NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[HmmMysterious]

On the afternoon of May 1, 2023, former Michael Jackson impersonator Jordan Neely began acting in a "hostile and aggressive manner" while riding the F train in Manhattan. Sources say that he threw his jacket on the ground which made passengers move away. A witness said that Neely "started screaming in an aggressive manner...he said that he had no food, no drink, that he was tired, and doesn't care if he goes to jail." There are no signs that he physically assaulted or threatened anyone before a 24-year-old alleged former Marine grabbed Neely from behind.

The 24-year-old man then placed Neely in a fierce chokehold; Neely attempted to escape it for 2 minutes before his body stopped moving. 2 other subway riders held Neely down for another minute before one of them placed him on his back. The subway rider then moved Neely's body on its side to prevent him from choking on his saliva. Freelance journalist, Juan Alberto Vasquez, noticed Neely moved his arms before he completely stopped. The Medical Examiner's Office said Jordan Neely died from compression of the neck due to the chokehold and has labeled his death a homicide.

The NYPD detained the man behind Neely's death, questioned, and then released him which has generated anger. It has since been learned that Jordan Neely was homeless, had a history of mental illness, and had an active warrant out for his arrest due to felony assault.

The killing of Jordan Neely has caused considerable outrage. A rally was held on the same subway platform where Neely died 2 days later to demand justice and for more social services for people in need. Governor Kathy Hochul and Mayor Eric Adams have been accused of being complicit in Neely's killing by criminalizing the city's mentally unwell while at the same time doing nothing about the lack of affordable housing. The NYPD was accused of incompetence for releasing Neely's killer.

<modsnip - not an approved source>
What We Know About the Death of Jordan Neely
Medical examiner rules Jordan Neely's death a homicide after subway chokehold
<modsnip - not an approved source>
Outrage simmers in New York after the killing of Jordan Neely on a subway train


MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* THREAD


Thread #1

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Sillybilly]

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[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

After discussion with Tricia, WS will allow members to respectfully discuss the following.

At NY Post and TMZ, there are images of Daniel Penny where he has a chest tattoo that appears to portray the biblical story of Samson battling/slaying the lion.

Marine who put Jordan Neely in chokehold on NYC subway identified as Daniel Penny

The Marine who put Jordan Neely in a chokehold on an NYC subway has been identified.

nypost.com

from: Marine Vet Daniel Penny Arrested for Manslaughter in Jordan Neely Death



We are allowing this discussion with the caveat that ... Members may speculate and reasonably discuss the tattoo and its possible meaning, but remember to state your opinion without bickering or engaging in extensive or contentious religious/biblical discussion.

While opinions may vary, posts that are determined to be antagonistic, inflammatory or inciteful will be removed, so please post accordingly.

 

[Lilibet]

Has anybody got a close up of the tatts, please? I just want to check them off databases?

It’s pretty blurry close up. This one is as close as I could get looking online for something similar, but I don’t think it’s quite it.

iStock

iStock. Explore the official iStock website for millions of exclusive, royalty-free, stock files. Find the perfect stock for your project, fast. Search now.

www.istockphoto.com

 

[kittythehare]

It’s pretty blurry close up. This one is as close as I could get looking online for something similar, but I don’t think it’s quite it.

iStock

iStock. Explore the official iStock website for millions of exclusive, royalty-free, stock files. Find the perfect stock for your project, fast. Search now.

www.istockphoto.com

Thank you.
I'm trying to see the tatts on his arm and they're just too blurry .
I can't make sense of them at all.
or even see them properly.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

From: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

 

[Lilibet]

The protocol is that EMTs do not approach a person who is displaying threatening or violent behavior until LE shows up to control the situation and ensure the safety of the scene.

Countless rescue workers have been injured when responding to people with mental issues or suffering from drug overdoses.

Apparently, Daniel Penny, a former Marine and private citizen, unlike trained EMTs, couldn’t call 911 and wait for LE to arrive, even though no overtly violent behavior toward anyone was reported.

Hubris? Interestingly somewhat akin to the account in the Bible of Sampson’s rise and eventual fall. (Penny’s tattoo)

Definition of HUBRIS

exaggerated pride or self-confidence… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Exaggerated pride or self-confidence.

Hubris Comes From Ancient Greece
English picked up both the concept of hubris and the term for that particular brand of cockiness from the ancient Greeks, who considered hubris a dangerous character flaw capable of provoking the wrath of the gods. In classical Greek tragedy, hubris was often a fatal shortcoming that brought about the fall of the tragic hero. Typically, overconfidence led the hero to attempt to overstep the boundaries of human limitations and assume a godlike status, and the gods inevitably humbled the offender with a sharp reminder of their mortality.

 

[MyBelle]

The protocol is that EMTs do not approach a person who is displaying threatening or violent behavior until LE shows up to control the situation and ensure the safety of the scene.

Countless rescue workers have been injured when responding to people with mental issues or suffering from drug overdoses.

Thanks! I was not aware that is the protocol but it does make sense. I do believe at the time the incident with JN started, the doors had closed and the train was traveling down the tracks.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks! I was not aware that is the protocol but it does make sense. I do believe at the time the incident with JN started, the doors had closed and the train was traveling down the tracks.

JMO

Had Penny called 911, LE could have been at the next station. EMTs have to wait that long for LE to arrive in many cases. And they do so knowing that the person could be violent in the interim. Penny had other options than choking Mr Jordan Neely to death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Had Penny called 911, LE could have been at the next station. EMTs have to wait that long for LE to arrive in many cases. And they do so knowing that the person could be violent in the interim. Penny had other options than choking Mr Jordan Neely to death.

JMO

Several other people were there. How do you know they didn't call 911? Penny stepped in because LE weren't there and JN's threats and actions were perceived as threatening and violent by those who were there.

JMO

 

[caradana]

Had Penny called 911, LE could have been at the next station. EMTs have to wait that long for LE to arrive in many cases. And they do so knowing that the person could be violent in the interim. Penny had other options than choking Mr Jordan Neely to death.

JMO

Need 12 to convict. 1 of 12 thinks the ex-Marine‘s best move wasn’t a phone call, and Penny walks. P.s. cellular calls don’t go through in that area of the tunnels. They do in some parts of the NYC subway system, but they don’t in the metal cars at Broadway-Lafayette or in Bleecker or between. Which, as you can imagine, adds to the fear people feel. Waiting for the response that he should’ve done a web-enabled call with Zoom, while that elderly lady prayed.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Several other people were there. How do you know they didn't call 911? Penny stepped in because LE weren't there and JN's threats and actions were perceived as threatening and violent by those who were there.

JMO

By HIM. He didn't know what anybody else was thinking, he assumed. There has been nothing reported anywhere that says anyone expressed any thoughts out loud on that train.

No, I'm not saying nobody felt threatened, I'm just saying nobody told Daniel Penny that they did. He acted on his own perceptions.

 

[LinasK]

Need 12 to convict. 1 of 12 thinks the ex-Marine‘s best move wasn’t a phone call, and Penny walks. P.s. cellular calls don’t go through in that area of the tunnels. They do in some parts of the NYC subway system, but they don’t in the metal cars at Broadway-Lafayette or in Bleecker or between. Which, as you can imagine, adds to the fear people feel. Waiting for the response that he should’ve done a web-enabled call with Zoom, while that elderly lady prayed.

Then NY needs to have subway police on the trains like we have in the SF Bay Area. Not citizens taking the law into their own hands.

 

[shotgun09]

Several other people were there. How do you know they didn't call 911? Penny stepped in because LE weren't there and JN's threats and actions were perceived as threatening and violent by those who were there.

JMO

Clearly there will be a dispatch record, as to when calls were received. I am also reverting back to my CPR training, and acknowledge that often times someone may direct another to call 911. That may or may not have happened here. A timeline would help.

 

[MyBelle]

Need 12 to convict. 1 of 12 thinks the ex-Marine‘s best move wasn’t a phone call, and Penny walks. P.s. cellular calls don’t go through in that area of the tunnels. They do in some parts of the NYC subway system, but they don’t in the metal cars at Broadway-Lafayette or in Bleecker or between. Which, as you can imagine, adds to the fear people feel. Waiting for the response that he should’ve done a web-enabled call with Zoom, while that elderly lady prayed.

Thanks for that info about cell phone reception! There needs to be some type of alarm signals in the cars that passengers can pull so the conductors know LE help is needed.

It's now been a little over 3 weeks since this unfortunate incident happened and still no grand jury indictment.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

By HIM. He didn't know what anybody else was thinking, he assumed. There has been nothing reported anywhere that says anyone expressed any thoughts out loud on that train.

No, I'm not saying nobody felt threatened, I'm just saying nobody told Daniel Penny that they did. He acted on his own perceptions.

Have all of the witness statements been released to the public?

 

[LinasK]

Several other people were there. How do you know they didn't call 911? Penny stepped in because LE weren't there and JN's threats and actions were perceived as threatening and violent by those who were there.

JMO

And once again, he could have chosen a non-lethal method of restraint until LE arrived. He chose a chokehold, which many police aren't allowed to use anymore. He was trained that it's dangerous.

 

[RANCH]

Then NY needs to have subway police on the trains like we have in the SF Bay Area. Not citizens taking the law into their own hands.

Bay Area business offers self-defense classes after recent public transit attacks

We've seen violent crimes happen on both on BART and Muni. Now, a local business in San Francisco is offering a self-defense workshop specifically for those who take public transit.

abc7news.com

Images of people being robbed or attacked while taking public transit like the 79-year-old woman in San Francisco, who was brutally kicked in the stomach last Dec. have increased the desire for some to learn how to defend themselves.

 

[MyBelle]

By HIM. He didn't know what anybody else was thinking, he assumed. There has been nothing reported anywhere that says anyone expressed any thoughts out loud on that train.

No, I'm not saying nobody felt threatened, I'm just saying nobody told Daniel Penny that they did. He acted on his own perceptions.

BBM. Sorry, but I don't believe the other passengers remained in total silence while this unfolded. On the amateur video I saw, multiple voices can be heard. Plus, a witness did speak to the news media.

JMO

Witness to Jordan Neely chokehold death calls Daniel Penny a ‘hero’ and offers to testify on his behalf

“The rhetoric from Mr. Neely was very frightening, it was very harsh,” the witness told The Post.

nypost.com

The witness told The Post that Neely, 30, went on an explosive tirade just before his caught-on-camera death, telling people he was willing to “kill a motherf—er” and “[take] a bullet” and go to jail.

Neely’s erratic behavior put commuters on the F train subway car on edge as they hurtled between stations in Manhattan, the witness said.

“The rhetoric from Mr. Neely was very frightening, it was very harsh,” the witness told The Post.