NC - MacDonald family murders at Fort Bragg, 1970 - Jeffrey MacDonald innocent?

[hockeymom]

Sun.
I've always thought he was guilty and until I see something else to show me he's not I will continue to believe in his guilt. I did find him very convincing however on LKL,and it made me think how people can be sucked in by someone who is good at lieing. I would like to read fatal justice and am interested if in fact the prosecutors witheld evidence. What would the motivation be? Why wouldn't the military protect their own? At the time of the crime I would think it would have been better to try and blame it on a drug crazed group of hippies than a military man. Also wouldn't people very high on drugs leave alot more forensic evidence other than 1 strand of hair from a wig?

 

[Member106]

I remember reading this book, seeing the movie and watching other reviews of the case. The most glaring thing to me is how Jeff MacDonald starting choking back the tears when he talked about his wife and kids, yet right after it happened barely a tear was shed when talking to the media. Did anyone see his appearance on Dick Cavet--he was downright glib! Funny how he didn't break down then - and that was a few months after the actual incident. I agree that his trial may not have been error-proof, but my gut says he did it.

 

[formyboys]

hockeymom: I know you were asking Sun some of these questions, but I think I know one of the answers, at least, but Sun could probably refresh my memory if I'm wrong.

The motivation I think stemmed from the fact that Dr. MacDonald was known to have a zero tolerance for drugs in and around Fort Bragg. Could be the acid tripping hippies knew this from the get go and targeted him and his family. Could be that the drug and crime rate at the time in and around Fort Bragg was high and I do believe, the crime rate to this day is still very high. I have had many a Fort Bragg soldier refer to Fayetteville as being high in crime and that with Fort Bragg being right there at it, it oozes onto the base itself, as it did back then.

Also, like I said, my ex-husband is military. Yes, military will go to some lengths to protect their own, I've seen it happen in and outside of my home while being married in the military in the '90's. Yes, it would have been easy to target the acid tripping hippies, but I don't think the military investigators could pin the tail on the donkeys with them...it was a high profile case and they wanted it, needed it, had to have it SOLVED...so MacDonald was their target. The man had character flaws, no doubt. He either was cheating on his wife at the time or had been having affairs in the past. The man just did not get a fair trial. The military conveniently left out, mishandled and lost evidence. The acid tripping hippies did not leave just one strand of hair from a wig at that scene. There was other evidence under the fingernails of the victims that were never identified. There is so much more stuff, but to get a run down, you'd have to view the site I referred to earlier.

The crime scene wasn't secured from the get go and that, IMO, is what messed this case up from the get go.

 

[Sunnmoon]

I am a civilian but work for the military doing background checks for their Top Secret, Secret clearances at UC.

Love to discuss this with everyone. It's still a very fascinating case. I'd love to have evidence that changes my mind. The blood evidence alone convinces me though. The table could have been moved or put on it's side from CID...who knows. The military doesn't take care of their own, just like the police don't take care of civilians, and there is always room for human error. I do believe the military went bumbling in, not realizing what a horrendous crime had taken place. (Forensics weren't as good as they are now and much was overlooked and bumbled in this one)

Each MacDonald family member had a different blood type. And the story Jeffrey MacDonald told of hippies coming in and what had happened.......didn't jive with the blood forensics.

Remember too the Manson/Tate Murders happened previous to this. And the similarities to that one.

Ft. Bragg is a city in itself. When this happened it was removed and a distance from Fayetteville and Springlake. (This happened 33 years ago!) I still find it very strange that anyone would say they saw a girl in a willowy hat walking around on Ft. Bragg.....it was just so removed from other towns. The MP's would have picked her up or questioned her if it was early in the morning on post.

And those dwellings are duplexes. It's so totally strange that all this went on and the other half of the duplex heard nothing. The walls are paper thin and the master bedroom where most of the activity took place are wall to wall.

 

[formyboys]

OMG! Sunnmoon, you may have very well done my ex-husband's and my background check!;- I'm kidding, in a way... He had a top secret security clearance. I remember after we married, I had to go to CID and give them fingerprints...etc...and people came out and talked to our neighbors about us...etc...

 

[tthoman]

FORMYBOYS:

Thanks for the info.....appreciate the update. It has been a long time since I read Fatal Vision.....and have not followed up on the case.

 

[Sunnmoon]

Yep, that's what I do, fingerprints, and gather information for securing a clearance. I'm the one who sent out the investigators to talk to your neighbors....hahaha!

All in a day's work, I tell future lieutenants to come forth with any derogatory information before the military does, and they tell me they stole candy when they were 12....it makes me laugh.

Biggest thing I've ever come across was someone not telling me they had been accused of rape, and had to let them know the Army would not accept them. They were devastated. If the person would have told me in the first place, we could have placed him. But he was being dishonest, and that struck him out with the military.

 

[tthoman]

FORMYBOYS:

Just read your link in detail.........the blood evidence of the palmprint on the foot of the bed is enough to re-open this case.......not to mention other points. Disturbing.....

 

[formyboys]

tthoman: no problem! It's been a while for me reading and talking about the case also! Might not change your mind, but you might find the info worth it! At least we appreciate each another's views and opinions on here!

Sunnmoon: I got a kick out of your post! But, y'all are really an extremely thorough group of individuals. I mean when my ex and I were dating, he said they went back to his hometown and talked to EVERYBODY....I thought all that stuff only happened in the movies until we decided to marry and he said if there was anything I ever did, I better tell him now!LOL Seriously though, y'all are sort of "feared" by the incoming military and the one's that are staying on and need to keep up to date with their clearances...my husband was always worried about our credit, making sure we paid on time b/c I didn't really realize that credit is reviewed in these types of things b/c he might sell secrets so that we could have paid off bills, etc...he was always uptight about money, but it's paid off for him (no pun intended)....as in his career... I swear I thought I was living in the movies when I had to go to CID! Y'all are also looked upon highly by the military, in the way that you do an outstanding job, I've heard it from many, not only being married to military, but working with the military for several years! Keep up the good work!

 

[FlowerGirl]

GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY ....etc

Years pass... people mellow to the facts, a new generation is now adults and they all start saying.. "Maybe he is innocent."
NOT!!!

This man is a physcopath from the getgo. He is a convincing liar and has no remorse. Remembering back..his attitude is much like ISP and his stories are just a far fetched.

He has had years and years to perfect his story...and beg witnesses that never were...to come forward. Don't fall for his lies.

Flower Girl

 

[NaturalSelection]

Hi Daphne
I didn't see the Dick Cavett show, but like Scott Peterson, he probably enjoyed the attention and even the notoriety, at least to a point. Psychopaths are usually neurologically underaroused and are often thrill seekers, so they crave the spotlight. He could probably hardly restrain himself because he believed he fooled everyone -- NOT.

P.S. I'm open to the possibility that he didn't do it and believe that any impropriety on the part of the State is extremely troubling. However, have you seen him interviewed? The guy is flamboyant and totally unconvincing as a grieving husband and father.

 

[smellsarat]

I saw the interview with jeff MacDonald on LKL last week...this case started my interest in true crime. I saw the Dick Cavett interview as well and his attitude was unbelievable, almost like he was having a good time being a celebrity. There is also a web site available by Jeff himself, you can find it on a web search. I looked at it a few months ago and must admit it had me wondering. He has prominent Boston attys and they are working to exonerrate him. I too always believed he was guilty.I did read Final Justice years ago-forget much of it, but still thought he was guilty. But although I question the totality of that I still think he did it. Does anyone remember mention of there being an article in the MacDonald home of the Manson murders by hippies, which MacDonald could easily have read up on. And he was having an affair altho on LKL he said One night stands...It will be interesting to see what the DNA test shows but I still think hes GUILTY!!!I think his in-laws had every reason to be angry tht such a horrific crime left him able to pick up his life as is nothing had happened. Sounds like chuck Stuart-the Boston pregnant wife Killer, and like SP!!!

 

[Old Broad]

There is a thread on the unsolved cases here about this case, you might have to go back a while to find it.
IMO there are to many things still unanswered about this case and because of that my mind is open that the possibility is there he could be innocent.
It makes no sense to me that it has taken this long for the DNA to be tested, and yet it still is not done. If there was no question about his guilt I'd think it would have been done a very long time ago.
The floppy hat hippie girl was in fact the daughter of a high ranking officer there at the base. She at times made statements making it sound like there was in fact a group of men who had it out for the Dr because he did not go along with the drug problems they had but turned them in. The strands of hair matches the wig she was known to wear at that time.

There have been some people wrongly imprisoned, we know that now because of the DNA testing that finally set them free.
So I come back to the question again, Why does the military not want to do this testing?

 

[smellsarat]

Well, from what I understand..DNA testing costs lots of money! Remember a few months ago it came out that thousands of rape kits had gone untested because of the cost. That to me is totally disgusting!And criminals would all be crying for DNA tests...

 

[Old Broad]

smellsarat, it's my believe that they are willing to pay for the testing themselves.

If I was ever in a situation where I was innocent yet thought to be guilty, I would hate to think a test would be refused to me in my fight for freedom.

 

[tthoman]

This case sounds like one that the Innocence Project @ the Cordoza Law School should look into, ...which is sponsored by the NACDL (National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers).

This worthwhile project was founded by Barry Scheck and another attorney. They have been able to prove the innocence of the wrongfully convicted through the use of DNA.

 

[Nova]

Emotions matter. Without them, we can't reason very well, because we can't assign a proper value to different behaviors or potential consequences.

What a brilliant statement! I don't believe I've ever seen it put so well...

For the record, I've read Fatal Justice and most of what's on the web as well as McGuinness' book. MacDonald is guilty as sin AND he may also deserve a new and fairer trial.

 

[hockeymom]

tthoman,
The Innocence Project has gotten involved. MacDonald said that in the interview.

 

[tthoman]

HOCKEYMOM:

Excellent! Only caught the last few moments of the LKL interview. Now maybe the case can be put to rest one way or another.....Wasn't that a re-broadcast? How long ago, do you know?

I never watch LKL anymore as I find it excruciating watching 'Ole Lar' go through his antics.

 

[smellsarat]

It was previewed last week. I think even Jeff MacDonald was aggrvataed at LKL's stupidity and inability to grasp simple concepts...Frustrating to get his point across. Larry wished him good luck and shook his hand....I guess larry thinks either he's innocent or Larry is an idiot...Pick One!!!!