NE NE - Jason Jolkowski -19 - Omaha - 13 Jun 2001 - #4

Girls don’t get the same ‘is she secretly gay’ speculation as guys because it’s more likely that a man is killed by a man than by a woman, so someone being gay makes the man killed man theory more plausible.

IMO
 
I’m not quite following here.

~80% of murderers are male, and ~77% of homicide victims are male. So if you’re a male murder victim, it’s very likely you were killed by another man. I’m not clear how being gay makes that even more likely, outside of an actual hate crime.

In fact, over a 10 year period (2012-2022) of 7700 reported hate crimes against gay men, only 10 were classified as murder/manslaughter. (That was sort of a shock, actually.)

*Stats are from the FBI Crime Data Explorer.
 
A) there’s no evidence to assume such, and the assumptions are usually predicated upon “single young guy, no girlfriend’ with perhaps ‘it was <sometime before, say, the year 2000>’ sprinkled in, all of which are very shaky supports for the speculation to begin with
I fully understand your hesitation to assume homosexuality based on "no girlfriend- ergo, gay".

Anecdotally, I was a 19 year old male once who was in love with the women of the world. Sadly, they all considered me to be a "nice guy"- but none considered me to be romantically a nice match. Thus, no girlfriends for me- despite being very interested in the subject.

That aside, I think the emphasis should be on his social group. Possible homosexuality would only be one possible motive stemming from his social group.

Other motives could be work related. Maybe say, uncovered embezzlement at work- then gave the individual a chance to turn himself in? Or, maybe knowledge of other illegal activity at work (say delivery driver also acts as a small time dealer)? Dealer then gets convinced that the "square" was going to turn him in?
 
Following up with some of the last posts, I do believe that JJ was targeted by a male predator in some capacity. IMHO this is the most likely reason for his vanishing. I suspect that it was possibly someone he knew in the neighborhood/community. However, IMHO I don't believe that he was interested in the predator "in that way" and/or that it was reciprocal.

I do think that JJ was "too nice" & due to his being single & possibly socially awkward - this may have been misinterpreted by the predator. Or, maybe not. Maybe the perp. just saw someone vulnerable & went after them. And, yes - this perp. may have asked JJ for help with something while JJ was on his way to the H.S. and/or got him into a home/car under false pretenses, etc.

It's also important to note that if the perp. knew JJ already, it's possible he also knew that JJ had some difficulty "processing" a lot of information at once - and may have used this to his sick advantage.

Anecdotally, I was a 19 year old male once who was in love with the women of the world. Sadly, they all considered me to be a "nice guy"- but none considered me to be romantically a nice match. Thus, no girlfriends for me- despite being very interested in the subject.

Extremely good point. I've mentioned before that when a guy is in his late teens/early 20's - many of the women he will come into contact with (as possible romantic interests) in his age group may be much more interested in "bad" boys. So, a single guy @ age 19 is in many cases just what it looks like - i.e., a single guy @ age 19, and that's it. Sometimes, there is no reason for this other than that he may not be able to find a gf that he's into & that also shares his feelings, etc.
 
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I’m not quite following here.

~80% of murderers are male, and ~77% of homicide victims are male. So if you’re a male murder victim, it’s very likely you were killed by another man. I’m not clear how being gay makes that even more likely, outside of an actual hate crime.

In fact, over a 10 year period (2012-2022) of 7700 reported hate crimes against gay men, only 10 were classified as murder/manslaughter. (That was sort of a shock, actually.)

*Stats are from the FBI Crime Data Explorer.
That’s is what I’m saying.

The speculation that Jason could be gay, one of the reasons why is because if he was murdered, he was likely murdered by a man.

If a man is killed by a man, being connected to that man in anyway, for example, lovers gone wrong, then this is just one more possible reason for a man to be murdered by a man.

I didn’t say or think it was anything to do with a hate crime. I don’t think that at all.
 
@Cryptic ”I was tempted to mentally shoot your theory down due an initial belief that it was centered on a belief that there would automatically be homosexual predators in a Catholic church.”

That’s a good one, Cryptic!

My reasons are usually:

A) there’s no evidence to assume such, and the assumptions are usually predicated upon “single young guy, no girlfriend’ with perhaps ‘it was <sometime before, say, the year 2000>’ sprinkled in, all of which are very shaky supports for the speculation to begin with

and

B) single young women before the 21st century don’t seem to get this sort of speculation about their sexuality relative to possible reasons for their disappearance/murder/etc.

Which I find interesting in itself, but overall it makes me think there’s some sort of underlying/unconscious bias going on. And by ‘bias’ I don’t mean anyone ‘hates gays’, I mean that clearly we (as a society) find it strange when a teenage boy/young man doesn’t have a girlfriend, so therefore he must be gay and hiding it, or maybe we don’t understand why he ran away/committed suicide/etc == gay. Either way, a logical fallacy.

Most importantly, I usually don’t think it is a productive sort of speculation - it doesn’t add anything to a potential theory. For instance, let’s assume we know for a fact that Jason is straight. He still might have been abducted/stalked/etc by a priest, male predator, obsessed gay guy, what-have you. If we know for a fact that he’s gay, that doesn’t seem to change the equation, which is ultimately that everyone should be a suspect, regardless of gender or sexuality, because we have zero idea what happened.
I see there are some new members here and yes, of course all of these possibilities have been discussed on this thread in the past, including the gay possibility. Still, it is good to see new input here! I think the main consensus from everything I have read over the years from commentary, is that this case is most likely foul play. I read that even LE had it listed as that at one time. There have been several cold case investigators over the years, but no results whatsoever. :One investigator even said this is the most baffling case he has ever seen. I think the only possible way it will be resolved is for JJ to be found by a hiker or hunter, etc. by chance. I still hold out hope that the skull that was found about 30 minutes away from Omaha and is presently being analyzed may give us answers, or may not. I do think JJ (his nickname as a DJ :) met with foul play between his home and the school, for whatever reason.
 
I still hold out hope that the skull that was found about 30 minutes away from Omaha and is presently being analyzed may give us answers, or may not.

Do you know which lab is analyzing it and whether they are trying to or were able to obtain sufficient DNA? (Sorry if already asked/ discussed. I forget things from case to case after awhile.)
 
Do you know which lab is analyzing it and whether they are trying to or were able to obtain sufficient DNA? (Sorry if already asked/ discussed. I forget things from case to case after awhile.)
No I dont know. But I brought forward in post 610 the latest info. about the skull. ALSO, I looked back and there was another skull, actually just a jawbone, discovered at a park about 20 mins. from Omaha. However, that particular jawbone was suspected by LE to be from prehistoric times. (it is at about post #378)

I also looked back at the enquiry I made to investigator Joe Welsch re. the 2 skulls last June and they had sent a response that I posted earlier in thread. He had said once they have any updates, that they may or may not give them to the public or to just families. Here is the Namus link to the skull found that they surmise may be quite old The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) (without lower jaw apparently, or just jawbone, bit of discrepancy). This is a location about a 20 to 30 minute drive from Omaha.
 
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No I dont know. But I brought forward in post 610 the latest info. about the skull. ALSO, I looked back and there was another skull, actually just a jawbone, discovered at a park about 20 mins. from Omaha. However, that particular jawbone was suspected by LE to be from prehistoric times. (it is at about post #378)

I also looked back at the enquiry I made to investigator Joe Welsch re. the 2 skulls last June and they had sent a response that I posted earlier in thread. He had said once they have any updates, that they may or may not give them to the public or to just families. Here is the Namus link to the skull found that they surmise may be quite old The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) (without lower jaw apparently, or just jawbone, bit of discrepancy). This is a location about a 20 to 30 minute drive from Omaha.
As far as the skull or jawbone found about 30 minutes from Omaha, I believe I read it was determined to be very old. It was found at Salt Creek, where various Indian artifacts and bones have been found in the area according to history articles online https://history.nebraska.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/doc_publications_NH1937Ashland.pdf Of course, the mystery re. the whereabouts of JJ could possibly be found within the several blocks between the school and his former home. If that is the case, it may just be a matter of time and discovery, sadly enough.
 
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That’s a good one, Cryptic!

My reasons are usually:

A) there’s no evidence to assume such, and the assumptions are usually predicated upon “single young guy, no girlfriend’ with perhaps ‘it was <sometime before, say, the year 2000>’ sprinkled in, all of which are very shaky supports for the speculation to begin with
Sounds like strawmanning to me.

I don't believe anyone has suggested that Jason was gay just because he didn't have a girlfriend, nor has anyone contended that he needed to be gay in order to attract the interest of a sexual predator. The question of Jason's sexuality was taken in the context of his personal circumstances, i.e. an awkward young man who was active in the Catholic Church, was considering going to seminary school, and born and raised in a less than tolerant environment. I've also known of young men who were secretly gay and saw joining the seminary as their way of dealing with it and appeasing their family. Is it REALLY a stretch to propose that this gentleman was homosexual, or at least questioning, particularly when there's seemingly no other angle for foul play?

For example, maybe Jason had confided in someone within the church or the congregation who was helping him / grooming him, and this person killed Jason when he spurned their advances?

I simply don't believe it was a random attack. Jason was a tall, strapping guy, not the kind who could be easily overpowered. Jason would've walked that neighborhood day and night, but for some reason, on this specific morning when his plans got changed, he crossed paths with a killer? Maybe it was an opportunistic neighbor, stranger things have happened, but it doesn't sit right with me.
 
Branson Kayne Perry, 20, disappeared two months earlier in Skidmore, Missouri. It looks like it's about an hour away from Omaha.

This stood out to me. It is probably a coincidence but it is worth considering.
Apparently, Branson had been date-raped by one man prior to his disappearance, and they also suspected a church minister who had described in graphic detail raping and murdering a man fitting Branson's description.

At least there are suspects in that case. With Jason's disappearance there is absolutely nothing. I don't believe the family have held suspicion towards any individual(s), or if they have, they have remained tight-lipped about it all this time.
 
@Cryptic ”I was tempted to mentally shoot your theory down due an initial belief that it was centered on a belief that there would automatically be homosexual predators in a Catholic church.”

That’s a good one, Cryptic!

My reasons are usually:

A) there’s no evidence to assume such, and the assumptions are usually predicated upon “single young guy, no girlfriend’ with perhaps ‘it was <sometime before, say, the year 2000>’ sprinkled in, all of which are very shaky supports for the speculation to begin with

and

B) single young women before the 21st century don’t seem to get this sort of speculation about their sexuality relative to possible reasons for their disappearance/murder/etc.

Which I find interesting in itself, but overall it makes me think there’s some sort of underlying/unconscious bias going on. And by ‘bias’ I don’t mean anyone ‘hates gays’, I mean that clearly we (as a society) find it strange when a teenage boy/young man doesn’t have a girlfriend, so therefore he must be gay and hiding it, or maybe we don’t understand why he ran away/committed suicide/etc == gay. Either way, a logical fallacy.

Most importantly, I usually don’t think it is a productive sort of speculation - it doesn’t add anything to a potential theory. For instance, let’s assume we know for a fact that Jason is straight. He still might have been abducted/stalked/etc by a priest, male predator, obsessed gay guy, what-have you. If we know for a fact that he’s gay, that doesn’t seem to change the equation, which is ultimately that everyone should be a suspect, regardless of gender or sexuality, because we have zero idea what happened.

Women don't get that sort of speculation simply because the overwhelming majority of people who commit murder, especially in this sort of mystery scenario with possible abduction, are men. Therefore you don't need speculation when "crazy man got obsessed with her and killed her" is a perfectly valid explanation. A woman getting killed by her secret lesbian lover would actually be the less likely scenario, just as someone like Jason Jolkowski being killed by his secret female lover. Now that I think about it, has something like that ever happened?

All of this to say, we can assume the killer was most likely a man. Obviously it could have also been a woman, but it is exceedingly unlikely, and you need to make at least some assumption or rule something out to even begin to construct a theory on what happened.
As I said in my previous message, it doesn't even really matter if Jason was gay or straight, obviously, because someone could have gotten obsessed with him regardless of that. Jason being gay would just give more power to this scenario, and would also mean there might have been some signals or paper trails or any sort of evidence that might have gotten overlooked by unassuming parents who wouldn't even have thought of that. Or it might make it easier to find some third party who knows something about Jason that other people didn't know.

But again, I am just repeating it because I don't want to come across as the amateur websleuth who just builds absurd fantasies: the sexuality in itself is not the primary focus; the core point here is whether Jason could have had a stalker that for whatever reason (_maybe_ because Jason inadvertently led him on, or didn't realise something was wrong with that new friendly acquaintance) became obsessed with him to the point of attacking him in broad daylight.
I was simply wondering: did his mom ever mention this scenario? As far as I know, she only mentioned the idea of a potential "sexual predator", i.e., someone who had *no* relation at all with Jason (the way she spoke about it implied this person would be a serial predator à la Jeffrey Dahmer, not someone who had become obsessed with Jason specifically).
 
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I generally don't believe in coincidences with unsolved cases. No doubt in my mind that Jason's schedule change had something to do with his disappearance in some way. How exactly is not known. It's the same reason I can't fully rule out someone at Fazoli's either- just too big of a coincidence that they change his routine and he vanishes. Again, perhaps they are innocent and the disappearance comes from whatever his original plan was that day. Either way, it's tied together. A neighbor, even a familiar one, seeing Jason walk up the street and deciding on a whim to lure him in a car or house just doesn't make a lot of sense. At the risk of being sexist, grown men with no risk factors don't get abducted like that out of the blue. When has that ever happened? Jason wrote on his "about me" page for the radio station that some of his interests included e-mail and internet. This was before social media sites, but during the peak of online chatrooms. Perhaps Jason was corresponding with someone online in the area (gay, straight, whatever. It could have been a totally platonic friendship). Maybe they arrange to hang out one day, Jason mentions he doesn't have a car so "online friend" offers to pick him up. Once Jason's plans get changed, he has no way of letting this person know that, but this person shows up anyway in the car and says at the very least he can give him a lift to the HS. From there, things go south. Or perhaps not even a stranger- maybe someone from the church, but their main communication is still online through e-mail. They arrange to hang out that day, and the same scenario plays out. Either way, I feel that the perp didn't run into Jason by happenstance. It's likely that they knew exactly where to find him and when. It's unfortunate that Jason's internet history has never been mentioned, if they were even able to access it at all, because I do think that that would help point LE in some kind of direction.
 
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I generally don't believe in coincidences with unsolved cases. No doubt in my mind that Jason's schedule change had something to do with his disappearance in some way. How exactly is not known. It's the same reason I can't fully rule out someone at Fazoli's either- just too big of a coincidence that they change his routine and he vanishes. Again, perhaps they are innocent and the disappearance comes from whatever his original plan was that day. Either way, it's tied together. A neighbor, even a familiar one, seeing Jason walk up the street and deciding on a whim to lure him in a car or house just doesn't make a lot of sense. At the risk of being sexist, grown men with no risk factors don't get abducted like that out of the blue. When has that ever happened? Jason wrote on his "about me" page for the radio station that some of his interests included e-mail and internet. This was before social media sites, but during the peak of online chatrooms. Perhaps Jason was corresponding with someone online in the area (gay, straight, whatever. It could have been a totally platonic friendship). Maybe they arrange to hang out one day, Jason mentions he doesn't have a car so "online friend" offers to pick him up. Once Jason's plans get changed, he has no way of letting this person know that, but this person shows up anyway in the car and says at the very least he can give him a lift to the HS. From there, things go south. Or perhaps not even a stranger- maybe someone from the church, but their main communication is still online through e-mail. They arrange to hang out that day, and the same scenario plays out. Either way, I feel that the perp didn't run into Jason by happenstance. It's likely that they knew exactly where to find him and when. It's unfortunate that Jason's internet history has never been mentioned, if they were even able to access it at all, because I do think that that would help point LE in some kind of direction.
Yes, and I had read that the police did finally look at Jasons computer from what I recall. I dont know to what extent though, and Im guessing his family looked at it as well but didnt find anything.
 
There would have been chatrooms and chat software in the early 2000s that no longer even existed in later years. The early Internet years were a crazy--and dangerous-- time.

He disappeared in his neighborhood, though. I think most likely the suspect was right there, in the neighborhood or Church, and he just managed to get away with the crime. The delay in really searching for Jason probably helped the suspect get away with it. JMO.
 
I really do feel the key here is the change in Jason's schedule that day, it sort of excludes as a suspect anyone who didn't know about his being called in to work in my mind since they wouldn't have known where he was going to be or even that he'd be walking to get his lift at that time.
Since I am not of the opinion that this was a random crime (how much gazillion of a chance is there that a lone kidnapping murdering predator happened to be hanging around this particular suburban neighbourhood when Jason wasn't supposed to be walking by and managed to take a not so small teenager unseen and unheard?

I believe what happened, happened not far from Jason's house and, although I have 0 names, my suspect list would be those who were aware his plans had suddenly changed or became aware because he went to tell them on the way. I also include members of his church group in this list as it seems they'd all be wel known to him. I think Jason knew this person pretty well. I don't think this was a stranger abduction.
 
I really do feel the key here is the change in Jason's schedule that day, it sort of excludes as a suspect anyone who didn't know about his being called in to work in my mind since they wouldn't have known where he was going to be or even that he'd be walking to get his lift at that time.
Not necessarily - it might have been someone who was stalking Jason at or around his house and was only waiting for the best time to go after him. It happens to women all the time.
I don't know about his schedule but he'd usually drive to work and to college and apparently would spend the rest of the time at home or in the church with his family, so he probably wouldn't be around on his own very often.
Now that I think about it - it might have been someone from community college who tracked him down. The college was just across the river in Council Bluffs.

It would be interesting to know if Jason's brother or the neighbour who last saw him also remember any car speeding up in that direction around the same time. It's a very long shot but hey, it's a quiet residential neighbourhood and people might notice that sort of stuff.
OTOH it might have been someone that lived in the area and therefore would go unnoticed and have plenty of time and opportunity to follow Jason around.
 
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