AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #3

[I'm a katt]

Around here people often sit in their cars while their kids play in the park. There are several parks in my area that parents do this so it isn't strange to me. Other posters in my area agreed...it's not abnormal in our area.

The 8 year old was doing homework in the car. Seems like Noemi would take the kids off of her parents hands and take them to this park regularly. Maybe that day the 8 year old was in trouble or behind and mom said "she can go but she has to finish this before she plays." Instead of driving back home to pick her up when she was done she decided to just her do it in the park.

My kids at 3 years old could find my car. I don't think the 3 year old was confused and hysterical about his sister. He doesn't understand a kidnapping. He was upset about his ice cream.

I don't think mom is savy enough to stump authorities this long. Had she done something to her I think it would have come out already. A 3 year old and 8 year old can't lie that well and for this long without messing something up.

Wow! Really! Around here I have never seen a parent do that.
I don't know why but that statement about the three year old running back to the car made the hair on the back of my neck stand up.

 

[Trackergd]

We do not attack, investigate or judge the victims family unless they are named a POI by LE. Please don't get this thread locked down by the moderators.

 

[oviedo]

I have looked around but haven't seen any new MSM to update her media thread. Someone posted upthread a video where a child is snatched in the blink of an eye. Where is this little girl?

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

ADMIN WARNING:

How a child may have been conceived X years ago has zero relevance to the fact they are now missing. Try to solve Dulce's disappearance rather than trying to dig up dirt on family members.

The next person to mention the possibility of rape will receive a permanent thread reply ban.

ETA: And stop, just STOP the victim shaming of mom and the rest of the family. That is not what WS is about. Wait for the facts to come out instead of negative speculation and bashing family members who are already traumatized over the loss of Dulce.

Bump

 

[SuziQ]

from The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

Bump

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Google Maps
I know that the searchers and divers have drained a waterway and have/are searching Sunset Lake but they are way up the other end of the park.
Jeddy Pond is right there. She could have been taken there or have gone herself. I wonder if they have searched the pond because it is never mentioned in MSM when they list the places searched. She would have to have gone down past the buildings her brother pointed to get there and it is very secluded.
Has anyone else seen Jeddy Pond mentioned?

I’ve been looking around a bit and can’t find anything. I do have this:
https://www.nj.gov/dep/wms/bfbm/panel2lakesmap.jpg
Google Maps
*eta*
NJDEP-DWMS, Bureau of Freshwater and Biological Monitoring

I’m directionally challenged. I failed geography. My husband tells me I can’t find my way out of a paper bag. I’m no help. WS proficient mappers step in. Our local vocal pros will guide you.

 

[Rosiebones]

NOW we are getting somewhere. There are a number of roads that connect 55, 40 and eventually with the NJ TP. We have egress points into Delaware, Philly and NY. Put your head into the actors. Which gives you a better escape route without LE stopping you? Awesome Rosiebones! Can we get a snip of this saved with markers on the spot Dulce went missing so we can figure out where the actor might have parked and the route he may have taken on foot?

I don't know how to do that !

 

[Steelslady]

Something I have been saying all along is that the van may never have been in the park, but she may have been walked out to a side street and put into a vehicle.
LE has never said who provided the description, or even if it was a person or they caught it on camera.

I bolded your comment to say, I was just thinking the exact same thing and was actually going to ask about this.

WHO actually saw Dulce walk with a man to the van? Is this actually something LE finally saw on video and hasn't made a statement that this man is real? Does he even exist? Could there have been a female involved instead?

Could Dulce have just ran away, maybe scared she would get into trouble because she might have accidentally knocked her brother's ice cream out of his hand, and got lost?

I really want to know how LE got enough information for this amber alert. It had to be legit, right? So, who is this person that saw Dulce get into a van? Did she appear scared or happy to go with this person?

 

[moonlessnight]

In the first interview with Noema, she is quoted as saying about Dulce: “She’s shy. She really doesn’t talk to people,” ... “She wouldn’t go off with a stranger. She would aways be with me or my mom. I don’t know why she just ran away"..."she just ran like that.”

In another article, she is quoted as saying: The toddler’s brother saw a man “waving his hand, like ‘come over here,'” Noema Alavez said on Sept. 24, according to CrimeOnline.

At age 5, kids are naturally cautious about strangers. With what Noema has said, this has to mean Dulce was taken by someone she knows somehow.

Police searching for 5-year-old girl who went missing Monday night in Bridgeton park

 

[GoBuckeyes]

It's not really detailed. We don't even have an age range. No description of hair or eye color, etc. We only have a description of this person having acne. So if there is any accuracy to this witness at all, presumably the person has bad acne if they were noticed and not much else about the facial characteristics.

We also know: no facial hair, slight build, height range, light colored skin (possibly Mexican), and a complete description if a rather colorful outfit. It would be nice if we had more, but cases have been solved on less.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

My goodness! The poor woman is pregnant, almost certainly exhausted, and she's sitting in the car with her 9-year-old niece. She was watching her children. I don't know of any parent who hasn't temporarily lost sight of one of their children. The fault is solely on the individual who took DMA.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I did either hear/read the mother said her ice cream cup and spoon we’re not located.
It has also been said more recently the brother stated his ice cream was knocked from his hand.

I know many have stated that a 3 year-old isn't likely to give an accurate description. But we've all known some 3 year-olds who could. I get the sense that this 3 year-old will be able to give detailed information...with skilled FBI investigators.

 

[moonlessnight]

I remember being at a large playground when my daughter was 3 or 4. I had the dog at a table on the side of a very large, circular play structure. A woman approached me and starting asking me if i could sign her petition or something. My daughter was playing on a raised walkway that led to the center of the play structure. I was watching her and talking to the woman. She was getting farther away and I must have noticed the presence of 2 adult men getting closer to her, although I don't consciously remember them until I clipped the leash to the table, excused myself from talking to the woman, got up and walked to the area under the walkway my daughter was on. Then I know I was aware there was an adult male on either side of the walkway with no other children in sight. I started talking to my daughter and the men both walked away quietly.

Watching children is instinctive and knowing when there is potential danger is automatic and unconscious at first.

It might take 10 seconds for someone to take a child away from an immediate location, but it takes them time to get to the child and time for them to get away. I was suspicious of the woman who approached me before I was aware of it, bc no one ever solicited anything from me at that park before. I was aware of being distracted intentionally by someone which put my guard up.

It takes more than 10 seconds to abduct a child, but people underestimate the amount of time they are doing something that takes their attention. Something that feels like 10 seconds is actually 2 minutes or more. And the lead up to an abduction may not appear to be suspicious if you don't notice the potential suspiciousness.

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

 

[MsBetsy]

I bolded your comment to say, I was just thinking the exact same thing and was actually going to ask about this.

WHO actually saw Dulce walk with a man to the van? Is this actually something LE finally saw on video and hasn't made a statement that this man is real? Does he even exist? Could there have been a female involved instead?

Could Dulce have just ran away, maybe scared she would get into trouble because she might have accidentally knocker her brother's ice cream out of his hand, and got lost?

I really want to know how LE got enough information for this amber alert. It had to be legit, right? So, who is this person that saw Dulce get into a van? Did she appear scared or happy to go with this person?

I assumed it was a combination of several witness accounts, including the 24 witnesses they interviewed, who described the man, what he was wearing, the vehicle, and him seating Dulce in the van.

It was not until after they had interviewed most of them that they put out the Amber Alert.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

That explains not seeing it. I guess it came in through a different entrance and wasn’t caught on video in the park. I hope they’ve looked.

For those local to the area, is there a way to the park without passing a bank or has station? I'm sure police are combing through all video sources, including home security. The chances of the perp's vehicle not being captured on video, imoo, is slim to none. It's just a matter of obtaining the video and processing them. Prayers for DMA and family.

 

[Rosiebones]

I assumed it was a combination of several witness accounts, including the 24 witnesses they interviewed, who described the man, what he was wearing, the vehicle, and him seating Dulce in the van.

It was not until after they had interviewed most of them that they put out the Amber Alert.

But the van was most likely parked behind the buildings that her brother pointed to, out of sight. So how could any of the people on the basketball courts or even the playground see the van and where he put her.

And, NO ONE saw the van leave. So if he put her in the back and got in and drove away why didn't the witness see where the van went?

 

[MsBetsy]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

She dropped her kids off and they went to play on the swings, about 30 yards away. She was still in the car with her sister when just a few minutes later the 3 year old came back crying.

If she had noticed her daughter was out of sight before the 3 year old came back, then yes, she likely would have left the car and gone looking.

But it was only a matter of minutes that she was not watching, which unfortunately is all it takes for someone to take a child.
Children have been taken from right in front of their homes, sometimes even with a witness watching, and still haven't been found.

IMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Thank you! I still need to learn how to do all that stuff. I have only had access to the internet for about a year and my daughter is better at tech and computers than I am but she doesn't have the patience to show me how to do it. She had to tell me what an url was.
I'm not even sure I can do it with my phone.

You're doing great MsB. Also, if you use Google, they put out really good instructional videos and youtube does too. And, as painful as it is, your phone's user manual is usually full of great information, albeit tedious.

 

[rosesfromangels]

But the van was most likely parked behind the buildings that her brother pointed to, out of sight. So how could any of the people on the basketball courts or even the playground see the van and where he put her.

And, NO ONE saw the van leave. So if he put her in the back and got in and drove away why didn't the witness see where the van went?

The best hope are street cams/business cams, and let’s hope LE is making progress with that.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MsBetsy]

But the van was most likely parked behind the buildings that her brother pointed to, out of sight. So how could any of the people on the basketball courts or even the playground see the van and where he put her.

And, NO ONE saw the van leave. So if he put her in the back and got in and drove away why didn't the witness see where the van went?

I think there are spaces between the building that can be seen from the area of the basketball courts. This may be where he lured her over to him.

We don't know exactly where he was parked, but it looks like there is enough space in between the buildings to be able to see him and possibly the van. Maybe no-one noticed where he went because they did not think it was unusual at the time so they didn't pay attention. Or maybe LE knows and hasn't said.

Someone had to have seen him well enough in order to give a description of what he was wearing. They must have seen him open the sliding door and seat her in the back seat of the vehicle.

IMO