MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[10ofRods]

The counter is only 36 inches high. If you were 4 foot tall, you might not be able to see out, otherwise, you would have a fine view.

I can't see anything too close to the wall that my kitchen window is set in. I can see out further, into a slice of the backyard, but I cannot see what's right below the window nor immediately below and to the left or right of it. My first bit of vision starts about 4-5 feet from the window. That being said, a person in a chair would be sticking up pretty high - but the patio is actually at a right angle to the kitchen window. And that's the chunk I can't see (I can see the ping pong table beyond, but not the dryer that's at a right angle and next to my viewing field. Nor most of the utility shelf next to the dryer.

I'm guessing LE has studied all of this.

I'm also going to mention the phenomenon known as selective attention. We tend to put our eyes into directions and frame what we see there according to previously learned scenarios and principles. None of us expects our friends to still be in the back yard, two days after a party. How long does it take to remove the lenses of selective perception? Good studies show that there's a bell-shaped curve (some people almost always see actual reality; it's about 50/50). You can do the experiment at home (but it's designed to be shown on a large screen in a lab or classroom, so your results will be different from the formal studies). The fact that I've told you that you're taking a selective attention test, btw, negates the results. Try it on your unsuspecting friends and family, have them be at least 10 feet from the screen.

I don't want to completely give this away - but it's fun to try.

IMO.

 

[NCWatcher]

The counter is only 36 inches high. If you were 4 foot tall, you might not be able to see out, otherwise, you would have a fine view.

But it's the angle that's the issue. Standing at the sink, if the blinds were open an adult of normal height could see out into the yard, but I don't think it would be possible to see anything fairly close to the house that's lower down than the bottom of the window. At least I can't from my kitchen window that's above a counter of standard depth and height. I can't see anything lower down that's closer than about 6 feet away. MOO

 

[arielilane]

@JoScottForensic

Mystery Deepens as 4 KC Fans watch game -3 die frozen in backyard while friend sleeps warm inside on Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan … https://iheart.com/podcast/269-body-bags-with-joseph-scot-87375583/episode/mystery-deepens-as-4-kc-fans-watch-game-3-die-frozen-in-backyard-while-friend-sleeps-warm-inside-146576503

https://twitter.com/x/status/1752386038562243024

 

[rleigh123]

Perhaps he does. I am not sure why he'd have to go to a kitchen sink twice a day though. He has other sinks for hand washing and he may not drink tap water. But regardless, we don't know what he did those particular two days. But I doubt he often goes into the sliding door "eating area." People just don't sit alone at tables in dining rooms or even "breakfast nooks" by themselves. A single person who is not into cooking might grab drinks from the frig, microwave a meal, grab snacks...none of those things involve going into the eating area nor do they involve standing at the kitchen sink and looking down at the porch through a relatively high window (a window that appears to have blinds anyway.) Doing those things may not even involve much washing up and when washing is needed, things may be popped into the dishwasher vs the person scrubbing away while standing at the kitchen sink.
MOO

One thing comment boards and social media shows us is how different we all our - and how we tend to think we're not.

In regards to this case, I can understand being sick or in a funk enough to sleep on and off for two days; to ignore calls from all but one or two people; to not look in the backyard or to see cars outside.

And, I go to my kitchen sink maybe a dozen times a day. Getting water and coffee, filling filter pitcher, grabbing a snack and rinsing a dish, etc. I also sit at a nook alone. (And it surprises me to learn that others think that doesn't happen!)

I'm constantly talking back to crime shows when someone says something like, "There were two glasses on the counter, meaning someone else was here."
("But I often grab another glass!")

Maybe I do things out of the norm, but we all do in some ways. Deductive reasoning never works for me . Lol

 

[Vern]

I'm in the miltary so I get enough PT (physical training) at work so don't like to spend my off-time getting more by jumping to conclusions. So, I just conducted a little experiment.

I am 5'8".

I just did a little experiment with my own phone and sideyard.

Photo 1) Photo taken at eye level looking out of my window into the yard - I am standing right in front of the sink. The window and counter are in front of me. Note how the bottom of our little fireplace chimnea is the first visible item in our yard at the bottom of the window.

Photo 2) Actual photo of my covered back porch; note that in photo 1, you can see that I have a covered porch but only because you can see it's roof. There are two chairs and a table on my patio and against the exterior wall. My porch is 5 feet wide.

Photo 3) My back porch then has 1 step down onto a walkway which is on a raised garden that surrounds our home. The walkway is 6 feet long. There is then 2 further steps down and onto the 'patio proper' where the fireplace and furniture sit. Note that the fireplace from the kitchen window photo is well out into the yard (25 feet from the wall of my home where the window is). Yet, it is the closest thing I see when looking through my same-placed window as JW and it's 25 feet away from my actual house. I'm sure I could fit a lot more than three bodies in the 25 feet of space that I simply cannot see between my house and that fireplace chimnea.

Photos 4 & 5) Views from the chair location under the kitchen window - standing and seated.

IMO, it cannot be concluded that JW must have seen any bodies laying about his backyard. For me, rather the opposite - it is entirely plausible that he did not even if staring out his kitchen window.

 

[Waffle]

Oh, it's often longer. And by "out of my house" I mean I've been in the backyard (in more than area of it) and I walked up the block to see a sunset.


I don't think there is a basement. The word was introduced by one of the family members, early on.

I think the person who entered is confused and thinks it's "the basement." Perhaps that's the term they use for first story of a two story house. They would not be alone in that. I was recently part of a discussion (I think it was here on WS) about what "attic" really means. I think it is the Idaho Four thread. I was amazed at how differently both words are used around the English-speaking world. I have to say that I would have considered the first floor of 1122 King Road to be a basement - but maybe it isn't? I don't know the technical definition and I don't know how people around the nation use the word. Basements are not a thing in most of the places I've lived.

There's a picture of a screen removed from a window - so I took that to be the "basement" of the house, because the woman said it was a basement and that she removed a screen. However, I do believe she is mistaken about there being a basement and she entered on the first floor, "went to another part of the house" (the rest of the house) and opened the back door, finding the horrifying sight of a dead body - and someone known to her. This was early on, that she said this, and like anyone, in the aftermath of such a close personal tragedy, the mind races and glitches.

If there is a basement, I can see no evidence of it. You can see the screen on the ground at about 0:18 of this video from the New York Post:

It's the first real time picture of the house, from the front, that I know about.

IMO

This is interesting, I've only ever known attic as the space under the roof - what other meanings are there? Then again I still get confused when I read first floor and it's not upstairs

 

[Arkay]

I can't see anything too close to the wall that my kitchen window is set in. I can see out further, into a slice of the backyard, but I cannot see what's right below the window nor immediately below and to the left or right of it. My first bit of vision starts about 4-5 feet from the window. That being said, a person in a chair would be sticking up pretty high - but the patio is actually at a right angle to the kitchen window. And that's the chunk I can't see (I can see the ping pong table beyond, but not the dryer that's at a right angle and next to my viewing field. Nor most of the utility shelf next to the dryer.

I'm guessing LE has studied all of this.

I'm also going to mention the phenomenon known as selective attention. We tend to put our eyes into directions and frame what we see there according to previously learned scenarios and principles. None of us expects our friends to still be in the back yard, two days after a party. How long does it take to remove the lenses of selective perception? Good studies show that there's a bell-shaped curve (some people almost always see actual reality; it's about 50/50). You can do the experiment at home (but it's designed to be shown on a large screen in a lab or classroom, so your results will be different from the formal studies). The fact that I've told you that you're taking a selective attention test, btw, negates the results. Try it on your unsuspecting friends and family, have them be at least 10 feet from the screen.

I don't want to completely give this away - but it's fun to try.

IMO.

I used to use this to teach my students to be observant of details.

Here’s another one I liked. Nobody ever got this one entirely correct!

It does have bearing on what someone may or may not notice.

 

[arielilane]

• JANUARY 9, 9:00 P.M. Mahoney arrives at Willis' home and after seeing that the vehicles owned by two of the missing men are parked on the street, knocks on the door, according to two friends of the deceased. No one answers the door and there are no other entrances due to the fence that surrounds the backyard of the property, so Mahoney decides to break into the home through a basement window, according to the friends of the deceased. She calls out for Willis once inside the house to no avail, and once on the first floor sees a body on the back porch, according to the two friends. Mahoney then calls police.

Kansas City Timeline: Final Hours of 3 Found Dead at Classmate's Home

Friends and family are not happy with what they say is a lack of information and want to know how Jordan Willis could not have seen the bodies in his backyard, and why he has not spoken with them about what happened the night.

www.insideedition.com

-- If the above (bbm) is correct, it would be interesting to know why JW didn't notice a body on the back porch, before AM (the fiancée) noticed it? Appears she noticed it rather quickly? Was he that out of it, of course until LE came knocking, but by then he already knows about the body. Goodness!

My thoughts.

 

[10ofRods]

In the realtor listing they do mention (and show what appear to be pictures of) a basement:

"Great additional space for entertaining or storage in the finished basement including a full bath."

View attachment 479320

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - ID #2302138 | BEX Realty

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 is a 4 bed, 3 / 1 bath, single-family home in Kansas City Missouri and last sold for $0 on 2021-02-26.

www.bexrealty.com

Could that be a window (black curtains) to the left (can't possibly be a full length window, though, right?) At any rate, I don't see any obvious windows.

 

[10ofRods]

I used to use this to teach my students to be observant of details.

Here’s another one I liked. Nobody ever got this one entirely correct!

It does have bearing on what someone may or may not notice.

That's a great one. And it's part of the course material in criminology (on eyewitness behavior) in at least one university curriculum - very good share!

It's also interesting to read the various responses people gave for why they got the details wrong.

I'm still puzzling over why there's a screen off of window at JW's house in early pictures, lying on the ground. No basement windows showing.

Then, Google and real estate listing photos show more of the house - still no basement windows. There is a basement, however. Don't some basements kind of have an airwell that goes down to a possible window? That's certainly not in the front yard and after Fox4 showed the more recent (apparently snipped from drone) footage, one still cannot see a well or basement windows.

Maybe a sharp-eyed sleuther will find it and red circle it for us?

 

[darring21]

But it's the angle that's the issue. Standing at the sink, if the blinds were open an adult of normal height could see out into the yard, but I don't think it would be possible to see anything fairly close to the house that's lower down than the bottom of the window. At least I can't from my kitchen window that's above a counter of standard depth and height. I can't see anything lower down that's closer than about 6 feet away. MOO

Geometry. A person standing 5'8" against a sink that is 36" high and 28" deep would be able to see the ground about 5 feet in front of them, or 3 feet on the other side of the sink. I know, he never used the kitchen sink or looked out a window.

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks for posting.

Great photo with kitchen window. Clearly can not see the patio, but the back area of yard.

I noticed because of the counter/sink width, I can't see directly below my window.

The addition on the back appears to be a breakfast/morning room. There is a formal dinning room, as well.

The house has many rooms, all large. It would take a lot of furniture to being to fill just the downstairs. I'm betting JW mainly used the family room and kitchen and a couple of the upstairs bedrooms.
Moo...

Good point! I just noticed it is the same with our kitchen window. Because of the depth of the counter, when I look out, I can't see anything on the porch below the window. We also have a sunroom off the kitchen similar to that house and the door onto the porch is from the sunroom.

JMO

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Could that be a window (black curtains) to the left (can't possibly be a full length window, though, right?) At any rate, I don't see any obvious windows.

This image does show what looks like a basement egress window, but what's puzzling me is that I can't see any sign of it on the outside of the house:

 

[MyBelle]

This is interesting, I've only ever known attic as the space under the roof - what other meanings are there? Then again I still get confused when I read first floor and it's not upstairs

There is a basement to that home. It is located below the level containing the kitchen/living room/family room. I've seen no photos of that side of the house but there has been a photo of the basement.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Geometry. A person standing 5'8" against a sink that is 36" high and 28" deep would be able to see the ground about 5 feet in front of them, or 3 feet on the other side of the sink. I know, he never used the kitchen sink or looked out a window.

All I know of I cannot see anything nearly that close to the house from my window above the sink. I am a couple of inches shorter than 5'8" though & I wasn't pressed up against the sink. I was just standing at it. But @Vern is apparently 5'8" and has shown with photos things that close can't be seen from Vern's window either. MOO

 

[Vern]

• JANUARY 9, 9:00 P.M. Mahoney arrives at Willis' home and after seeing that the vehicles owned by two of the missing men are parked on the street, knocks on the door, according to two friends of the deceased. No one answers the door and there are no other entrances due to the fence that surrounds the backyard of the property, so Mahoney decides to break into the home through a basement window, according to the friends of the deceased. She calls out for Willis once inside the house to no avail, and once on the first floor sees a body on the back porch, according to the two friends. Mahoney then calls police.

Kansas City Timeline: Final Hours of 3 Found Dead at Classmate's Home

Friends and family are not happy with what they say is a lack of information and want to know how Jordan Willis could not have seen the bodies in his backyard, and why he has not spoken with them about what happened the night.

www.insideedition.com

-- If the above (bbm) is correct, it would be interesting to know why JW didn't notice a body on the back porch, before AM (the fiancée) noticed it? Appears she noticed it rather quickly? Was he that out of it, of course until LE came knocking, but by then he already knows about the body. Goodness!

My thoughts.

Because she looked out family room/den windows or the sliders ... and he did not. ??

She obviously walked around the ground floor actually looking for her loved one; I'm not so sure he walked around the ground floor or peered out the windows looking for anyone. One can clearly go to/from upstairs to/from the kitchen without looking out a single window for feeding and watering and work/sleep purposes.

 

[Simply Southern]

The counter is only 36 inches high. If you were 4 foot tall, you might not be able to see out, otherwise, you would have a fine view.

Disagree, I just looked out my window, same size, position. A person can not look straight down from 2 1/2 or 3 ft from the window, 36 height. My vision start about 4 ft from my basement wall view from my window.

Moo

 

[Vern]

The counter is only 36 inches high. If you were 4 foot tall, you might not be able to see out, otherwise, you would have a fine view.

I'm 5'8" and your theory doesn't work here at my house. Although I do have a fine view, there is a very large gap between the first things I can see in my yard and my actual house.

 

[NCWatcher]

This image does show what looks like a basement egress window, but what's puzzling me is that I can't see any sign of it on the outside of the house:

View attachment 479365

It is odd. But I don't know that we have a photo of the end of the house opposite the garage end.

The window screen that's off on the front could have been removed by the girlfriend in an attempt to enter. Maybe she thought she could open that window & couldn't?
MOO

 

[MorningDove]

FWIW There were more chairs there, including one off to the side by the gait and maybe a table there. You can see them at around the 1:26 mark in this video from CBS.