mtDNA- Mitochondrial DNA -questions

[OldSarge]

I think all the DNA is important. My original point was about the hair banding. My husband and I debated this for days. When a hair follicle "dies", the banding occurs. It has nothing to do with a decomposing body.

He told me I don't explain myself correctly, which I sometimes have trouble doing. But it is much more than mitochoncdrial DNA, hair banding, and who the father of Caylee is. However, I do have hope he or his family might have kidnapped Caylee.

dunlurken, I believe you are mistaken regarding your BOLD comments above. If you have a link that will prove you are correct please post that link.

 

[donnam]

Do you have a link? My husband says you are wrong. And so does Kobalinski. When a hair dies, or falls out of your head, it starts to decompose. There is no proof that I have seen that hair shows decomposition.

Many things can be shown from the "dead" hair, such as drug use, etc. Never heard of decomp though. Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Links have been posted ad nauseam about this subject on this board. I will look for one for you.
Your husband is right that when a hair falls out it starts to decompose. HOWEVER, that hair will NOT have root banding on it. The root banding ONLY happens when the hair comes from a person who is already dead WHEN the hair comes out.
As for Kobalinski, he changed his tune on this when he started getting paid by the defense.

 

[CanManEh]

I have always wondered why it's so important for people to know who is Caylee's biological father. I'm not being snarky, I'm just curious. Would it have any bearing on this case or what KC did to Caylee? I think it's a shame that whoever he is he was cheated out of a relationship with his daughter and she was cheated out of a father. But at this point, it just doesn't matter much (at least that I can see). And yes, DNA matters in the evidence in this case and I don't think there are any gorillas in the room. There's tons of evidence that has not been released, you can be assured of that.

I have mentioned this once before awhile back on NG show . Lenoard Padilla mentioned once about who the father was and he named a few names and then he said something that surprised me He said that he has even heard that her brother L A was the father and that really made me think about why the familly was acting so strangely also it was litterally a day or too after that again L A convinced the familly not to take the lie detecters test. Remember at first everyone was oh hes so nice and he is trying to figure it out but who is the one that put a stop to all that when the L E came asking for dna samples and lie detecter tests LA is the one that told the parents no dont do it and as of right now he is the hold out while both parents went in unknowen kinda and gave the dna..but why didnt LA.

 

[dunlurken]

mtDNA is also more numerous (100-10,000 per cell) and simpler than nuclear DNA (16,500 base pairs v.s. 3 billion).

Yes, mitochondrial doesn't have the strength that regular DNA has. Hope that makes sense.

 

[dunlurken]

Links have been posted ad nauseam about this subject on this board. I will look for one for you.
Your husband is right that when a hair falls out it starts to decompose. HOWEVER, that hair will NOT have root banding on it. The root banding ONLY happens when the hair comes from a person who is already dead WHEN the hair comes out.
As for Kobalinski, he changed his tune on this when he started getting paid by the defense.

What do we know about the root of this hair? Whose hair is it? When a hair dies, if it's attached to the follicle it will decompose and the banding will occur. It shouldn't be rocket science.

 

[donnam]

http://www.hairfactz.com/hairfactz_definitions_p.html

Postmortem Banding
(Postmortem means occurring after death). Postmortem banding is the appearance of an opaque microscopic band near the root area of hairs from a decomposing (rotting or decaying) body. When hairs originate from a body in a state of decomposition, a dark band may appear near the root of the hair. This characteristic has been labeled a postmortem root band.

 

[Magnify]

Postmortem banding is the appearance of an opaque microscopic band near the root area of hairs from a decomposing body.
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/april2005/standards/2005_04_standards02.htm
POSTMORDEM= AFTER DEATH (OF A PERSON)

 

[Magnify]

LOL Donnam!
I was too slow on the draw. Darn google crashing!

 

[donnam]

Since you brought up Koby, here are HIS own words on this prior to being hired by the defense.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/01/ng.01.html

Transcript of show that aired on Aug 1

"GRACE: Koby -- with us is Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist -- explain to us how you can tell, with a little more specificity -- how you can tell from a hair whether it`s in life or post-mortem.

KOBILINSKY: Well, there`s been some research done on post-mortem hair, and adjacent to the root -- obviously, the root is connected to the shaft of the hair -- there is a dark band that forms. How wide that forms, we really don`t know, but it does form. And so if that hair had fallen out after an individual dies, it would -- you would look for that banding pattern. That would be one good indication that it is a post-mortem hair.

 

[dunlurken]

http://www.hairfactz.com/hairfactz_definitions_p.html

Postmortem Banding
(Postmortem means occurring after death). Postmortem banding is the appearance of an opaque microscopic band near the root area of hairs from a decomposing (rotting or decaying) body. When hairs originate from a body in a state of decomposition, a dark band may appear near the root of the hair. This characteristic has been labeled a postmortem root band.

Thanks for the link. So is it opaque or black? And why is it not at the root/hair follicle? Because the hair continues to grow once a person is deceased? Lots of unanswered questions which I think the jury will struggle with.

And I still want to know who Caylee's Dad is. Also very important.

 

[donnam]

LOL Donnam!
I was too slow on the draw. Darn google crashing!

LOL look up I just shoved Koby's own words down his throat LOL

 

[dunlurken]

Since you brought up Koby, here are HIS own words on this prior to being hired by the defense.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/01/ng.01.html

Transcript of show that aired on Aug 1

"GRACE: Koby -- with us is Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist -- explain to us how you can tell, with a little more specificity -- how you can tell from a hair whether it`s in life or post-mortem.

KOBILINSKY: Well, there`s been some research done on post-mortem hair, and adjacent to the root -- obviously, the root is connected to the shaft of the hair -- there is a dark band that forms. How wide that forms, we really don`t know, but it does form. And so if that hair had fallen out after an individual dies, it would -- you would look for that banding pattern. That would be one good indication that it is a post-mortem hair.

And now he's working for the defense. He didn't believe it even when he said it. That was back in August.

 

[donnam]

Thanks for the link. So is it opaque or black? And why is it not at the root/hair follicle? Because the hair continues to grow once a person is deceased? Lots of unanswered questions which I think the jury will struggle with.

And I still want to know who Caylee's Dad is. Also very important.

Opaque is not a "color"

Definitions of opaque on the Web:
[SIZE=-1]not transmitting or reflecting light or radiant energy; impenetrable to sight; "opaque windows of the jail"; "opaque to X-rays"
not clearly understood or expressed
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Neither reflecting nor emitting light ; Allowing little light to pass through, not translucent or transparent; Unclear, unintelligible, hard to get or explain the meaning of; Obtuse, stupid; Describes a type for which higher-level callers have no knowledge of data values or their ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/opaque[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Not transparent.
linkstainedglass.com/terminology.html[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Material or fabric which is impervious to light and cannot be seen through.
www.freshpair.com/lingerie-glossary.html[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Descriptive of a material or substance which will not transmit light. Opposite of transparent, qv Materials which are neither opaque or transparent are sometimes described as semi-opaque, but are more properly classified as translucent, qv
www.ctsmachinery.com.au/glossary.asp[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]A quality of paper that allows relatively little light to pass through.
www.mp.minutemanpress.com/resources/glossary.html[/SIZE]

 

[donnam]

And now he's working for the defense. He didn't believe it even when he said it. That was back in August.

Where do you see him saying he didn't believe it????????
He didn't give his own opinion one way or the other. He stated scientific FACT.

 

[dunlurken]

Where do you see him saying he didn't believe it????????

Sorry, I shouldn't have said it that. Can't speak for someone else, but the fact that he is now working for the defense proves volumes to me. aka, he knew he was grasping at the time.

If the band is "opaque" then why call it a black band? Call it clear (not that it would matter to me.) When the hair dies, the banding occurs. Prosecution better have some damm good witnesses to prove otherwise.

 

[donnam]

Sorry, I shouldn't have said it that. Can't speak for someone else, but the fact that he is now working for the defense proves volumes to me. aka, he knew he was grasping at the time.

If the band is "opaque" then why call it a black band? Call it clear (not that it would matter to me.) When the hair dies, the banding occurs. Prosecution better have some damm good witnesses to prove otherwise.

He was not grasping at straws, he was stating scientific FACT. Now, he is putting "spin" on it.

I truly do not mean to sound snarky here, but, did you read the definitions of opaque I posted? It IS a black band. It is NOT clear. If it were clear, it would ALLOW light to pass through it. Opaque MEANS allowing little to no light to pass through it. ANY color can be opaque.

One more thing. The banding does NOT occur when the "hair dies". It occurs when the PERSON dies with the hair still attached to the scalp. Therefore, if hair falls out of a live persons head there will be NO BANDING. If it falls out post mortem, it WILL have a band on it.

 

[donnam]

Oh and to comment on this:

My husband and I debated this for days. When a hair follicle "dies", the banding occurs. It has nothing to do with a decomposing body.

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cach...gin&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Human decomposition begins approximately
4 minutes after death has occurred. The onset
is governed by a process called autolysis –
or self-digestion. As cells of the body are deprived
of oxygen, carbon dioxide in the blood increases

 

[donnam]

What do we know about the root of this hair? Whose hair is it? When a hair dies, if it's attached to the follicle it will decompose and the banding will occur. It shouldn't be rocket science.

Based on mtdna that hair came from either KC or Caylee. Since it HAS the root banding we KNOW it came from a deceased persons head. KC is not dead, so who does that leave?

I am not sure why you keep saying "when a hair dies". The root banding occurs when a PERSON dies and that hair is still attached to the scalp. When said hair falls out, it will have the banding proving it came from a person who died with it still attached to the head.

Not rocket science to me. To me it is pretty clear.

 

[Magnify]

Based on mtdna that hair came from either KC or Caylee. Since it HAS the root banding we KNOW it came from a deceased persons head. KC is not dead, so who does that leave?

I am not sure why you keep saying "when a hair dies". The root banding occurs when a PERSON dies and that hair is still attached to the scalp. When said hair falls out, it will have the banding proving it came from a person who died with it still attached to the head.

Not rocket science to me. To me it is pretty clear.

Ok, now when you say "clear" do you mean colorless, or not opaque?

 

[donnam]

ok, now when you say "clear" do you mean colorless, or not opaque?

lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!