NO BAIL! Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 -#29

[appleblossom]

I just looked at the Facebook page supporting GBC
https://www.facebook.com/SupportGerardBadenClay
LOL
Looks like no support for Gerard... facebook peeps are grilling him on it...
What did his family expect?

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks and yes, I too thought it was a lower canine incisor hence my specific question re the positioning.

At the risk of sounding pedantic (I'm not really... ) the canines and the incisors are different teeth. There's not a "canine incisor".

The incisors are the four front teeth (two on each side - they're all numbered from the midline and per quadrant) while the canines are the number 3s. They are off to the side more, and back around the bend of the jaw more. The incisors are the ones you use to take that big crunchy bite out of an apple. The canines and premolars are the ones you use to bite something hard such as a hard candy bar (think stick of rock), or to chew a piece of steak, for example.

Sorry if that comes across as being picky - not my intention. :blushing:

 

[DrWatson]

Perhaps I should also make the point that until we have the results of the autopsy, it would be very hard to tell WHEN a tooth had been chipped. For all we know, that could easily have been there for some time, waiting for a trip to the dentist to fix it up.

There may be nothing sinister in the chipped tooth at all, and nothing to show that it was involved in the cause of death.

Just thought that ought to be mentioned.... lots of people walking around with a chipped tooth or two.

 

[BJsleuth]

Perhaps I should also make the point that until we have the results of the autopsy, it would be very hard to tell WHEN a tooth had been chipped. For all we know, that could easily have been there for some time, waiting for a trip to the dentist to fix it up.

There may be nothing sinister in the chipped tooth at all, and nothing to show that it was involved in the cause of death.

Just thought that ought to be mentioned.... lots of people walking around with a chipped tooth or two.

No, not picky, for some reason I thought it was the canine tooth. Yes, I did think that the tooth could have chipped previously and may not be related at all.

One of my family members was assaulted, a direct punch to the face last year which chipped an upper incisor. It needed root canal and a crown. Curiously it didn't leave any bruising, however, there was swelling and a wound to the inside lower lip.

 

[DrWatson]

No, not picky, for some reason I thought it was the canine tooth. Yes, I did think that the tooth could have chipped previously and may not be related at all.

One of my family members was assaulted, a direct punch to the face last year which chipped an upper incisor. It needed root canal and a crown. Curiously it didn't leave any bruising, however, there was swelling and a wound to the inside lower lip.

Yes - the impact of a fist, or "blunt instrument" which is hard enough to cause a chipped tooth would in most cases also cause the split lip (by which I mean the inside of the lip - not necessarily through-and-through split).

Causing the mouth to slam shut with a blow under the chin MAY do it, as also would trying to force something into the mouth such as a bottle or other hard object.

However, as with so much of this case, that is all pure speculation on my part.

 

[KG1]

Morning KG1.

Suffocation (as opposed to strangulation) can be subtle to define, especially after 10 days, but would be fairly obvious on the autopsy table. Yes, petechiae would be likely. Strangulation (i.e. manual neck compression) would leave bruising, and depending on the force of compression, fracture of the hyoid bone in the front of the neck is common, although not 100% present.

Neither would explain the chipped tooth (it's hard to chip your own tooth - more likely to have bitten her own tongue or inside of cheek or lip), yet a blow could chip a tooth, as also could biting down on something hard, eg something being forced into the mouth - like the neck of a bottle, for example.

As for moving the body - there are several ways to tell if the body has been moved post mortem, including the position of what is known as lividity. That is where the blood, which is now basically static, settles towards the bottom of the body when in the resting position. This only takes a few hours to occur (between 30 minutes and 3 or 4 hours), and leaves telltale "staining" and discolouration. if the body had been moved after lividity occurred, either by the perpetrator or by a fast-flowing creek, it would be highly unlikely that the body would end up in exactly the same position as it was before.

You may find this link useful, although somewhat technical:

http://www.somerset.k12.md.us/JMT/postmortem_changes.htm

As gruesome as it is, I hope that all makes sense.....

Hi and good morning to you. Thanks for your post and link.
I considered suffocation more, given that QPS were quoted as stating that they were aware of the cause of death at the site of her discovery. As I understand, any fracture of the hyoid bone would not be evident until autopsy, and it doesn't always occur with strangulation.
I didn't mention lividity, but yes, aware that this would also be very evident. If it matched the position of discovery, it would indicate that the body was moved shortly after death. If not, then the body was moved maybe 3-4 hours later. It is my guess that the body would have been moved fairly urgently after death.

Chipped tooth is a different story. Could be possible post death in moving? Or as you said a blow, which caused bleeding inside mouth to gums or other.
Just my thoughts.

 

[marlywings]

Marlywings, I'm trying to keep my criticism of the Courier Mail in check, believe me, and at this stage I've not been harsh. Yes I recall you posting the info from the CM in regard to various versions re: Allison's so called walk but as you say

This is your opinion and I respect that but you don't know for certain whether or not GBC told anyone of these people anything at all. My initial point was that the CM had got it wrong on what GBC initially told the police and that was that he last saw Allison watching TV and he went to bed at 10:00pm. He did not tell the police that she went for a walk at 10:00pm. His story has never changed but for some reason the CM, along with other MSM have confused the information given to them in regard to Allison going for a walk and at what time. This could possibly be attributed to police media wanting to keep all information close to home.

It seemed pretty obvious to me at the time that he had told police one thing & had told, at least, the Dickies a different story....which was my point at the time. That has since been proven to be true. As I said in previous post, depending on who Courier Mail spoke to, they were given different stories. We know for certain they spoke to....
1. the Dickies
2. Kerry-Anne Walker.

That's two out of the four different stories...in my opinion Courier Mail printed what they'd been told.

Now, I can recall a sweet lady a few weeks ago who was like a dog with a bone. She would not have it that GBC phoned 000 until she heard it from the police. No matter what was written in MSM etc. this lady would not let it rest (drove me up the bloody wall to be quite honest :floorlaugh. Were you not negating anything and everything that the CM reported in regard to that phone call? It's now been confirmed via the information submitted to the bail hearing that GBC did in fact dial 000 to report Allison missing and also that his story was that he'd last seen Allison watching TV and went to bed at 10:00pm on the Thursday night.

Phew! Time for sleep now.

No I wasn't negating "anything & everything that CM reported regarding that phone call"....my point was, in majority of the reports it stated ""GBC"" said he'd called police" or "he'd reported her missing"....I clearly remember saying, unless or until I hear "police" say he'd called them I wouldn't believe it. Really, how often do we hear of someone killing another & then turning around & calling police???...it is very rare!!!. Also, I don't think it was ever stated anywhere that he'd called 000...we didn't hear that until it was mentioned at bail hearing.

Apologies for driving you up any wall...however the choice is always there to read or not...lol.

 

[Fuskier]

I'm going to plant some sunflowers in my garden in memory of Allison. While I watch them grow I will think of her little girls and pray that life is kind to them.

I wonder about the idea of spreading some sunflower seeds over the banks of Kholo Creek on the Brisbane side. Each year they would grow and provide a tribute to Allison Baden-clay. When people drive over the bridge, they would see sunflowers on the banks underneath. Keen2know, Possumheart, CJ60? Your comments?

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Sooo partner said Gerard was reserved in an arrogant way. Was an awkward boof. Quiet until he started to talk and then couldn't shut up and was grandiose. Could clear a room quickly if he opened his mouth because everyone was bored already. Same old description

But did he happen to mention that his greatgrandfather was Lord Baden Powell??!! :bow:

 

[Lu-Lu]

Lu-Lu - we had a huge amount of rain over the weekend immediately prior to ABC's body being found. The Brisbane River is still tidal up there, although not by THAT much. But the creeks can rise by metres in a good downpour. We have a creek running through the bottom paddock at home here, and every summer - our wet season - it floods, and the water can be 2-3 metres deep. And in full flow, it has enough force that the last decent flood in January 2011 peeled back the bitumen off the road like the top off a sardine tin, and washed a car off into the treetops further downstream.

I think perhaps that whoever thought they had hidden the body, didn't bank on that heavy, prolonged rainfall over that weekend.

Dr Watson, I have always been of the assumption that Allison was placed somewhere else upsteam... [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7936752#post7936752"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #10 - Page 3 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

The photo that I posted up last night was taken of the SES, or perhaps they are even council workers who cleared the area after her body was found..? And the high tide level was still very high. My point of the photo was to point out, that even IF she was placed under the bridge by GBC, that she would have been submerged by the high tide at least twice a day.

 

[Isabellnecessary]

I just looked at the Facebook page supporting GBC
https://www.facebook.com/SupportGerardBadenClay
LOL
Looks like no support for Gerard... facebook peeps are grilling him on it...
What did his family expect?

I see we also get a mention by Greatestbloke Ever...funny.
He must be reading. :seeya::seeya::seeya:

 

[Nads]

I wonder about the idea of spreading some sunflower seeds over the banks of Kholo Creek on the Brisbane side. Each year they would grow and provide a tribute to Allison Baden-clay. When people drive over the bridge, the would see sunflowers on the banks underneath. Keen2know, Pussumheart, CJ60? Your comments?

I'm in!

 

[Fuskier]

Totally agree Allison is the victim and TM is a victim of her own low morals...
...At the end of the day GBC allegedly made a decision to kill Allison but the responsibility for this decision is all his, regardless of the backdrop of events that lead to his moral fibre being tested...
... Look at the types of people who put money up for bail; these are intelligent people who made there own personal assessment of GBC character and were prepared to put money on it.

Some people in the corporate world, masonic club, friends of B C Seniors, friends of OW and the minister's etc may understandably be 'in denial' for it is horrific to think that he could murder his wife for the Insurance and Superannuation money as alleged. In this frame of mind, they could have put up money as surety. However, we have QLD Police as protectors/law enforcement and Courts of Law as providers of Justice. The arrest of the alleged murderer eventuated as a result of the QPolice investigation into the evidence for murder of Allison Baden-Clay. Further, the alleged murderer has been remanded without Bail for good reason with Justice Boddice indicating that the evidence 'was compelling'. My opinion only, not necessarily facts.

 

[BJsleuth]

An RE agent would probably have access to keys to houses for showings or rentals yes?

 

[Lu-Lu]

In the Medical Unit at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre....GBC NEEDS attention always and he can always chat up a nurse/lady for sympathy lol

From what I have heard, he's been giving himself all the attention he needs, all while being "under observation". Eew!

 

[BJsleuth]

From what I have heard, he's been giving himself all the attention he needs, all while being "under observation". Eew!

TMI!! Thanks for that Lu-Lu! :floorlaugh:

 

[Aunty]

:eye: :eye:

Possum eyes how cute. X

 

[Lu-Lu]

In the Medical Unit at Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre....GBC NEEDS attention always and he can always chat up a nurse/lady for sympathy lol

From what I have heard, he's been giving himself all the attention he needs, all while being "under observation". Eew!




ETA a dancing banana, because there are no monkey emoticons... :Bananabert:

 

[Lu-Lu]

That's weird! How did my edit become another post??

 

[ActusReus]

From what I have heard, he's been giving himself all the attention he needs, all while being "under observation". Eew!

I hope there isn't a link for this.......