MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #20

[reedus23]

I assume it's because Berkeley is having a mtg, so why not derail it, too -- isn't it next to Ferguson?

I remember when my Great Aunt lived in Berkeley in this beautiful brick home 35 yrs ago -- it's not even there any longer & in it's place is a weedy empty lot next to burned out houses. All those beautiful century homes GONE & I am sure some scavenger made bank scrapping all that brick & copper

It's a cycle that has been turning for almost 50 years IMHO in StL metro -- Lather, Rinse, Repeat a little farther west (or east depending on what side of the Mississippi River one resides)

Nicest building I've seen in Berkely is their new courthouse. At least they flat out tell you on their website, don't bother coming if you can't find a baby sitter.

 

[K_Z]

In case anyone is interested in watching (or re-watching, for a special self inflicted punishment, lol!) the Ferguson City Council meeting fiasco from last evening, here is a link to all 54:22 seconds. I'll post in the media thread, too.

http://bambuser.com/v/4931156

 

[Frydaddy]

I agree. We all agree (I hope, anyway), slavery was wrong. A grave injustice was done to AA's by slavery. Let's move on. Let's just agree that it's time to dust off our grown up pants, and move on. You can be anything you want to be, in today's world, if you are willing to work for it, regardless of the color of your skin. You may need to get a GED, or take out a student loan; join the crowd.

We have the NAACP. Why? If there was a NAAWP (white people), everyone would be up in arms...."hey, you can't do that! That's discrimination! We have black colleges...why can we have "black" colleges and that's ok, but God forbid anyone would refer to something as a "white" college?

Discrimination exists, unfortunately. Old people, fat people, skinny people, ugly people, beautiful people....regardless of the color of your skin.

People are going to continue to play the race card as long as society allows it.

Personally, I have no problem with organizations that celebrate or promote blacks exclusively. And it's difficult to minimize the impact of slavery. What I object to is the lack of context to the whole picture. Some examples...

There were white slaves and black slave owners, both seldom talked about.

While there were many white people involved in the slave trade, but not all white people had the resources or the inclination to perpetuate the slave trade. Many whites risked personal loss to assist in the fight to end slavery. Just as I don't think all blacks still blame whites to this day, I don't think all white people bear the burden of slavery either.

Who in their ancestry cannot point to discrimination based on ethnicity? The difference is scale...my ancestors died early deaths because they didn't have papers and thus were placed in mines. In no way do I compare them to blacks who endured slavery. Jews suffered on a much larger scale, though not in this country. Africans and Asians are subjected to far worse conditions with much more limitation than our own homeless.

I could continue down this path for hours, but don't want to go too far off the topic of Ferguson. The point here is, if slavery is still a problem in America, it's servitude to a particular mindset perpetuated by people who gain the most by keeping blacks in despair. Ask yourselves this, if blacks magically ended the cycle of violence, poverty, unemployment, broken families, and all other problems they collectively face, who would stand to lose the most?

 

[Frydaddy]

And the reason is......this not a racial issue from the standpoint of the officer and his actions. This is an issue of how we have let our system of law and order down. If we permit our children to run the schools by not behaving, by not working up to their potential, by not getting the proper advice at home about what is expected of you when you go out into the world and the most important, good lord, is setting a good example. This is true of any parent, anywhere, any level of society and unfortunately is all too common in our society today. We make excuses for our children when they get into trouble instead of saying, "Okay, you messed up but let's put it right." Instead some parents badmouth the authority figure who has to do the job the parent has neglected in the first place. And, yes, sometimes the results are tragic.

Everything starts with a child. I live in a community in the South where the population is split right down the middle. Very few young people are disrespectful. They open the door for the elderly. They say thank you, good morning, how are ya doin, etc. They make eye contact when they talk to you. The school system is orderly and there are very few problems. Why? Because their parents have taught them to be respectful of others and because the families have all lived here together for generations and are respectful to one another.

When you address an elected official of the government, at all levels, it demands respect. You do not have to like the person in the position BUT the position itself demands respect. If you do not like what you are getting then join a local campaign to get this official out of office.

There is presently zero, zero evidence that MB was shot because of his color. That is a fact. So let's just all refrain from presenting this case as such. What the community does and how they do it can be discussed. They feel they are making history but they may not be happy in the way history presents their actions. It all comes out in the wash.

Very well stated!

 

[krimekat]

I agree. We all agree (I hope, anyway), slavery was wrong. A grave injustice was done to AA's by slavery. Let's move on. Let's just agree that it's time to dust off our grown up pants, and move on. You can be anything you want to be, in today's world, if you are willing to work for it, regardless of the color of your skin. You may need to get a GED, or take out a student loan; join the crowd.

SNIPPED for space

Slavery? It's not like Americans invented Slavery, so this is what I don't understand . . . rich men, both black & white, owned slaves pre-Civil War in America! And how were slaves brought to America? I don't think Americans went into the African bush to capture slaves -- "lower class" people were SOLD by their own "higher class" people in their own regions of Africa!

How about the Chinese that were used as slaves to build Americas cross-country railroad?

And America had a President abolish slavery in 1865 (13th Amendment). How many countries AFTER that still used slaves? Slavery IMHO is NOT an American problem but a Global/humanitarian problem.

Pfft - compare 2 "races" who have been slaves in the History of the World: "Blacks" & Jews IMHO

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I agree, people need to have determination & motivation to better themselves REGARDLESS of your ancestry! America used to be the place to do just that -- now almost 50% of Americans are receiving Gov't Aid And the "entitlements" keep on coming

Ferguson protests are becoming ridiculous not only locally but nationally. It's become a J O K E & shows the ignorance of many. When only 27% of a community graduates from HS, it's no wonder people are clueless about how things happen in the "real world" aka a City Council Mtg or a County Council Mtg or voting process or Due Process (gawd).

Time to start arresting these domestic terrorists IMHO

 

[oh_gal]

Personally, I have no problem with organizations that celebrate or promote blacks exclusively. And it's difficult to minimize the impact of slavery. What I object to is the lack of context to the whole picture. Some examples...

There were white slaves and black slave owners, both seldom talked about.

While there were many white people involved in the slave trade, but not all white people had the resources or the inclination to perpetuate the slave trade. Many whites risked personal loss to assist in the fight to end slavery. Just as I don't think all blacks still blame whites to this day, I don't think all white people bear the burden of slavery either.

Who in their ancestry cannot point to discrimination based on ethnicity? The difference is scale...my ancestors died early deaths because they didn't have papers and thus were placed in mines. In no way do I compare them to blacks who endured slavery. Jews suffered on a much larger scale, though not in this country. Africans and Asians are subjected to far worse conditions with much more limitation than our own homeless.

I could continue down this path for hours, but don't want to go too far off the topic of Ferguson. The point here is, if slavery is still a problem in America, it's servitude to a particular mindset perpetuated by people who gain the most by keeping blacks in despair. Ask yourselves this, if blacks magically ended the cycle of violence, poverty, unemployment, broken families, and all other problems they collectively face, who would stand to lose the most?

Very well said, and I agree.
Change can be scary -- especially change to a lifestyle that has existed in families for perhaps...generations. But you can't have it both ways. You either want the same advantages everyone else has...or you want the perks that come with being oppressed. But you can't have both.

 

[nightwatch]

This line of thought never gets old, does it? That video that exploits black children is a prime example of what is wrong, blacks are indoctrinated from the womb to be willing to continue in a cycle of despair while blaming other people for their situation. Let's use Dorian Johnson as an example.

Counting his current child on the way, he will soon have three babies with three different baby mamas. That's two children for sure that have no live-in father figure. Unsure if Dorian had a job or not, but this guy is so concerned about nurturing his future son or daughter that he got over $2000 behind on his rent and according to some, may have finally been evicted. So there's another life beset with future roadblocks to success. Rather than be responsible, Dorian takes a love 'em and leave 'em approach. Rather than getting whatever job(s) are required to pay child support to give his other children a chance to thrive, Dorian smokes weed. The liberal social stance that "it's just sex-lol" or "it's just weed-no biggie" leads to "it's just poverty" and "it's just jail". Once in one of those two places, or both, who often gets the blame? Now, with regard to what we know about Dorian and his choices, which part is the fault of white people?

Not a personal attack just a debate.

With respect to your thoughts, I must jump in here and say I am insulted for blacks that there are people who believe " blacks are indoctrinated from the womb to be willing to continue the cycle" Please view a group of people collectively rather than what is served to one through msm. I agree there are issues but to white wash a group when there are hard working families who do send their children to school and PAY taxes take care of their homes etc. Is absurd. Jmo

ciao

 

[Linda7NJ]

Not a personal attack just a debate.

With respect to your thoughts, I must jump in here and say I am insulted for blacks that there are people who believe " blacks are indoctrinated from the womb to be willing to continue the cycle" Please view a group of people collectively rather than what is served to one through msm. I agree there are issues but to white wash a group when there are hard working families who do send their children to school and PAY taxes take care of their homes etc. Is absurd. Jmo

ciao

Hardworking law abiding people of every shade are insulted by this ignorant aggressive behavior. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DebinGA]

In case anyone is interested in watching (or re-watching, for a special self inflicted punishment, lol!) the Ferguson City Council meeting fiasco from last evening, here is a link to all 54:22 seconds. I'll post in the media thread, too.

http://bambuser.com/v/4931156

Typical meeting until ~5 min. mark, when Anthony Shadid starts leading the imo orchestrated chants. Don't know if he's the puppeteer-in-chief or not, but imo he's certainly provided the shock value/comic relief that news outlets crave.

 

[oh_gal]

Slavery? It's not like Americans invented Slavery, so this is what I don't understand . . . rich men, both black & white, owned slaves pre-Civil War in America! And how were slaves brought to America? I don't think Americans went into the African bush to capture slaves -- "lower class" people were SOLD by their own "higher class" people in their own regions of Africa!

How about the Chinese that were used as slaves to build Americas cross-country railroad?

And America had a President abolish slavery in 1865 (13th Amendment). How many countries AFTER that still used slaves? Slavery IMHO is NOT an American problem but a Global/humanitarian problem.

Pfft - compare 2 "races" who have been slaves in the History of the World: "Blacks" & Jews IMHO

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I agree, people need to have determination & motivation to better themselves REGARDLESS of your ancestry! America used to be the place to do just that -- now almost 50% of Americans are receiving Gov't Aid And the "entitlements" keep on coming

Ferguson protests are becoming ridiculous not only locally but nationally. It's become a J O K E & shows the ignorance of many. When only 27% of a community graduates from HS, it's no wonder people are clueless about how things happen in the "real world" aka a City Council Mtg or a County Council Mtg or voting process or Due Process (gawd).

Time to start arresting these domestic terrorists IMHO

(above, bbm)
Heck, I don't know...I am just pondering over what I've heard for years and years and years. It seems that those who are complaining about injustice against African Americans always go back to the slavery issue. If it's not all about slavery, someone needs to tell them to change their message, because that's all I've heard.

 

[reedus23]

Don't have a legally sound response, but found this article that quotes some higher up in legal circles. Posting it because it has some interesting reasoning about why some info maybe shouldn't come out. My guess is, we will see redacted evidence that protects the privacy of citizen witnesses, which I don't think anyone should have a problem with.

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post...ows-release-grand-jury-transcripts-recordings

Thanks for that. I just don't know how it can be done. From the context of the testimony, some of the witnesses will be identified even if their names are redacted. I had found the Federal rule on it and didn't see where it allows for it either as they were saying in that article. I was hoping they would have shed some light on Missouri rule that governs it because for the life of me, I can't find it. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lip service McCulloch is giving or if there is a real potential of the evidence being released.

 

[K_Z]

And the reason is......this not a racial issue from the standpoint of the officer and his actions. This is an issue of how we have let our system of law and order down. If we permit our children to run the schools by not behaving, by not working up to their potential, by not getting the proper advice at home about what is expected of you when you go out into the world and the most important, good lord, is setting a good example. This is true of any parent, anywhere, any level of society and unfortunately is all too common in our society today. We make excuses for our children when they get into trouble instead of saying, "Okay, you messed up but let's put it right." Instead some parents badmouth the authority figure who has to do the job the parent has neglected in the first place. And, yes, sometimes the results are tragic.

Everything starts with a child. I live in a community in the South where the population is split right down the middle. Very few young people are disrespectful. They open the door for the elderly. They say thank you, good morning, how are ya doin, etc. They make eye contact when they talk to you. The school system is orderly and there are very few problems. Why? Because their parents have taught them to be respectful of others and because the families have all lived here together for generations and are respectful to one another.

When you address an elected official of the government, at all levels, it demands respect. You do not have to like the person in the position BUT the position itself demands respect. If you do not like what you are getting then join a local campaign to get this official out of office.

There is presently zero, zero evidence that MB was shot because of his color. That is a fact. So let's just all refrain from presenting this case as such. What the community does and how they do it can be discussed. They feel they are making history but they may not be happy in the way history presents their actions. It all comes out in the wash.

BBM. Excellent observations, and excellent post, LambChop.

It's not "just" absent, or uninvolved, or poor parenting.

I'd take it even a step further, and say that unless a person, male or female, is completely ready to be a fully involved parent, and WANTS to be a parent, and understands the responsibility, self sacrifice, and deferment of one's own immediate desires that is necessary to be a good parent, then that person should make sure that they do not have any children. Regardless of their race or socioeconomic status.

For an awful lot of people, becoming a parent is something that just "happens to them", as if they caught a cold. There seems to be a complete lack of connection of "cause" and "effect" for these folks, that produces children, IMO. At best, for many people, their children are a nuisance to be ignored, or pawned off on others as often as possible.

IMO, unplanned parenthood is the very first volitional abdication of personal responsibility that has life long implications, for the parent, the child, and society. IMO.

 

[LambChop]

Correct me if I'm wrong....and I'm sure someone will, but is it not the normal procedure for the DA to keep the family updated on certain results of the investigation, such as letting them know the video was being released ahead of time? Or informing the family's attorney of the final results from the drug testing?

Please do not sleuth the family, just wondering how much information Crump may have regarding this investigation.

 

[krimekat]

Not a personal attack just a debate.

With respect to your thoughts, I must jump in here and say I am insulted for blacks that there are people who believe " blacks are indoctrinated from the womb to be willing to continue the cycle" Please view a group of people collectively rather than what is served to one through msm. I agree there are issues but to white wash a group when there are hard working families who do send their children to school and PAY taxes take care of their homes etc. Is absurd. Jmo

ciao

maybe we could start a thread to discuss this because I would love to show some stats specific to this region (StL metro)

children regardless of color/race/religion/social status (caste ) are influenced by their parents' lifestyles aka indoctrinated -- IMHO this "great divide" shown in America over the MB tragedy illustrates it perfectly!

I know plenty of "white" people (even relatives) who have not bettered themselves but have allowed the Gov't to take care of them & their kids & now the f-ing grandkids! Probably in a few yrs another one will have a baby & get State & Fed Aid! None of my cousins had a desire to go to school or even learn. When we were younger, my sister & I just thought that side of the family were dumb; now we know they are lazy & content on living off the dole in the Great State of IL (approx $20K a yr per person depending on how many dependents you have) plus they breed like crazy! I thank God every day that my father taught his girls to never settle & do your BEST! Didn't matter that we were females of Native American heritage -- the World was our Oyster!

Don't know why my Uncles didn't teach that ethic to their kids, grandkids; doesn't matter about race/color/religion/socio-economic class/etc -- it's all up to YOU! And hopefully you have some support. Education/learning is key!

The Cycle will continue until someone breaks it

 

[Lovejac]

So I'm counting down to the 12 noon deadline that the protesters gave last night :waiting:

 

[DebinGA]

Correct me if I'm wrong....and I'm sure someone will, but is it not the normal procedure for the DA to keep the family updated on certain results of the investigation, such as letting them know the video was being released ahead of time? Or informing the family's attorney of the final results from the drug testing?

Please do not sleuth the family, just wondering how much information Crump may have regarding this investigation.

IIRC Chief Jackson tried to inform the Browns before the video release, but they refused to take his call.

 

[Lovejac]

Ebonee F. Shaw‏@ebonee01·4 mins
@chriskingstl @AntonioFrench at Berkeley conference there are 11 ppl here & 4 are media #Ferguson Berkeley, MO
 View conversation

 

[K_Z]

Personally, I have no problem with organizations that celebrate or promote blacks exclusively. And it's difficult to minimize the impact of slavery. What I object to is the lack of context to the whole picture. Some examples...

There were white slaves and black slave owners, both seldom talked about.

While there were many white people involved in the slave trade, but not all white people had the resources or the inclination to perpetuate the slave trade. Many whites risked personal loss to assist in the fight to end slavery. Just as I don't think all blacks still blame whites to this day, I don't think all white people bear the burden of slavery either.

Who in their ancestry cannot point to discrimination based on ethnicity? The difference is scale...my ancestors died early deaths because they didn't have papers and thus were placed in mines. In no way do I compare them to blacks who endured slavery. Jews suffered on a much larger scale, though not in this country. Africans and Asians are subjected to far worse conditions with much more limitation than our own homeless.

I could continue down this path for hours, but don't want to go too far off the topic of Ferguson. The point here is, if slavery is still a problem in America, it's servitude to a particular mindset perpetuated by people who gain the most by keeping blacks in despair. Ask yourselves this, if blacks magically ended the cycle of violence, poverty, unemployment, broken families, and all other problems they collectively face, who would stand to lose the most?

Slavery? It's not like Americans invented Slavery, so this is what I don't understand . . . rich men, both black & white, owned slaves pre-Civil War in America! And how were slaves brought to America? I don't think Americans went into the African bush to capture slaves -- "lower class" people were SOLD by their own "higher class" people in their own regions of Africa!

How about the Chinese that were used as slaves to build Americas cross-country railroad?

And America had a President abolish slavery in 1865 (13th Amendment). How many countries AFTER that still used slaves? Slavery IMHO is NOT an American problem but a Global/humanitarian problem.

Pfft - compare 2 "races" who have been slaves in the History of the World: "Blacks" & Jews IMHO

Anyway, sorry for the rant but I agree, people need to have determination & motivation to better themselves REGARDLESS of your ancestry! America used to be the place to do just that -- now almost 50% of Americans are receiving Gov't Aid And the "entitlements" keep on coming

Ferguson protests are becoming ridiculous not only locally but nationally. It's become a J O K E & shows the ignorance of many. When only 27% of a community graduates from HS, it's no wonder people are clueless about how things happen in the "real world" aka a City Council Mtg or a County Council Mtg or voting process or Due Process (gawd).

Time to start arresting these domestic terrorists IMHO

BBM for focus.

Exactly. I don't believe any person is "trapped" in Ferguson, or any other dangerous, poor, gang infested, and crime ridden community. They make a choice, every day, to remain there.

And don't give me any stories about how they can't afford to leave, these are the only apartments they can afford, etc. That is a BS argument. There are options in almost every small to medium sized community for low income housing-- that is clean, comfortable, with pretty good public schools, friendly & tolerant neighbors, and a low crime rate. Many churches and social services groups to help.

But a person has to take a step away. Ferguson, and many devolving communities like it, cannot be made safe, clean, prosperous, and comfortable in a few years. It just isn't possible. If people want a different life, they have to leave, and begin again. But that's the thing-- most of the ones who stay WANT to live that lifestyle, IMO. Change is just too scary and unknown. So their own inertia keeps them in a continuous cycle of poverty and crime.

Any person there, any time, can make a choice to leave that environment, for a safer community, acceptance, and better opportunities for themselves and their children. There are many, many options to help someone who wants to start over in a new community.

I think many of those with any level of internal motivation and initiative DO leave, and never look back. And the population that remains continues to figuratively and literally destroy the community, and each other.

It isn't about blaming the poor for being poor-- it's about taking personal responsibility for your life. It's about rejecting that you are a victim, based on your parentage, race, income, etc. But for a lot of these people, being a race victim is to be part of a club-- the only sense of belonging and purpose they know. IMO, of course.

 

[krimekat]

So I'm counting down to the 12 noon deadline that the protesters gave last night :waiting:

LOL

I posted last night that Steve Stenger was voted in as the Democratic County Executive position over Dooley this past August. Stenger still needs to win the Nov election to become County Executive, but these foolios think he can do anything. Only Gov Nixon can request the removal of McCulloch as the ELECTED County Prosecutor.

Eh, IMHO & locals please provide your 2 cents but last night may have to do with Stenger's overwhelming win over Dooley this past Aug.

Why must this be racial? Isn't is about justice/due process? It's almost that some people need to be re-educated about things that should be known IMHO & WTF?

 

[DebinGA]

One of the reasons some people are reluctant to get off public assistance is because of the hassle involved in getting back on. Apparently, there's a lot of verification required before the first check arrives. Then with every change in children, marriage, divorce, education level, housing change, medical/psych condition of any/all in the household, the recipient's status must be reevaluated/updated with proof provided. The article I read, who knows where now, said that getting even a low level job results in serious eligibility problems and loss of income, plus the recipient can't just drop the job, say "My bad" and continue as before... s/he must restart the whole lengthy eligibility process from ground zero.