Nate's Story

[Jolynna]

Very good observations you guys! Here's my question. Was Casey planning this before Caylee went missing??? It seems she spoke of the "nanny" to quite a few people before Caylee was actually missing, which tells me that she had already created the nanny story in her mind.....does that mean she planned to get rid of Caylee and blame the "nanny"? OR does it mean that Casey was doing *something* with Caylee during the days/nights and telling people she was with the nanny? If that's the case, then where WAS Caylee?? She clearly wasn't with the nanny. This gives more credence to the zanny = xanax theory to me. When Nate said that (paraphrasing) Casey said Caylee was staying with the nanny during the day and Casey would stay with the "boys" at night so as not to impose on the nanny.......was he saying that Casey made that statement to him BEFORE Caylee went missing (ie before June 16th) or was it after the fact that she said it? I guess I've kinda assumed it was AFTER Caylee went missing. But what if it was before??? That means Casey was taking Caylee somewhere....doing something with her....and telling people Caylee is with the nanny. Do you guys see what I'm saying or am I rambling? LOL. I feel like I'm not getting my point across.

I think Cindy kept Caylee before June 15. Cindy's words were that she always kept Caylee and that Caylee wasn't therefore a burden to Casey.

BUT, once Cindy said she was going after custody, I don't think Casey felt safe letting Cindy have her. Maybe Cindy would have grounds not to give her back and would win. (take something from Casey that was hers)

IMO, Casey was used to winning. Some women compete. Even mothers and daughters. Sometimes especially mothers and daughters.

 

[Faenorwyn]

Sorry I am alittle slow on the uptake this morning. HA Can you spell it out for me? Thanks!

LOL I'm not even sure I know what I meant

I guess what I'm wondering is, was Casey speaking of the Nanny (not necessarily by the ZFG name) prior to Caylee going missing? And if so, where WAS Caylee really during those times Casey said she was with the nanny??? If Casey had made up the nanny story BECAUSE Caylee was missing, then why would she have spoken of a nanny before Caylee was missing?

 

[Faenorwyn]

I think Cindy kept Caylee before June 15. Cindy's words were that she always kept Caylee and that Caylee wasn't therefore a burden to Casey.

*respectfully snipped*

This is what I had assumed as well, but then it occurred to me.....didn't Casey speak of a "nanny" before June 15th? Cindy herself stated this, as well as some of her friends IIRC. "Zanny" was apparently a household name. Sooo....how...why....I'm confused. Maybe I need coffee.

 

[Salome]

Snipped for brevity, but the below are parts of the OP that I want to discuss:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../09/ng.01.html

Snip ~
NATE: She said that Caylee was at the nanny`s. But when she started staying with us full-time, she had said that, you know, there were some problems at home, she didn`t want Caylee being subjected to it.

GRACE: What problems?

"NATE: I`m not exactly sure on the specifics. I`m not sure if it was problems between her parents or if she was having problems with her parents. I`m not exactly sure as to the nature of the problems -- but that she did not want Caylee to be subjected to the environment. So she brought Caylee -- she told us that she brought Caylee to the nanny`s and that she was going to stay with us in the evenings, which -- I mean, we`re an apartment that`s on a 24-hour schedule. There`s constantly people in and out.

So to us, it did not seem like a good idea to have Caylee at our apartment full-time, so we thought she was doing the good motherly thing. You know, she didn`t want to impose herself on the nanny also, so Caylee would stay there in the evenings, and she would stay with us in the evenings." ~ Snip End.

SNIP
So, here are my questions:

When did Casey start living with the boys full time (with Caylee)?

Who is "us" that Nate referred to?

After the group discussion among the boys, who was the person that told Casey not to bring Caylee around so much?

SALOME'S RESPONSE: Interesting questions and I do think this timeline is important.

I think "us" is Tony and Nate, and maybe Clint (although he was already on his way out at that point, right?).

It seems to me that there was no formal group discussion among the boys about what to tell Casey. It sounds like Nate is saying that Casey already had planned NOT to bring Caylee there a lot in the evening, due to their lifestyle of coming and going so frequently, and the boys concurred with this. It sounds like Nate is saying that sometimes Casey would plan to bring Caylee over in the evening, just to give the nanny a break, but that mainly she made other arrangements -- which is why they thought was being a "good mother" about the whole situation. If they'd had to discuss it behind her back and then tell her not to bring Caylee over, that would not be her making the good mother decisions.

It seems that Cindy would have happily taken Caylee, even providing daycare arrangements, if Casey was unwilling to do it and just walked out on her. Casey could have easily lied to Tony or anyone else about this new twist (e.g., my parents are in therapy and the situation is better, so now they're gonna keep Caylee while I get established on my own...etc). There are plenty of ways a liar like her could have spun the situation and made it so that she had everyone fooled and was still doing only what pleased her. So, I'm not sure I see any immediate need for her to get rid of Caylee just b/c of the boys' housing situation and her desire to spend nights with Tony. After all, Tony was planning on getting a new apartment, and Casey was inserting herself into that process, so things seemed to be a little up in the air as to the future of housing, and she could have always played her parents some more.

 

[librarian_mama]

I think Cindy kept Caylee before June 15. Cindy's words were that she always kept Caylee and that Caylee wasn't therefore a burden to Casey.

BUT, once Cindy said she was going after custody, I don't think Casey felt safe letting Cindy have her. Maybe Cindy would have grounds not to give her back and would win. (take something from Casey that was hers)

IMO, Casey was used to winning. Some women compete. Even mothers and daughters. Sometimes especially mothers and daughters.

That's what I originally thought, too, but June 9th or so Casey and Caylee went on that "mini vacation" Cindy mentions or the vacation to "bond with Caylee"--there's clues out there that Casey started taking Caylee somewhere 6/10-6/14.

 

[Sliver]

Casey sure had a lot of balls in the air, juggling so many lies at once, something had to come crashing down. Everything was spinning out of control...her home life, her finances, her living arrangements (where was she going to really live) It is so sad and frustrating because all those things, amy, tone, apartment, partys, where superficial and could have been the things to fall apart, those things would come and go, but the one beautiful thing, the thing that could have been Casey's success was Caylee and she is the part of Casey's life that crashed and none of it was worth Caylee.

 

[librarian_mama]

So, here are my questions:

When did Casey start living with the boys full time (with Caylee)?

She slept there every night since June 10th with just a change of clothes; after June 15th she brought most of her clothes.

It sounds like Nate is saying that sometimes Casey would plan to bring Caylee over in the evening, just to give the nanny a break, but that mainly she made other arrangements

Tony said that Caylee never spent the night

It seems that Cindy would have happily taken Caylee, even providing daycare arrangements, if Casey was unwilling to do it and just walked out on her. Casey could have easily lied to Tony or anyone else about this new twist (e.g., my parents are in therapy and the situation is better, so now they're gonna keep Caylee while I get established on my own...etc). There are plenty of ways a liar like her could have spun the situation and made it so that she had everyone fooled and was still doing only what pleased her.

So, I'm not sure I see any immediate need for her to get rid of Caylee just b/c of the boys' housing situation and her desire to spend nights with Tony. After all, Tony was planning on getting a new apartment, and Casey was inserting herself into that process, so things seemed to be a little up in the air as to the future of housing, and she could have always played her parents some more.

It wasn't just the pressure from Tony--there was a huge fight on the 15th at Cindy's--Casey was facing lots of pressure from her parents to stop stealing, get a real job & contribute to the upkeep & care of Caylee. JMO, based on things we do know. So, IMO, Casey was feeling it from all sides--she wanted to be the perfect girlfriend which meant no kid to distract her from the nightlife & she desperately wanted out of the nagging from Cindy to face up to her theft & no job & not helping care for Caylee.

 

[librarian_mama]

Casey sure had a lot of balls in the air, juggling so many lies at once, something had to come crashing down. Everything was spinning out of control...her home life, her finances, her living arrangements (where was she going to really live) It is so sad and frustrating because all those things, amy, tone, apartment, partys, where superficial and could have been the things to fall apart, those things would come and go, but the one beautiful thing, the thing that could have been Casey's success was Caylee and she is the part of Casey's life that crashed and none of it was worth Caylee.

That beautifully sums it up. :clap:

 

[unsaid]

snipped
I think the night of June 15 and on June 16, Casey was one very frustrated and angry girl.

IMO

EXCELLENT POST! The things you said about Casey's idealized self and the stigma were very insightful.

 

[icherish]

I've been thinking for some time that Casey left Caylee in the car that night because Caylee wasn't welcome to sleep at Tony's apt.

I think Casey left Caylee in the car the night of June 16th. (drugged or not) Caylee ended up dying in that car and was discovered by Casey the next morning. Casey didn't call 911 because she felt Caylee was beyond help and Casey had to cover the fact that Caylee was left in the car in the first place. Not only that, I believe Casey was more affected about her mother's reaction to harm coming to Caylee than Caylee's death itself. That's why she remained silent and kept and moved Caylee's body around for at least several days, not knowing what to do with her body. I know that's warped and demented, but we are talking about Casey here...'nuff said.

I believe this theory makes even more sense after listening to Casey's statements to LE.

 

[Sliver]

I've been thinking for some time that Casey left Caylee in the car that night because Caylee wasn't welcome to sleep at Tony's apt.

I think Casey left Caylee in the car the night of June 16th. (drugged or not) Caylee ended up dying in that car and was discovered by Casey the next morning. Casey didn't call 911 because she felt Caylee was beyond help and Casey had to cover the fact that Caylee was left in the car in the first place. Not only that, I believe Casey was more affected about her mother's reaction to harm coming to Caylee than Caylee's death itself. That's why she remained silent and kept and moved Caylee's body around for at least several days, not knowing what to do with her body. I know that's warped and demented, but we are talking about Casey here...'nuff said.

I believe this theory makes even more sense after listening to Casey's statements to LE.

I agree...seems as if the cause of Caylee's death is something just like you are saying senseless and simple and completely avoidable.

 

[Sliver]

I have to give Nate props because of all the interviews and maybe because most were written transcripts, I found his very easy to understand and relevant to Casey's behavior. I am sure we will be seeing Nate again when this goes to trial.

 

[Patty G]

There could have been lots of dicussions and it might not have just inclucded the 'boys'. But all they knew and hanged there. AS they found out about the situation, they are goig to ask about Caylee. Wondering about her and wondering if it's going to implact things at the apartment. We are talking about a 24 hr bachelor pad. Everyone that heard Caylee will be staying elsewhere are going to agree (be releaved) that she will be staying elsewhere.

So the 'we' could just be the boys, or it could be a whole slue of people.

I even feel that the roomies may have been annoyed that Casey was even staying there all the time. This is a bachelor pad, freedom to walk around as the please, etc., party etc.

I recall when my son was that age, and sharing a place with roomies. When one roomie brought a girl, and she stayed and stayed etc., the other roomies got annoyed because they are paying the rent, utilities, etc., etc.

I also recall Clint's interview with Greata regarding babysitting Caylee while Tony and Casey were doing other things. This doesn't go over very well for roomies.

Although Clint, Nate and Tony spoke kindly and caring about Caylee, but these guys are away from their parents, freedom as young men to come and go as they please.

 

[Salome]

She slept there every night since June 10th with just a change of clothes; after June 15th she brought most of her clothes.

Tony said that Caylee never spent the night

It wasn't just the pressure from Tony--there was a huge fight on the 15th at Cindy's--Casey was facing lots of pressure from her parents to stop stealing, get a real job & contribute to the upkeep & care of Caylee. JMO, based on things we do know. So, IMO, Casey was feeling it from all sides--she wanted to be the perfect girlfriend which meant no kid to distract her from the nightlife & she desperately wanted out of the nagging from Cindy to face up to her theft & no job & not helping care for Caylee.

By evening I meant evening, not night. I think that's how Nate was using it, too, since he used the word evening. I.e., during dinner time and shortly after, before Casey took Caylee to her parents' or to the nanny's (whichever story she was using on whichever people) to sleep for the night. This may not be how he meant it, though.

I totally agree with you about the multiple points of pressure--when you add in the pressure from the parents and the problems with the stolen money, things get more hairy. I was just responding to the OP that suggested that the possible motive for Casey getting rid of Caylee had to do with the housing situation at Tony's and with the boys possibly. I don't think that would have been enough to cause any problems for Casey, as she was able to lie easily and quickly and spin stories. However, her parents' confrontation of her lies and refusal to coddle her any more would have changed the dynamic she was working under entirely.

 

[concentric]

Thanks for agreeing. Dating anyone is very different from having anyone move in and start keeping house for you. Wasn't T. Lazarro 21 years old? He was still on his parents' dime and I think he was just enjoying his college days and enjoying dating. I think Casey inserted herself into his life much more than he wanted - with or without a kid. I don't think Caylee was the issue for the guys - it was just that Casey was there all the time and sort of smothering Tony. Most guys that age just aren't ready for ANY girl to move in and start playing house and basically acting "married."

She also was playing on his sympathies and his sense of obligation by telling him, "My Mom is so glad that you're here for me and Caylee. She's so glad you're here for me at this time when I just can't be at the house..." [Paraphrased] It's hard to break out of that kind of head game.

I'm not saying that A. Lazarro didn't want "the whole package." I'm just saying that he wanted to take it a lot slower and didn't have the experience to simply say so.

I thought that "dating" was different from "having sex"

 

[Short_Stuff]

I agree, she drugged her/left her in the car.

But I dont think the guys had anything to do with "it in that" they didnt want Caylee around all the time..(probably just not at parties which I agree with).
Then Casey should have just "dated" Tony (while Caylee was at a REAL sitter, or her moms) and Casey should have gone home after the date, instead of shacking up with some guy, instead of doing what she did to Caylee! That was Caseys sick MIND and decision to get rid of her daughter for her own satisfaction!!!!

My daughter was a single Mom as a teen, and she stayed HOME for YEARS, lost alot of friends etc at the time, but my daughter went to work, took care of her child and the going out ended for years and years!
Then she found a guy who accepted her child/ they went out on dates but SHE came home at night. And thats the way it was. (Now they are happily married and my daughter has 3 children total)
Another words tough bully on some guy and partying, when you have a CHILD your KID SHOULD HAVE COME FIRST (CASEY!)

*Sorry but I get so mad at this case-having 3 grandkids and a daughter who UNLIKE Casey takes Responsibility for her children!)

 

[concentric]

Quote:
Originally Posted by icherish
I've been thinking for some time that Casey left Caylee in the car that night because Caylee wasn't welcome to sleep at Tony's apt.

I think Casey left Caylee in the car the night of June 16th. (drugged or not) Caylee ended up dying in that car and was discovered by Casey the next morning. Casey didn't call 911 because she felt Caylee was beyond help and Casey had to cover the fact that Caylee was left in the car in the first place. Not only that, I believe Casey was more affected about her mother's reaction to harm coming to Caylee than Caylee's death itself. That's why she remained silent and kept and moved Caylee's body around for at least several days, not knowing what to do with her body. I know that's warped and demented, but we are talking about Casey here...'nuff said.

I believe this theory makes even more sense after listening to Casey's statements to LE.
-------------------------

A thousand times yes this is the most plausible explanation--indeed, I posted the same two weeks ago on another thread.

 

[California Dreamer]

JG's father said on Greta that this was one of the reasons Casey called JG on the 16th. JG's father also said that in something that was copied here at WS.

Also JG said it in one of his earlier statements to LE, IIRC.

I also found this tidbit last night - more info to ponder:

ORLANDO, Fla. -- A source close to the investigation of missing 3-year-old Caylee Anthony recently brought up new theories about the truth of Caylee's disappearance.

The source told WESH 2 that they have no indication that Casey would hurt her daughter, but now they strongly suspect the little girl died as the result of an accident, possibly from being left in a hot car or possibly drowning.

Orange County detectives said they still hope to find Caylee alive and well.

The same source told WESH 2 that investigators have been trying to track the cell phone towers Caylee's mother, Casey's, cell phone was hitting on June 16, 17 and 18, and that during that time, Casey was having an unstable relationship with Tony Lazarro.

According to the source, Lazarro said he never saw Caylee on June 16, 17 and 18, never heard Casey searching for her daughter and never saw Casey looking panicked about Caylee's disappearance.

Lazarro would not comment on his dealings with Casey.

From: http://www.wesh.com/newsarchive/17172094/detail.html

There was alot going on during that time frame in Casey's life with both CA and AL, which unfortunately looks like impetus of little Casey's demise.

 

[concentric]

Absolutely CaliforniaDreamer. I also put that on another thread. Casey had nowhere to go other than TonE's if she wanted to be "independent" because she was broke and stealing from the very friend who could have provided an alternative.

 

[Jolynna]

I thought that "dating" was different from "having sex"

Men have sex with women and enjoy their company even when they don't see a future.

It doesn't make them good guys.

But, it happens.