NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

Status
Not open for further replies.
These are two of the most beautiful posts ever written on WS. I read them and weep for “the least of these.” And I weep for those who cannot see that these unfortunate fellow humans deserve our compassion. Empathy (feeling the pain of others in our heart) for those who are less fortunate than we are is the essence of love. Thank you @Jade and @kittythehare for your loving expressions.
JMO

It’s hell for them 24/7 not just while commuting.

I have never felt anything but care for the “least of these”.

I see them where they have had no control over their urine or bowels as they lay on wet blankets out of their mind screaming.

It’s wrenched and unbearable to see but much worst to live.

I don’t turn my head. I look, nod, smile or speak a greeting. I’m cautious because of WS but I don’t turn away in disgust.

I don’t think of others bad acts I think of how I can help by giving to the homeless outreach and shelter.

It’s their world too.

all imo

I think-
-and there go I except for the grace of God
and that is my sincere truth.
If I have money I'll give them cigarettes.
I'll sit with them too and be present and the truth of the matter, for me, is that they're a lot more likely to provide me with what I need at any given moment than anyone else I know.

They are not without compassion.
They grieve and they break when one of them dies and they go crazy crazy crazy and you can see the pain in them.

They are the first people I will seek in any city.
It's a different reality but ours is not the only reality.

It's a matter of filtration.

Our filters differ.
Our humanity is the same.
We are not better, we just think we are because we are taught that difference is a negative thing.
It simply is not.

I can't dance yet watching him move, I could FEEL the spirit of his music move to me and in me . He was sharing the most beautiful spiritual energy, that is why people who knew him said he made them smile.

He was an artist.
I pray he will be freed from the spirit that killed him, the spirit that could not bear the light in him.

I pray he will dance in spirit in Divine protection now and forever.

R.I. P. Jordan Neely.
Love to you.
 
Prior to his death, Neely stayed in public spaces, according to Shannon Hartman, who knew him from the area around Grand Central Station. She remembered his Michael Jackson impersonations fondly, and said he would always ask her how she was doing.

“He used to sew his clothes, when he danced, by the bathrooms inside Grand Central. Very sweet man,” she recalled Friday morning, outside of a Dunkin’ Donuts on Lexington Avenue. “He even gave me money. Like, the homeless look out for the homeless. It’s something we do.”

More than 77,000 people slept in a city homeless shelter this week, a number that’s surged over the last year. The number of street homeless New Yorkers is harder to track, though the city’s annual HOPE census, conducted in January, estimated there were 3,439 unsheltered residents at the time.


“To be aware is to be alive,” said Kevin, who declined to provide his last name, standing outside of the 30th Street Intake Shelter for homeless men in Manhattan. “Out there you are vulnerable. It’s safer in here behind doors.”

 
And even if you do force someone into a mental health facility, it doesn't accomplish much if they're then released back into a life of severe mental illness (and likely homelessness).

Unfortunately, in the absence of appropriate mental health services, it's often left to the police to intervene - and you end up with the additional complexity of funnelling people who are mentally ill into the criminal justice system and creating the possibility of criminal convictions + sentences for people where that is really not an appropriate result.
SBM for focus.
That's all rather a sad comment on the state of mental health services in the US and Canada. MOO.
 
Granted, it was scary for the passengers. But could no one on that train offer this clearly distressed man their own drink or snack or seat? Could no one show Jordan they cared? Apparently they’d rather watch him be murdered than show him human kindness. Could no brave young man persuade the marine to let go. Could no feisty old lady hit the marine in his butt with her cane (hard) to distract him (speaking as one who would have). This took long enough that someone could have stepped in to help Neely, rather than help the marine kill him. Evil triumphed that day.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”
Yes.
I'm sure it was scary for some (or most?) passengers, but being scared is not a reason for someone else (in this case the marine) to jump in and kill. Idk what happened exactly - I wasn't there, Idk how aggressive Neely really was, maybe watching the marine was scary too? - imo I would have been too scared to hit the marine but I probably would have managed at least to speak up - "Hey, stop this! What are doing? He's dying... Can't you see?" sort of thing. IME once somebody speaks up that can get the ball rolling, otherwise other bystanders like to ignore what's going on.

In this case unfortunately the marine got the ball rolling whereas Neely needed somebody intent on him surviving, even if restraint was necessary too. And yeah I agree it would have been more appropriate for the other 2 men to restrain the marine from overly restraining Neely. Surely somebody who learns how to restrain would learn to do so in such a way that the person being restrained doesn't die? I don't have an example off the top of my head, but people do get restrained and remain alive until the police arrive. MOO
 
The ex marine would likely have been trained in close quarter techniques for blood and air choke holds.

A well executed blood choke will see the target rendered unconscious within 30 seconds. And then you put them in the recovery position.

A prolonged air choke is not something you would use in a situation like this.

The longer you hold someone like that the more likely you will kill or seriously harm them.
 
The ex marine would likely have been trained in close quarter techniques for blood and air choke holds.

A well executed blood choke will see the target rendered unconscious within 30 seconds. And then you put them in the recovery position.

A prolonged air choke is not something you would use in a situation like this.

The longer you hold someone like that the more likely you will kill or seriously harm them.
Really? Wouldn't the Marines train to kill quickly?

I don't think the ex Marine knew what he was doing. And that's why Mr Neely died. JMO.
 
"The former Marine who put 30-year-old Jordan Neely in a chokehold on a subway train in New York prior to his death on Monday released a statement in which he said that he acted in self defense in the incident and that he 'never intended to harm' the schizophrenic."

 
Press release from <his> lawyers. Quel Surprise. Not

'Earlier this week Daniel Penny was involved in a tragic incident on the NYC Subway, which ended in the death of Jordan Neely. We would first like to express, on behalf of Daniel Penny, our condolences to those close to Mr. Neely,' the press release begins.

'Mr Neely had a documented history of violent and erratic behavior, the apparent result of ongoing and untreated mental illness. When Mr Neely began aggressively threatening Daniel Penny and the other passengers, Daniel, with the help of others, acted to protect themselves, until help arrived. Daniel never intended to harm Mr Neely and could not have foreseen his untimely death.'

'For too long, those suffering from mental illness have been treated with indifference. We hope that out of this awful tragedy will come a new commitment by our elected officials to address the mental health crisis on our streets and subways,' it concluded.

The statement was issued through the law firm Raiser and Kenniff on Friday evening

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Lennon Edwards, a lawyer for the family of Mr. Neely, said in an interview on Friday that Mr. Neely’s death was unacceptable. “He was robbed of his life in a brutal way by someone who decided that they were judge, jury and executioner on the spot,” he said. “We can’t have vigilantes, and we can’t have people taking the law into their own hands.”


At 2:29 p.m., another passenger can be heard in the video saying that his wife had been in the military and knew about chokeholds, and warning the men that they should make sure Mr. Neely had not defecated on himself.
“You don’t want to catch a murder charge,” he said. “You got a hell of a chokehold, man.”
The men then placed Mr. Neely, who was motionless, on his side. A transit worker can be heard over the loudspeaker calling for the police.

“He’s all right,” the passenger who had given the warnings said. “He ain’t gonna die.”

If Mr. Penny is charged by the Manhattan district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, prosecutors would presumably have to prove that he used deadly force without having believed that Mr. Neely was also using deadly force or was about to. Mr. Edwards and his partner, Donte Mills, the lawyers for Mr. Neely’s family, said that witnessed had told them that Mr. Penny came up behind Mr. Neely and grabbed him.

 
From the press release by Penny’s lawyers…

Mr Neely had a documented history of violent and erratic behavior, the apparent result of ongoing and untreated mental illness. When Mr Neely began aggressively threatening Daniel Penny and the other passengers, Daniel, with the help of others, acted to protect themselves, until help arrived. Daniel never intended to harm Mr Neely and could not have foreseen his untimely death.'

I will point out once again that Penny did not know anything about Mr Neely’s arrest record for “violent and erratic behavior,” so that fact is irrelevant and insulting to bring up in this context. Penny and the others who helped him kill Mr Neely need to explain exactly how Mr Neely aggressively threatened Penny and other passengers. Penny grabbed Mr Neely from behind, so there was no direct threat to Penny.

I believe Penny that he never intended to harm Mr Neely, but with his Marine training he should have known a chokehold can be deadly if done improperly and for too long. If he and the passengers needed protecting from whatever threat he believed Mr. Neely presented, there were certainly safer ways to accomplish that while still protecting Mr Neely’s life. He could have grabbed him around his arms and chest and restrained him safely with help. It appears that adrenaline took over and common sense and compassion left the room.
JMO
 
From the press release by Penny’s lawyers…



I will point out once again that Penny did not know anything about Mr Neely’s arrest record for “violent and erratic behavior,” so that fact is irrelevant and insulting to bring up in this context. Penny and the others who helped him kill Mr Neely need to explain exactly how Mr Neely aggressively threatened Penny and other passengers. Penny grabbed Mr Neely from behind, so there was no direct threat to Penny.

I believe Penny that he never intended to harm Mr Neely, but with his Marine training he should have known a chokehold can be deadly if done improperly and for too long. If he and the passengers needed protecting from whatever threat he believed Mr. Neely presented, there were certainly safer ways to accomplish that while still protecting Mr Neely’s life. He could have grabbed him around his arms and chest and restrained him safely with help. It appears that adrenaline took over and common sense and compassion left the room.
JMO
I don't believe he didn't intend harming Jordan.
He failed to stop when he was alerted that he was killing the man



He had training on choke, he had to have known what prolonged choking can do.

Also Jordan Neely was unarmed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
190
Guests online
4,333
Total visitors
4,523

Forum statistics

Threads
592,448
Messages
17,969,062
Members
228,774
Latest member
OccasionalMallard
Back
Top