NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

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..minute conversation, their shared love of anime, and Neely’s busking.
“He was just a normal, nerdy kid,” he said.
Espinal expressed his frustrations at those accusing Neely of being violent, knowing nothing about the beloved dancer.
“They’re portraying him as somebody that he’s not,” said Espinal, referring to negative slants on Neely by some media outlets. “He didn’t deserve what happened to him and he really didn’t deserve the way everybody is portraying him.”

Others similarly remembered Neely as kind.
Larry Malcolm Smith, Jr, who had first gotten to know Neely a decade ago while the two lived in foster care, told Gothamist that Neely would sometimes share money he made dancing to help other kids buy food or get a hair cut.

Advocates who worked with Neely also described him positively, and said he was simply a person in acute need.
“He was a nice person, not aggressive or violent. Everyone who knew him knows that. He’d accept anything you had – many of the homeless down here are sober. They’re needing food or shelter or clothing, not strung out and shooting up dope,” said Minister Ray Tarvin to the Guardian during a protest for Neely on Wednesday in the subway.
Christopher Joyner, a case manager with the Bronx-based nonprofit organization The Bridge, told Gothamist he spoke to Neely on several occasions during outreach work meant to get unhoused people into city shelters.
“He was a decent guy,” said Joyner. “Definitely a guy I looked forward to working more with.”

Above is from The
Guardian Jordan Neely: man killed by rider’s chokehold was talented dancer | New York | The Guardian and it's people sharing memories, positive memories.

IMO it does not matter in the slightest whether their memories are positive or negative, Jordan is dead and he doesn't need to be dead.
He is dead because somebody took it on himself to place him in a prolonged chokehold and his death is a homicide.

Vigilante violence is reprehensible.
There is no excuse for it.
Derek Chauvin would be proud, no doubt, but many of us are not even slightly impressed, we are disgusted.
Not because of his race, his profession, his art, his wellness or his illness.

Because he was outnumbered and murdered in plain sight and nothing makes that okay justifiable or anything except abhorrent and despicable.

I'm here because victims are respected here.
 
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said Neely’s family “deserves justice.”

“I do want to acknowledge how horrific it was to view a video of Jordan Neely being killed for being a passenger on the subway trains,” Hochul said Thursday during a news conference. “There had to be consequences, and so we’ll see how this unfolds. But his family deserves justice.”

The governor added that Neely was held down “until the last breath was snuffed out of him,” describing the passengers’ response as “very extreme.”

Jumaane Williams, New York City’s public advocate, echoed the governor’s calls for justice, demanding that charges be filed “immediately” against the killer. The public advocate office helps with complaints involving government-related services and regulations.

“To say anything else is an equivocation that will only further a narrative that devalues the life of a Black, homeless man with mental health challenges and encourages an attitude of dehumanization of New Yorkers in greatest need,” he said.
www.cnn.com

Jordan Neely, the man killed in chokehold on NYC subway, is remembered as an entertainer shattered by his mother's murder | CNN

Before Jordan Neely was killed on a New York City subway car this week, he was known for his swift Michael Jackson dance moves that entertained many — yet he struggled with the trauma his mother's murder had left him with at an early age.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
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imstilla.grandma said:
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said Neely’s family “deserves justice.”

“I do want to acknowledge how horrific it was to view a video of Jordan Neely being killed for being a passenger on the subway trains,” Hochul said Thursday during a news conference. “There had to be consequences, and so we’ll see how this unfolds. But his family deserves justice.”

The governor added that Neely was held down “until the last breath was snuffed out of him,” describing the passengers’ response as “very extreme.”

Jumaane Williams, New York City’s public advocate, echoed the governor’s calls for justice, demanding that charges be filed “immediately” against the killer. The public advocate office helps with complaints involving government-related services and regulations.

“To say anything else is an equivocation that will only further a narrative that devalues the life of a Black, homeless man with mental health challenges and encourages an attitude of dehumanization of New Yorkers in greatest need,” he said.
www.cnn.com

Jordan Neely, the man killed in chokehold on NYC subway, is remembered as an entertainer shattered by his mother's murder | CNN

Before Jordan Neely was killed on a New York City subway car this week, he was known for his swift Michael Jackson dance moves that entertained many — yet he struggled with the trauma his mother's murder had left him with at an early age.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
Click to expand...
CBS link is very good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I wish I could like this a gazillion times @kittythehare! You have distilled Jordan Neely’s murder to its essence…vigilante violence. Thank you for beating this drum loudly and persistently. You are showing respect for the victim, which is the essence of Websleuths. We are here for the victims. We are not here for their killers.

Although we let the justice system determine the legal guilt or innocence of perpetrators, Websleuths is “victim friendly” and does not use the victim’s mental illness, past criminal record or belonging to a marginalized class of people to justify their murder. We don’t view *ourselves* as potential victims of people like Jordan, and we don’t believe that the potential “threat” must be annihilated for our safety. It is not hyperbole to say that this despicable attitude is the root of some of history’s worst horrors. It does not belong on any website dedicated to victims IMO.

Jordan Neely is a victim and victims are respected here.

kittythehare said:
Jordan is dead and he doesn't need to be dead.
He is dead because somebody took it on himself to place him in a prolonged chokehold and his death is a homicide.

Vigilante violence is reprehensible.
There is no excuse for it.
Derek Chauvin would be proud, no doubt, but many of us are not even slightly impressed, we are disgusted.
Not because of his race, his profession, his art, his wellness or his illness.

Because he was outnumbered and murdered in plain sight and nothing makes that okay justifiable or anything except abhorrent and despicable.

I'm here because victims are respected here.
Click to expand...
 
Lilibet said:
I wish I could like this a gazillion times @kittythehare! You have distilled Jordan Neely’s murder to its essence…vigilante violence. Thank you for beating this drum loudly and persistently. You are showing respect for the victim, which is the essence of Websleuths. We are here for the victims. We are not here for their killers.

Although we let the justice system determine the legal guilt or innocence of perpetrators, Websleuths is “victim friendly” and does not use the victim’s mental illness, past criminal record or belonging to a marginalized class of people to justify their murder. We don’t view *ourselves* as potential victims of people like Jordan, and we don’t believe that the potential “threat” must be annihilated for our safety. It is not hyperbole to say that this despicable attitude is the root of some of history’s worst horrors. It does not belong on any website dedicated to victims IMO.

Jordan Neely is a victim and victims are respected here.
Click to expand...
Not hyperbole at all.
Alarming, but here we are.
Viciousness elevated to virtuous.
Deeply shocking.
 
I'm going to have to hear more about what was happening.

I agree Marines might not be well-suited to handling mentally ill people, but IMO, no one really is if they aren't trained.

I've heard various stories. It seems to me that the Marine used excessive force, but maybe he thought he was protecting the other riders.

I don't know that civilians are held to the same rules as LE--because LE is trained in ways to deal with people, and even they mess up at times.

I think we need more help for the mentally ill and the homeless because Neely might not have been on the subway hollering if there had been a place nearby where he could have gotten a bit to eat and drink.
 
ADMIN NOTE:

The number of alerts we've received on this thread alone this morning is unacceptable.

If members can't control their tempers in this discussion, we can do that for you by issuing thread bans or TOs for those who are bickering.

This is a very, very sad case but we are exceptionally short staffed and Mods don't have time to be monitoring for snarky comments and back and forth bickering in any thread.

Unless you can control your responses, don't post.

Thank you.
 
The difference between last year’s attacks and Neely’s death was the video. We can see the panic on Neely’s face, the life slowly extinguished from his eyes. We can see others who do not intervene. We can see the face of his killer, which remains calm and largely expressionless throughout the struggle. We cannot see what precipitated the event; bystanders have told reporters that Neely had not attacked anyone and seemed like he was in distress. According to reports, he ranted that he was “fed up and hungry,” and, so, we are faced with the senselessness of what we are watching, and try to fill in some motive, however imagined it may be. In this case, many people outraged by Neely’s death seem to agree with Lander’s speculation—the blond ex-marine had acted out of a lawless impulse to punish Neely for the crime of being homeless and in distress. Homelessness and erratic, nonviolent behavior, in this case, received a death sentence. The longevity of such viral moments depends, in large part, on the outrage being reproduced over and over—on whether they confirm a pattern that people actually care enough about to notice.

www.newyorker.com

Jordan Neely’s Death and a Critical Moment in the Homelessness Crisis

After the homeless young man was killed on the subway, there has been a rare flash of national attention on the issue. Can the outrage be harnessed for actual change?
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
 
I’m on the New York City subways about 2 days a week and open invitation to anyone on this thread who would like to see firsthand, come to NYC and I’ll take you on a tour and we can assess together how grave the homeless situation is in the MTA right now. It is at least 10x as bad as it was pre-COVID. It is frightening, it smells revolting, there are people screaming nonsensically at all hours of the night and day, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence is real. The two men who were also physically involved in restraining this man were black and hispanic, respectively. Multiple people sensed that this man was a significant threat and I am inclined to believe that was so. I do not expect that a jury will convict this ex-Marine.

Adding that women in the subway now think of Michelle Go. Woman Dies After Being Pushed Onto Subway Tracks in Times Square (Published 2022)
I think of that woman every day when I’m down there.
 
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caradana said:
I’m on the New York City subways about 2 days a week and open invitation to anyone on this thread who would like to see firsthand, come to NYC and I’ll take you on a tour and we can assess together how grave the homeless situation is in the MTA right now. It is at least 10x as bad as it was pre-COVID. It is frightening, it smells revolting, there are people screaming nonsensically at all hours of the night and day, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence is real. The two men who were also physically involved in restraining this man were black and hispanic, respectively. Multiple people sensed that this man was a significant threat and I am inclined to believe that was so. I do not expect that a jury will convict this ex-Marine.

Adding that women in the subway now think of Michelle Go. Woman Dies After Being Pushed Onto Subway Tracks in Times Square (Published 2022)
I think of that woman every day when I’m down there.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's a sad situation and the city/state needs to step up. It was too late for Jordan unfortunately. And the man who killed him is white. The journalist who filmed Neely's murder said that it didn't appear he wanted to attack anyone.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/05/us/j...city-subway-chokehold-death-friday/index.html
 
caradana said:
I’m on the New York City subways about 2 days a week and open invitation to anyone on this thread who would like to see firsthand, come to NYC and I’ll take you on a tour and we can assess together how grave the homeless situation is in the MTA right now. It is at least 10x as bad as it was pre-COVID. It is frightening, it smells revolting, there are people screaming nonsensically at all hours of the night and day, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence is real. The two men who were also physically involved in restraining this man were black and hispanic, respectively. Multiple people sensed that this man was a significant threat and I am inclined to believe that was so. I do not expect that a jury will convict this ex-Marine.

Adding that women in the subway now think of Michelle Go. Woman Dies After Being Pushed Onto Subway Tracks in Times Square (Published 2022)
I think of that woman every day when I’m down there.
Click to expand...
bbm

Maybe not. Or maybe they will recall what they've done in similar situations... switch cars, headphones up... and decide that turning a mental health and homelessness epidemic into the purge is not the way.
 
kittythehare said:
The difference between last year’s attacks and Neely’s death was the video. We can see the panic on Neely’s face, the life slowly extinguished from his eyes. We can see others who do not intervene. We can see the face of his killer, which remains calm and largely expressionless throughout the struggle. We cannot see what precipitated the event; bystanders have told reporters that Neely had not attacked anyone and seemed like he was in distress. According to reports, he ranted that he was “fed up and hungry,” and, so, we are faced with the senselessness of what we are watching, and try to fill in some motive, however imagined it may be. In this case, many people outraged by Neely’s death seem to agree with Lander’s speculation—the blond ex-marine had acted out of a lawless impulse to punish Neely for the crime of being homeless and in distress. Homelessness and erratic, nonviolent behavior, in this case, received a death sentence. The longevity of such viral moments depends, in large part, on the outrage being reproduced over and over—on whether they confirm a pattern that people actually care enough about to notice.

www.newyorker.com

Jordan Neely’s Death and a Critical Moment in the Homelessness Crisis

After the homeless young man was killed on the subway, there has been a rare flash of national attention on the issue. Can the outrage be harnessed for actual change?
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
Click to expand...

This article expresses so well the fact (IMO) that the problem of homelessness (with accompanying mental illness and drug abuse) is not solvable in the near future by any “solutions” proposed by government officials, however well-meaning they may be. I’ve observed that, in so many other situations, the solutions enacted end up creating unforeseen problems that then require solving…and on and on ad infinitum.

Extermination is not the solution, however, if we want to retain any semblance of human decency.
JMO
 
caradana said:
I’m on the New York City subways about 2 days a week and open invitation to anyone on this thread who would like to see firsthand, come to NYC and I’ll take you on a tour and we can assess together how grave the homeless situation is in the MTA right now. It is at least 10x as bad as it was pre-COVID. It is frightening, it smells revolting, there are people screaming nonsensically at all hours of the night and day, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence is real. The two men who were also physically involved in restraining this man were black and hispanic, respectively. Multiple people sensed that this man was a significant threat and I am inclined to believe that was so. I do not expect that a jury will convict this ex-Marine.

Adding that women in the subway now think of Michelle Go. Woman Dies After Being Pushed Onto Subway Tracks in Times Square (Published 2022)
I think of that woman every day when I’m down there.
Click to expand...

I believe you. It must be scary and gross and yes, the situation is grave. However, none of the issues you mention (frightening, smells revolting, screaming nonsensically, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence…which may or may not be real) is a capital offense, is it?

Since this situation is not solvable in the near future, IMO it is up to individuals riding the trains to personally assess the danger they see and move out of harm’s way if possible before harm befalls them. Obviously, Michelle Go did not see the threat. But what you describe are mostly situations that individuals can handle or ignore without resorting to violence.

Neely, to our knowledge so far, had done nothing deserving of death. And quite frankly, if a former Marine does not have the skill to use a blood chokehold briefly to immobilize a perceived threat, he has no business using this potentially lethal force on anyone. He was clearly using a chokehold on Neely’s windpipe, which goes against the Marine training @kittythehare posted above. Of course Neely would struggle! You would too. I don’t believe the Marine intended to kill Neely, but, like Derek Chauvin, he had the training to know that what he was doing could lead to death. And yet he persisted. Why?

As a society do we consider him a hero? It saddens and angers me that so many do. And again, Websleuths is victim-friendly.

JMO
 
Lilibet said:
I believe you. It must be scary and gross and yes, the situation is grave. However, none of the issues you mention (frightening, smells revolting, screaming nonsensically, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence…which may or may not be real) is a capital offense, is it?

Since this situation is not solvable in the near future, IMO it is up to individuals riding the trains to personally assess the danger they see and move out of harm’s way if possible before harm befalls them. Obviously, Michelle Go did not see the threat. But what you describe are mostly situations that individuals can handle or ignore without resorting to violence.

Neely, to our knowledge so far, had done nothing deserving of death. And quite frankly, if a former Marine does not have the skill to use a blood chokehold briefly to immobilize a perceived threat, he has no business using this potentially lethal force on anyone. He was clearly using a chokehold on Neely’s windpipe, which goes against the Marine training @kittythehare posted above. Of course Neely would struggle! You would too. I don’t believe the Marine intended to kill Neely, but, like Derek Chauvin, he had the training to know that what he was doing could lead to death. And yet he persisted. Why?

As a society do we consider him a hero? It saddens and angers me that so many do. And again, Websleuths is victim-friendly.

JMO
Click to expand...
That is the case in a most eloquent nutshell.
Thank you.
 
caradana said:
I’m on the New York City subways about 2 days a week and open invitation to anyone on this thread who would like to see firsthand, come to NYC and I’ll take you on a tour and we can assess together how grave the homeless situation is in the MTA right now. It is at least 10x as bad as it was pre-COVID. It is frightening, it smells revolting, there are people screaming nonsensically at all hours of the night and day, urinating and defecating on themselves and the threat of irrational violence is real. The two men who were also physically involved in restraining this man were black and hispanic, respectively. Multiple people sensed that this man was a significant threat and I am inclined to believe that was so. I do not expect that a jury will convict this ex-Marine.

Adding that women in the subway now think of Michelle Go. Woman Dies After Being Pushed Onto Subway Tracks in Times Square (Published 2022)
I think of that woman every day when I’m down there.
Click to expand...


It’s hell for them 24/7 not just while commuting.

I have never felt anything but care for the “least of these”.

I see them where they have had no control over their urine or bowels as they lay on wet blankets out of their mind screaming.

It’s wrenched and unbearable to see but much worst to live.

I don’t turn my head. I look, nod, smile or speak a greeting. I’m cautious because of WS but I don’t turn away in disgust.

I don’t think of others bad acts I think of how I can help by giving to the homeless outreach and shelter.



It’s their world too.





all imo
 
Jade said:
It’s hell for them 24/7 not just while commuting.

I have never felt anything but care for the “least of these”.

I see them where they have had no control over their urine or bowels as they lay on wet blankets out of their mind screaming.

It’s wrenched and unbearable to see but much worst to live.

I don’t turn my head. I look, nod, smile or speak a greeting. I’m cautious because of WS but I don’t turn away in disgust.

I don’t think of others bad acts I think of how I can help by giving to the homeless outreach and shelter.



It’s their world too.





all imo
Click to expand...


I think-
-and there go I except for the grace of God
and that is my sincere truth.
If I have money I'll give them cigarettes.
I'll sit with them too and be present and the truth of the matter, for me, is that they're a lot more likely to provide me with what I need at any given moment than anyone else I know.

They are not without compassion.
They grieve and they break when one of them dies and they go crazy crazy crazy and you can see the pain in them.

They are the first people I will seek in any city.
It's a different reality but ours is not the only reality.

It's a matter of filtration.

Our filters differ.
Our humanity is the same.
We are not better, we just think we are because we are taught that difference is a negative thing.
It simply is not.

I can't dance yet watching him move, I could FEEL the spirit of his music move to me and in me . He was sharing the most beautiful spiritual energy, that is why people who knew him said he made them smile.

He was an artist.
I pray he will be freed from the spirit that killed him, the spirit that could not bear the light in him.

I pray he will dance in spirit in Divine protection now and forever.

R.I. P. Jordan Neely.
Love to you.
 
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