Nancy Cooper, 34, of Cary, N.C. #17

[carolinalady]

Sorry, I guess I said it wrong. I wasn't talking about YOU, but 'other' people have automatically assumed whatever Brad said is true because it's in an affidavit and can be checked for truthfulness. AND the friends are going on here-say from Nancy.

I guess I should watch my quote button.

:blowkiss:

fran

No, I wasn't saying you were directing it at me. And yes, I've said lots of times that his statement can be checked. And I've said, IF he's lying, that will be found out. I wanted to clarify my position on it.

 

[d99gr81]

uh huh :crazy: . He could have wiped out that 45k in cc debt pretty easy. Since the payments were spread over 4 quarters, supposedly, and he had removed all cc's from Nancy and access to the checking account, it could have disappeared quickly and with much less interest than paying over time.

But I have to say in Brad's defense - this report of earnings falls into the category of rumor and speculation still. No confirmation this is true.

Unless Nancy like he claims racked that debt up and he new he was about to get divorced. Again those are quarterly bonuses from AMEX. He did indeed get them. What he did with the bonuses is his business. What some of you are now saying is...if he got that kind of money he shouldn't care if NC wastes it? Maybe he invested who knows thats not the point I was making.

 

[carolinalady]

VERY good point...

ETA...another example of "Nancy told me..."

ETA (again) Please understand that I am in no way trying to belittle Nancy Cooper or her tragic death. All we have to go on is what she told her friends and what is in Brad's statements. I beleive there is a little of the truth in both sides.

I understand completely and agree.

 

[RaleighNC]

Well, just reviewed a bunch of affidavits.

Clea Morwick - calls NC one of her best friends
#11 "Nancy would have to borrow money from family and friends to take care of some of the girls' basic needs"
But not her....

Michael Morwick - also calls NC one of his closest friends
#12 - same statement as his wife

Michelle Simmons
#19 - said that nancy and the girls often ate over because she was out of money
(but never loaned / gave her any money)

Tim Simmons
#5 - "Brad withheld money from Nancy on several occasions which prevented her from buying food and supplied (sic) for their daughters"
(but she didn't get any money from him, either)

Didn't see similar affidavits from family - but the motion for the ex parte hearing would have mentioned that, I would think as a reason to call him unfit if he woudln't allow his children to eat....



Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"

Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

 

[carolinalady]

Hey, with all this talk of how much money he might have made, remember that people of all incomes have financial troubles.

People can very easily outspend their earnings. Many times you can qualify for more than you can actually pay back and live off of. That's what gets many people into a world of trouble.

 

[KTaylorsc]

which brings me to my theory on why in the world Nancy would tell her friends these things if they weren't true.

besides the infidelity (and beleive me this is a biggie) no one could understand why in the world she would want a divorce. She had two beautiful daughters, a nice house, a BMW, didn't have to work and her husband paid all the bills and gave her money to boot. So, why not throw a couple little lies in there? Her friends would never find out the real truth because they never really associated with Brad because he never came around. Maybe she wanted him to look as bad as possible so the same thing that happened with HM wouldn't happen again with another best friend.

 

[Roy23]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.

I think you and I both see this case about exactly the same. The affidavits do not add up from any of the parties involved. And quite frankly, some of it contradicts even realities of what we know. Nancy was not afraid Brad would hurt her children. If she was, she certainly had an odd way of showing it. I realize that almost always the husband is guilty here. And I am sure that the police are all over it. Still, I haven't heard any proof whatsoever that has been confirmed. Wish it would break soon.

 

[d99gr81]

we've been told Cisco paid for his MBA. Nobody does that for contract employees.

I am 100% certain that his bonus, whether it be cash or options, would have to have been disclosed to the divorce attorneys, so long as it had been awarded by settlement date.

I think a bonus > 100% of your salary is BS, and DEFINITELY a cash bonus, but that is MO.

Hey I am telling you for fact I know that he got it... I dont care if you believe me or not. I happen to work with Cisco and have long time friends who work with him at cisco. Take it for whats its worth...But he got those bonuses. He scored the biggest contract Cisco has and those bonuses or paid quarterly. I happen to be on that hasn't passed judgment yet. No surprise Fran took it and ran with it the way she did...she is convinced he did it. I provided information because it could be relevant either way.

 

[fran]

I do agree the purse in the car is bothersome, though I do admit that I have forgotten my purse and not realized it was in the car until the next morning. And yes, my car keys were in the house, cell phone and purse in the car.

My big thing w/ the sleeping in a locked room w/ the children is that IF Nancy was so fearful of Brad, why in the world would she leave the children with him? We know from the night of the BBQ, Brad went home w/ the children (not sure if Nancy maybe went home, too, to put the girls to bed) and Nancy was at the BBQ until midnight or so. It sounded like this was a regular thing from her friends' affidavits.

I love my children more than anything and if I had any reason to think my husband my do me or them harm, I certainly would NEVER leave them alone w/ him.

Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...........................

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

 

[fran]

Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"
Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

Good find! :clap:

See, it's all in the DETAILS.

fran

 

[d99gr81]

See, this is EXACTLY the type of stuff I've been trying to say, on Brad says Nancy exaggerated,(embellished, guess it's an MBA size word for liar,:crazy and her friends said he did this and that,

THEN some people seem to believe Brad over the friends. Well, we know they were planning a going away party and changed it to something else. Of course Brad's explanation is they decided to work it out.

The friends said he played mind games with her by changing the rules on her. We've seen it by various friends in their affidavits, on a number of separate occasions.

Yet, many people believe him because he said it under oath.

But it still comes back for me anyway, Nancy is dead, Brad survived. I think she had a reason to be afraid of him and her MURDER is the {proof}!

JMHO
fran

Fran you refuse to see outside the box and believe its possible that NC embellished her complaints to her friends. Not saying one way or the other but having lived through it ... Hearing my ex who was awful make up stories to friends to make it sound like she was in hell when in fact was not true. Just saying you HAVE to be willing to accept that there is the possibility she was lying. Not saying she was ...but because she was murdered does not mean she was innocent... obviously she didn't deserve to die but you know what I mean.

 

[momto3kids]

Well, just reviewed a bunch of affidavits.


Now, the most interesting statement comes from Jessica Adam.

From #9:
When Brad called her and asked for Carrie's number, and that Nancy hadn't come home, etc. He said he had loaded the girls in the car and was going to "head out and find Carrie"

Wouldn't you head out and try to find YOUR FREAKING WIFE? Or - say I am going to try to find "her"?

I find this to be very disturbing - almost like when LE has nabbed folks when they are already speaking about their spouse / children in the past tense when they are only "missing"..... Seems to be he knew that he was NOT going to find Nancy.

Even if they were not getting along - finding Carrie was pretty irrelevant to Brad's situation. He would have been angry at Nancy for not being around and messing with his tennis plans.... so - he's sure as heck want to find NANCY.

I think murderers ALWAYS mess up.

RaleighNC...you and I are thinking along the same lines...

I understand to get into LifeTime Fitness for any reason you have to present an ID, even employee's. Why would he go there except it was close to where he supposedly was looking for NC? NC car was in the driveway, she had no cell on her, no ID I believe I read, he didn't know Carey's #, what was his purpose? He could have called LifeTime Fitness to see is she was there…but going in to ask at the desk? What would he ask that he couldn't on the phone? JA already stated NC was to paint hours before he went to LTF. Did he expect her to be laying by the pool and snuck in? He knew how hard it was to get in with no ID.

A few years ago I had an opportunity to meet someone who profiled liars (I don't know what they are called).

The 1 most important thing I learned….a chronic liar will tell you 1 part truth, 1 part lie such as 1st name correct, last name incorrect; month of birthday correct, year incorrect, etc.

A short term liar will tell you something without you even asking. They are talking to cover their axx at the time. They are also thinking you are below them and this little tidbit you missed or won't take the time to check out because you have more concerns pressing at that than to check it out.

Does this sound like someone we are discussing?

 

[Roy23]

Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...........................

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

Fran,

Some of that may be so but normally the spouse of domestic violence victims are also extremely controlling. Nancy would not be out partying to wee hours in the morning. There is so much speculation from both sides. Many say Nancy liked her social life, many say Brad belittled Nancy all the time. All we are doing is speculating. We can all see that the police are going after Brad but I can't wait to see what they have.

I kind of see Brad as a wimp. I believe he will kill himself before he goes to prision.

 

[FlowerChild]

You take out a home equity loan b/c if your total home value is greater than your mortgage plus the amount of the loan, then you can deduct that interest as well as your mortgage interest. LOTS of people--not in financial trouble--do this.

Could they have done this to buy the cars?
Perhaps their credit card debt BEFORE the home equity loan was $100K and they paid THAT off with the home equity money at a lower rate?
We have no idea at this time what their long term financial status was. We do know they were in some financial difficulty and were trying to reduce their debt/spending. Obviously they both lived a lifestyle they couldn't support on Brad's income - not uncommon.

They were talking divorce - the house was probably "over mortgaged" and they might even have LOST money on the sale. They had at least $45K in credit card debt. Brad had borrowed against his 401K. There's a VERY GOOD chance that the divorce would have left them BOTH in the hole. Nancy wasn't going to get enough to pay off half the BILLS and support herself and the girls AND relocate to Canada. Somebody (her family) would HAVE to help her get established again and find a job. Nancy was not going to be able to be a stay at home Mom any more - she was going to have to work. I don't know Nancy, but it may have been as much her decision as Brads to postpone her leaving - because of the MONEY problems and the RE market and the faltering economy.

As to the bonus - Brad would have been in a very high tax bracket - probably he would have taken home HALF of the alleged bonus after taxes $125K - even less if they took out a 401K contribution as well. AFTER taxes, insurance, 401K contributions Brads regular take-home pay would be about half his gross salary. If Brad and Nancy paid takes to the US and Canada they might have taken home even LESS. The IRS always gets their "due" and it's not pretty once you make over 100K a year - not to mention the penalties when your income goes up drastically in one year. Their finances look ok on paper, but I betcha they were in way over their heads and sinking fast because BOTH OF THEM wanted the champagne life on a cheap wine income. The wanna-be lifestyle - they wanna be RICH (or at least look like they are). It took BOTH of them to get into trouble and obviously they didn't agree on how to get OUT of the financial hole they were in or were embarrased to admit to friends how bad things really were.

My Opinion

 

[d99gr81]

Friends of Nancy say she was a good mom. She took very good care of the girls and they were her world. But in the background she had an abusive relationship with the children's father, Brad, her husband. Nancy was afraid for HER physical being FROM the threats from Brad. NOT the children.

JMHO
fran

Effects of Domestic Violence

........................snip...........................

Parents who have been traumatized by violence must cope with their own trauma before they are able to help their children

http://www.findcounseling.com/journal/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-effects.html

Right...so her "Friends" would come out and say she was a horrible mother and person knowing she was just murdered? People never talk bad about the dead. Fran she had an affair too... She spent allot of money... you cant just assume with out facts that she was miss perfect because she was killed.

 

[momto3kids]

Oops RaleighNC this was the post I meant...

I am a firm believer in the old saying, "Actions speak louder than words."

This has been the case of BC the entire time, no action.

IMO the affidavit is as good as the paper it is written on as they say. Compare his against NC's family and friends and there are certainly some liars in the group. I'd venture to say it isn't NC side.

He called how many of NC's friends on Saturday? Only JA states he did and I don't recall her stating he asked her to call around for him to help locate NC.

So, he took off for 2 hrs instead. No one knew much about Carey, but he knew what kind of car to look for? I remember her friends saying how they very rarely saw BC, but he just happens to know what kind of car to look for?

 

[carolinalady]

Originally Posted by 2Daughters1Dog
we've been told Cisco paid for his MBA. Nobody does that for contract employees.

I am 100% certain that his bonus, whether it be cash or options, would have to have been disclosed to the divorce attorneys, so long as it had been awarded by settlement date.

I think a bonus > 100% of your salary is BS, and DEFINITELY a cash bonus, but that is MO.

Hey I am telling you for fact I know that he got it... I dont care if you believe me or not. I happen to work with Cisco and have long time friends who work with him at cisco. Take it for whats its worth...But he got those bonuses. He scored the biggest contract Cisco has and those bonuses or paid quarterly. I happen to be on that hasn't passed judgment yet. No surprise Fran took it and ran with it the way she did...she is convinced he did it. I provided information because it could be relevant either way.

You can definitely make bonuses > 100% salary, look no further than Bob Greczyn of BCBS NC. In 2006 his base salary was $862K and he received a bonus of $2.2M (source: http://www.newsobserver.com/680/story/549291.html). Granted he is the CEO, but it's a non-profit (I don't think their status has changed).

I can see someone pulling in a big account landing a hefty bonus (either in stock options or cash). That's the incentive to land the account.

 

[fran]

Fran you refuse to see outside the box and believe its possible that NC embellished her complaints to her friends. Not saying one way or the other but having lived through it ... Hearing my ex who was awful make up stories to friends to make it sound like she was in hell when in fact was not true. Just saying you HAVE to be willing to accept that there is the possibility she was lying. Not saying she was ...but because she was murdered does not mean she was innocent... obviously she didn't deserve to die but you know what I mean.

Oh, I know what you mean. Do you know what I mean?

Like, she DID end up MURDERED. Now, doesn't that just a tiny bit lean the odds in favor that Nancy was telling MORE of the truth than Brad.

A guy does NOT admit he's an abuser. He wants everyone to think he's the best thing to hit this earth since sliced bread. It's unthinkable, in his mind, that a woman would reject HIM. He certainly wouldn't want the world to know that the only reason she'd stuck it out with HIM for so long, is because he was 'holding her hostage' in the U.S.A.

Nah, I'm sorry for what you went through, but that is NOT what happened here. Not even close.

JMHO
fran

PS.....Oh, and I see outside the box. AND Brad is standing right there.:bang:

 

[KTaylorsc]

well, time for me to hit the road.

chat with you folks later. It's hotter than heck here today whew!

Be good

 

[d99gr81]

Fran,

Some of that may be so but normally the spouse of domestic violence victims are also extremely controlling. Nancy would not be out partying to wee hours in the morning. There is so much speculation from both sides. Many say Nancy liked her social life, many say Brad belittled Nancy all the time. All we are doing is speculating. We can all see that the police are going after Brad but I can't wait to see what they have.

I kind of see Brad as a wimp. I believe he will kill himself before he goes to prision.

Wimps don't do Triathlons..just saying