Moscow- at least 40 dead, 100 injured in an attack in a music hall. 5 gunman, multiple explosions

[Charlot123]

You seem quite knowledgeable, so take my comments with a grain of salt, but isn't equating Isis as a "Muslim" similar to equating right wing Christian extremists as Christian? I'm guessing Isis members don't follow most Muslim norms. Just a thought.

But all of your comments are relevant and informative.

I also question whether the right 'terrorists' were arrested. Let's face it, Putin's government will try to show quick action, whether the right perps are caught or not.

Technically speaking, ISIS is Sunni Muslims. How they interpret Islam is another matter.

(Likewise, saying “a Christian” tells me nothing about a person’s political, economical, and other position. It just says that a person believes in: Christ being God’s son, being crucified and by his death, absolving the humankind of the original sin and that Christ got resurrected on Easter. The initial dogma is the same, but Christianity has branched out times and again, I suspect, all schisms representing the fight over power, land, influence or wealth. TBH, I am most afraid of ascetic honest believers as potential chaos evoked by the purists is worse. In short, I’d choose Pope Alexander Borgia over Savonarola).

Likewise, ISIS is absolutely Muslim, only extremely fundamentalist. Being purist and spiritual, they are “the Savonarolas” of the Muslim world who managed to end up at war with everyone else, it seems, including the Talibans and Hamas. However, no one can say they are meek, weak or cowardly. So…I understand, all humans have certain pain threshold, so I am not commenting on the reaction of the accused to pain, but I was very much surprised that they’d even allow to be captured alive.

At the same time, if ISIS-Khorossan stated they were behind the terrorist act, they are to be believed. Here is an article about ISIS-K.

Who are ISIS-K, the group linked to the Moscow concert hall terror attack? | CNN

US officials have tied the deadly assault on a concert venue to ISIS-K, an affiliate that operates in central Asia, which has become one of the region’s most feared terror groups.

amp.cnn.com

Blowing up themselves together with the infidels, the more the better, would be typical for them.

Now, would they involve some migrants from Central Asia without explanation? This is a question to people knowing more about Islam. Would an extreme fundamentalist Christian send another Christian to death without making a person confide and get absolution for his sins? Unlikely. It is the core of Christianity. Are Muslim martyrs expected to go through some ritual of sorts before such an act? It is reasonable to assume, yes, but I am no specialist.

 

[Snoopster]

Technically speaking, ISIS is Sunni Muslims. How they interpret Islam is another matter.

(Likewise, saying “a Christian” tells me nothing about a person’s political, economical, and other position. It just says that a person believes in: Christ being God’s son, being crucified and by his death, absolving the humankind of the original sin and that Christ got resurrected on Easter. The initial dogma is the same, but Christianity has branched out times and again, I suspect, all schisms representing the fight over power, land, influence or wealth. TBH, I am most afraid of ascetic honest believers as potential chaos evoked by the purists is worse. In short, I’d choose Pope Alexander Borgia over Savonarola).

Likewise, ISIS is absolutely Muslim, only extremely fundamentalist. Being purist and spiritual, they are “the Savonarolas” of the Muslim world who managed to end up at war with everyone else, it seems, including the Talibans and Hamas. However, no one can say they are meek, weak or cowardly. So…I understand, all humans have certain pain threshold, so I am not commenting on the reaction of the accused to pain, but I was very much surprised that they’d even allow to be captured alive.

At the same time, if ISIS-Khorossan stated they were behind the terrorist act, they are to be believed. Here is an article about ISIS-K.

Who are ISIS-K, the group linked to the Moscow concert hall terror attack? | CNN

US officials have tied the deadly assault on a concert venue to ISIS-K, an affiliate that operates in central Asia, which has become one of the region’s most feared terror groups.

amp.cnn.com

Blowing up themselves together with the infidels, the more the better, would be typical for them.

Now, would they involve some migrants from Central Asia without explanation? This is a question to people knowing more about Islam. Would an extreme fundamentalist Christian send another Christian to death without making a person confide and get absolution for his sins? Unlikely. It is the core of Christianity. Are Muslim martyrs expected to go through some ritual of sorts before such an act? It is reasonable to assume, yes, but I am no specialist.

I knew you knew your stuff! Unfortunately I don't understand half of what you said here. I'm sure others will understand it better than I do. thank you for sharing your understanding.

So what is the difference between being fundamentalist Christian versus fundamenntalist Muslim. Haven't both of these groups moved far away from the core group of believers? Of course I'm sure there is wide variation in fundamentalist groups in both groups. For instance, FDLS is very far removed from what the average Presbyterian believes and adheres to. I'm sure there are equivalent Muslim offshoots as well.

I presume you are saying various splinter groups of each faith really don't have much in connection to each other? Is that the point you are making?
Thank you for your patience.

 

[Charlot123]

I knew you knew your stuff! Unfortunately I don't understand half of what you said here. I'm sure others will understand it better than I do. thank you for sharing your understanding.

So what is the difference between being fundamentalist Christian versus fundamenntalist Muslim. Haven't both of these groups moved far away from the core group of believers? Of course I'm sure there is wide variation in fundamentalist groups in both groups. For instance, FDLS is very far removed from what the average Presbyterian believes and adheres to. I'm sure there are equivalent Muslim offshoots as well.

I presume you are saying various splinter groups of each faith really don't have much in connection to each other? Is that the point you are making?
Thank you for your patience.

Well, first we have to define “core group of believers”, please. I don’t even know where to draw the line, what to call mainstream Christianity? For ease, I’d say, the first Council of Nicaea and the Creed and the Canons are what all Christians agree upon. These dogmata were formulated 300+ years after Christ, and the cracks in the foundation, resulting in the first big split, the Great Schism, will appear rather soon

The Great Schism between Eastern and Western Christendom

The Great Schism between Eastern and Western Christendom excerpted from The Orthodox Church, Penguin Books (2013) by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware One summer afternoon in the year 1054, as a service was about to begin in the Church of the Holy Wisdom of God (Hagia Sophia) at Constantinople...

stpaulsirvine.org

But - in 4 th century AD, the Christian church was one.

My denomination is Gospel-based, so I am less aware of the intricacies of mainstream Episcopalian Christianity. But I understand the essence of your question and who you define as “fundamental Christians”. About them..,, I don’t believe that they can be, even, remotely compared with ISIS. The reason is simple: five or ten fundies demonstrating somewhere or picketing something are viewed as “weird”. They are low in money. Now imagine several millions of such people appealing not to local neighborhoods, but to all Christians of the world, with the idea to eventually build a one, united, kingdom of fundamental Christianity on earth. Add to it, money from oil sales. This would be more like ISIS. You can say, they moved away from the mainstream, but at the same time, their idea to gather all Muslims into one world caliphate, so having divided, they are now trying to be a unity.

(Their idea is a strange parallel to Bolsheviks dreaming of exporting communist revolution, defining all “proletarians of the world” as their own. Only that idea was economy-based, and the caliphate is faith-based, but both are similar in the aspiration to eventually spread all over the world. There are no “own or foreign”. In general, Islam, as a younger religion, is probably less splintered than Christianity, JMO).

And then, Muslims might be more prone to unity because of the hadj.

Can you find anything similar in Christianity, ever in its history? Each year, in Mecca alone, 1-3 million people gather during the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar, for several days. And there are other places for hadj, too.

Statistically, 9% Muslims have been to hadj. Can you imagine what a unifying institution it is? And there is no division there, Sunni and Shia go, one giant spiritual meetup.

Thinking of the Big Three, Islam is the least elitist and I can believe in them getting angry and upset when they saw Muslims being tortured on camera. I know that many of us might have felt the same way but for other reasons, such as presumption of innocence or the right to be represented by a public defender, not to say that it was simply nauseating. But take any Muslim, his brother in religion is treated like this during the Ramadan. I assume they are angry.

 

[Warwick1991]

Russia is blaming the US along with others for the concert hall attack: Russia: US shares blame in a concert hall attack claimed by Islamic militants

Stalinist style fabrications from Russia... These may be used for some kind of violent escalation in Europe or elsewhere.

 

[Niner]

Russia is blaming the US along with others for the concert hall attack: Russia: US shares blame in a concert hall attack claimed by Islamic militants

Stalinist style fabrications from Russia... These may be used for some kind of violent escalation in Europe or elsewhere.

Let us (me) HOPE not!!

NATO celebrates its 75 year Anniversary! April 4, 1949 - there were 12 members. Now there are 32!

And speaking of NATO - saw a jet go over my place the other day! There are NATO soldiers stationed right outside of my town!

 

[Betty P]

Let us (me) HOPE not!!

NATO celebrates its 75 year Anniversary! April 4, 1949 - there were 12 members. Now there are 32!

And speaking of NATO - saw a jet go over my place the other day! There are NATO soldiers stationed right outside of my town!

Scary times over there. Glad NATO is in your back yard, so to speak. So many leaders getting riled up everywhere over money and real estate.

 

[Niner]

Scary times over there. Glad NATO is in your back yard, so to speak.

YES! Totally agree - Glad they are here. Last year's 4th of July celebration over here - the U.S. Embassy puts on a party. So met a few soldiers from NATO - let me see if I can find that picture.
The 2 on the right were from the U.S.