NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct. 2010 #39

[impatientredhead]

I agree with your points.

But I almost feel like she is not competent to stand trial because of some combination of dimwittedness (not much apparent mental capacity) and delusional thinking. I mean, she really does not seem to understand what she is involved in, the gravity and enormity of it. She is talking in those letters about *maybe* not being out of jail for Thanksgiving or Christmas! She is talking about being allowed to go to the media with her story. I'm not convinced she can comprehend advice from her lawyers.

JMO

Lots of dimwitted delusional people in jail, several of them on death row.
The standard for competent to stand trial is completely different. She demonstrates in the letter she understands the process. She knows she is in jail, she knows why, she is aware of the investigation, has legal representation, and is aware of her codefendants movements.

She is leaps and bounds beyond what many low IQ and mentally ill people come to the table with and are still found competent to stand trial.

moo

 

[MountainChick]

I read your post and it got me to thinking..IF this is true..when this letter was mailed out..would it have been legal for LE to intercept it (or any other letter) just because they didn't want the info in the letter 'out there'? I know it sounds like a stupid question, probably doesn't make sense, lol..and not that it would have even been the case here anyway..but just in general..can LE withhold mail from an inmate or refuse to mail a letter just because..

As far as my understanding goes, IF this is authenticated as coming from EB, the only reason it's out there is because LE wants it there. They KNOW what's left the building and if they didn't want it to leave it could have easily been stopped. IMO These are in fact from EB and are meant to let AB know that the heat is on. It's a "you better get to talking" situation. I feel that LE is coming from a perspective that someone needs to talk because he who talks first gets the best deal. HOWEVER, I would question the validity of the account and truly believe that the truth will lie somewhere in the middle between both of these people. IMO LE needs to hear them both start spewing details to get to the truth of the matter which is that BOTH of them are culpable for the murder of Zahra and the abuse and disposal of her body>>>>> IMO ONLY.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

EB is surely mentally ill.
EB is not criminally insane.
Those two are worlds apart.

Criminally insane impacts guilt, she is not criminally insane.
Mentally ill could be introduced during sentencing depending on what she is convicted of, but most people who are convicted have mental or emotional histories. I don't think it will be relevant.

You can think you are a vampire.
But when you cover up your vampire crimes, you are criminally sane.

(I want to be careful what I ask here)

How would a disease that has been known to cause cognitive impairment be dealt with from a legal standpoint?

 

[Soulmagent]

Time for a new thread I suppose. I just got caught up on this one.

 

[Etilema]

If it were decomposing.

Meaning it may have been frozen.

ETA: I still don't think they would have stayed out of the house for that reason.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Quick question ... IF Zahra's body was found in the house do you think it's possible that LE waited that one night to remove her body under the cover of darkness? There was one night when everybody (media included) thought they were done with the house and all the lights were out in the house. However I heard in the last two days (on the news, can't remember which one though) that LE was really inside that house that night. Anybody hear that?

 

[Virgogalsue]

Ok isn't the back of the tire place nearest the side of the house with the driveway? Also isn't there a business right across the street? So if the car was parked far enough down the drive and it was night time maybe no one would notice. There has to be a reason the blankets etc were in that company car because they had moved into that house weeks before. It's not like they just never got around to taking that stuff in. I mean he used that vehicle everyday. So why leave that stuff in there unless someone was using it?

These are all just questions in my mind.

Does anyone remember a neighbor (where they used to live) saying they saw EB using the woodchipper?

I can only remember one from across the Rd on 21st reporting that they had seen him use one.

 

[Pondering Mind]

and hardly any of the institutions will allow Hardback books..so many hiding places in a hardback. I actually used to have people come to the store and want me to stamp a package of theirs I guess thinking that it would slip on thru, lol..or buy some mags and books and then hand me a few other things to put in there.. I would be like..WHAT!?..Do I have STUPID written on my forehead!..of course I didn't say that.. but I dang sure wanted to!

 

[impatientredhead]

(I want to be careful what I ask here)

How would a disease that has been known to cause cognitive impairment be dealt with from a legal standpoint?

It might be a mitigating factor in sentencing, but as far as legally responsible for her actions she demonstrated awareness of right and wrong when she wrote the ransom note she admits writing.

If she is convicted a judge could choose to let her disease impact his sentencing, if the evidence was compelling and other factors (like she was first time offender, possessing great remorse for her actions, etc.... were present).

 

[darlin gal]

Greeson/Spiritual Counseling Network have changed the Zahra fund site drastically.

(they are still BS in my opinion)

and they sound like they are gearing up to milk more money out of this tragic situation, all in this little angel's name. it makes me sick!

http://www.zahrabaker.com/

 

[lilysgramma]

I'm definitely not saying that she is insane, TL. I'm just saying that after reading this letter, I don't know what to think any more. Mentally ill? That I'd bet my farm on. But she clearly has some grasp on reality and she definitely knows right from wrong. IMO

I totally agree. Mental illness is not a defense and she has admitted in the letters that she knows what happened was "horrifying".

Question though - can LE impound those letters as evidence now that they have been released? Some of the statements are incriminating in my opinion and I find it hard to believe that they can be sold. Maybe the prosecution can use copies in court and therefore doesn't care about the originals.

Another question - if she (or he for that matter) files for divorce can they testify against each other if the crime was committed during the marriage?

Where is Zahra?

 

[tehcloser]

Ok...Vampires and crawl spaces. I think I just did myself in.

 

[darlin gal]

Quick question ... IF Zahra's body was found in the house do you think it's possible that LE waited that one night to remove her body under the cover of darkness? There was one night when everybody (media included) thought they were done with the house and all the lights were out in the house. However I heard in the last two days (on the news, can't remember which one though) that LE was really inside that house that night. Anybody hear that?

No, I don't think it's possible.

LE has no reason to "hide" the fact that a body has been found, if they found one.

 

[sunsetbeach]

I can only remember one from across the Rd on 21st reporting that they had seen him use one.

Yeah I remember that. Even went on to say something to the effect that they watched him (husband and wife I believe) so they were sure they wouldn't find anything in a particular spot.

 

[sarx]

Can someone point me to the original letter where she talks about "we didn't really kill her" or "we really didn't kill her". Let's get this cleared up, because they are very different beasts.

 

[tehcloser]

Yeah I remember that. Even went on to say something to the effect that they watched him (husband and wife I believe) so they were sure they wouldn't find anything in a particular spot.

Wasn't it something about AB had taken down two trees and "chewed" the stumps up in that spot? I cringed at the wording they used.

 

[Kat]

FWIW, just to state my opinion on the subject and not to argue or to debate any issues.

IMHO (because of personal experiences dealing with someone in our family) a personality disorder is not a mental illness in my mind. I'm sorry it's just not.

In my simple minded way of thinking, a mental illness isn't based within one's personality, it's organic based in the brain chemisty and/or structure.

I have no way of knowing if she has one PD or more or not. I have no way of knowing if she does indeed suffer from a mental illness.

Mentally ill (profound mental illness) people who commit crime, can elicit some compassion from me. (Dena Schlosser, Evonne Rodriguez, Andrea Yates, etc.) I know that many here disagree with me but that's just how I work. I agree to disagree no problems.

I'm not seeing EB that way. JMHO.

 

[impatientredhead]

I am sure that your facts are right. Maybe in DOC or Federal facilities this is the rule of thumb. But in the county detention center where I am currently employed, ALL mail is opened. Period.

Do you open mail that it is clearly marked as being communication between client and attorney? Or does legal counsel have a separate route of delivering their privileged communications other than the detention center's mail system?

I would assume most facilities are set up to have attorney communication enter the facility via a different route than the mail distribution center to prevent joe blow from putting a return address from an attorney's address.

 

[kalekona]

That is one of the things I just cant grasp. Why is she still standing behind him??? I can understand a Mothers unconditional love, but this is way beyond anything a Mother could handle. Does she really believe he is totally innocent? I dont care if he didn't deliver the blow or hide the body (or body parts), but he IS INVOLVED IN SOME CAPACITY!

<modsnip>

Your child is still your child no matter what horrible thing they are connected to (I can't say whatever he did because he hasn't been charged yet) and you support them, and you do whatever it takes to make sure they do the right thing now.

 

[Shutterfly]

“We really didn't kill her but what he did after the fact is kinda horrifying. "

I keep seeing this filtered down through the threads over and over. It's from EB's letter to Serial Killer Ink. I just have one question. She says WE, plural, not singular.....US. Who's WE? I can't help but draw from this that they were both there when "whatever" happened "happened." Then she immediately switches over to saying that HE did something after the fact that was kinda horrifying. HE..not WE. So my take is that whatever happened, be it a full blown murderous rage, vampire thing, natural cause, or from something akin to starvation, poison, OD or undiagnosed illness...they were both PRESENT when this poor child died.

We= EB and AB