will be interesting to see (if the information is even made public) their footstep activity made in the house... who left the house, and at what time, did anyone come back to the house, were there any attempts to get back in the house?

Where did the men mainly hang out together during their gathering?

What did neighbors’ surveillance cameras reveal?

idk, my thoughts, only....

 

[darring21]

I haven't watched that particular video you linked. I tried to post the link for the video I watched but it keeps linking to Banfield's main page. Banfield

I agree that if someone is to blame, I hope that person gets charged. The families (and society) deserves to have justice.

Initially, I was leaning toward #5 being the supplier, however, some of the families are speaking quite highly of him and are pointing fingers at JW, although they can't seem to put their finger on just what he might have done.

It's baffling.

IMO.

Paid??

 

[10ofRods]

I have my phone on silent nearly all the time. I have it set so that three and only three numbers will make my phone ring (two daughters and one husband). I also have iMessage on my computer - and only a few people will show up on my screen, because again, I block unknown messages. Most people I know do the same.

In this way, people who know me can reach me easily (notifications silenced for long periods though, for sleep, for projects).

There is absolutely no evidence that any calls aimed at JW's phone actually reached him. You can't "miss" a call you never receive. I would have to go into my phone settings to see "all recents" to see the dozens of telemarketers that call daily (and I block them individually each time that happens - until another round starts).

iPhone has read receipt. You can turn it on or off. It tells you what time the message was read.

Only if the person reading it has enabled "read receipts" though. I do not use this feature. Having total strangers scrutinize when I read messages is not something I want. No read receipts (ever) from my account - or from any family member's account. We use tapback to let each other know when we've read something.

One cannot turn on or off someone else's read receipts. JW would have had to have his on - nothing that the family members did would produce a read receipt if he had them turned off. They have said, I believe, that they could "see" his read receipts in FB - but that's a different matter. Read receipts on FB are apparently automatic if one doesn't specifically disable them. One family member said they could "see" that JW was reading FB messenger - but that doesn't mean he actually used his eyes to scan the message, just that he opened his Inbox and clicked through messages in order to get rid of the alert badge. When someone reads my message to them on FB, the blue dot next to the message disappears - but I know this doesn't mean they actually processed the message - often, one just scrolls past, looking for parts of conversations that are relevant on that particular day.

OTOH, most people with good social skills would notice if their FB inbox was getting blown up by repeated messages - and read some of them. IMO.