NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #3

[Forager]

Came across an interesting read written by a PI, Bill Warner.

http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2016/09/dad-of-murdered-queens-jogger-karina.html?spref=tw&m=1

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Thanks for posting that! He makes he point that the Spring Creek Park is easily accessible, on its northern end, from the Belt Parkway. That was news to me, and isn't apparent on Google's map or satellite imagery, but if you trace the Belt using Google Streetview, you can see three spots where you can drive into the park from the service road that runs alongside the Belt. And they seem to be pretty well used. During the minute or two that it would have taken the Google camera truck to pass the Park area, it caught a couple of bikers, a pedestrian and a parked pickup along the service road.



The spot in the photo is marked by the little blue camera icon on this map.

 

[deedee21]

Well ok. He passed 101 with flying colors. [emoji4] But, if I were
he, I wouldn't be giving info out for free if he's looking for a job.

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He did not give out any information.

 

[Rocky1]

Thanks for posting that! He makes he point that the Spring Creek Park is easily accessible, on its northern end, from the Belt Parkway. That was news to me, and isn't apparent on Google's map or satellite imagery, but if you trace the Belt using Google Streetview, you can see three spots where you can drive into the park from the service road that runs alongside the Belt. And they seem to be pretty well used. During the minute or two that it would have taken the Google camera truck to pass the Park area, it caught a couple of bikers, a pedestrian and a parked pickup along the service road.

The spot in the photo is marked by the little blue camera icon on this map.

Nice map.
What about this scenario for conversation sake.
Perp is a neighbor. lives close. In fact so close he lives towards the end of 84th street, and can see KV from his house. He looks out his window, and sees KV warming up to jog, and sees her father isn't with her, so he jumps on his bike, and pedals down 84th street right where that bike/pedestrian path in your map happens to dump out on, if you follow it north Then he rides south on the path and into the park. where he is now ahead of her and can hide in the grass and ambush her. He has enough time because KV has not only taken the time to run the distance she did, but also has taken time to warm up before her run.(if she did) He does what he did, and then pedals back home, escaping the cams because LE is focused on checking cams along 83rd.st. facing into the marsh, instead of 84th street. Nobody thinks twice seeing him on his bike from the belt parkway, because he is on the bike path. It also explains how it was known the father wasn't going with her that day. Just a thought .

 

[Inthedetails]

Thanks for posting that! He makes he point that the Spring Creek Park is easily accessible, on its northern end, from the Belt Parkway. That was news to me, and isn't apparent on Google's map or satellite imagery, but if you trace the Belt using Google Streetview, you can see three spots where you can drive into the park from the service road that runs alongside the Belt. And they seem to be pretty well used. During the minute or two that it would have taken the Google camera truck to pass the Park area, it caught a couple of bikers, a pedestrian and a parked pickup along the service road.

View attachment 101997

The spot in the photo is marked by the little blue camera icon on this map.

View attachment 101998

Love the map - thank you. Since the beginning I've been thinking of bike(s), and this does seem like a spot bikes would enter the park. I'm not totally tied to that theory, but it's one that just seems to fit.

I'm thinking the perp would have been messed up after the attack, got on his bike, and rode home. This is my "young person/s" theory.

My other theory is an older male who walked into the park, perhaps arriving in the area on public transportation. By older, I mean older than teen/young adult, not an "old man." Is there a subway or bus stop near this entrance?

For all we know, the perp didn't immediately leave the park itself. If he was injured in the attack, he might have hid somewhere and attempted to clean up somehow. The park is huge, and even if people were searching for Karina, he could've been nearby for awhile and then sneaked out when it was dark.

jmopinion, tossing around ideas

 

[Rocky1]

Love the map - thank you. Since the beginning I've been thinking of bike(s), and this does seem like a spot bikes would enter the park. I'm not totally tied to that theory, but it's one that just seems to fit.

I'm thinking the perp would have been messed up after the attack, got on his bike, and rode home. This is my "young person/s" theory.

My other theory is an older male who walked into the park, perhaps arriving in the area on public transportation. By older, I mean older than teen/young adult, not an "old man." Is there a subway or bus stop near this entrance?

For all we know, the perp didn't immediately leave the park itself. If he was injured in the attack, he might have hid somewhere and attempted to clean up somehow. The park is huge, and even if people were searching for Karina, he could've been nearby for awhile and then sneaked out when it was dark.

jmopinion, tossing around ideas

I followed the map with the bike path either way. Not sure about the bus route, but if you follow it south from the park, the first exit from the path is over the water on Fountain Ave. in Brooklyn. If you follow it north, it dumps out on 84th street. With the exception of the park, it appears that there is a chain link fence that runs the distance of the path on one side, and of course the parkway on the other with the guardrail, not to say the chain link fence isn't cut someplace, where someone could slip through.

Just to add, I wouldn't expect him to hang around too long. I am thinking they had LE at either end of that bike path once she was discovered, and it didn't get dark until 8:30 or so

 

[Lauranyc83]

The bike path and northern side of Belt Pkwy was the next step investigators were looking into. The perp must of exited and entered from there since there are no cameras over there. This is why the investigators started to focus on East New York.

In the beginning of the thread 1 I had mentioned and screen shotted the bike path etc. I use to ride my bike on that path and there are many entrances into Spring Creek, man made and non man made. There is also a homeless encampment right there as well. Cars can not access the bike path as you mentioned. There's just no possible way for a car to get onto that side without jumping the guardrail.

Just giving some local info =)

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[Lauranyc83]

Love the map - thank you. Since the beginning I've been thinking of bike(s), and this does seem like a spot bikes would enter the park. I'm not totally tied to that theory, but it's one that just seems to fit.

I'm thinking the perp would have been messed up after the attack, got on his bike, and rode home. This is my "young person/s" theory.

My other theory is an older male who walked into the park, perhaps arriving in the area on public transportation. By older, I mean older than teen/young adult, not an "old man." Is there a subway or bus stop near this entrance?

For all we know, the perp didn't immediately leave the park itself. If he was injured in the attack, he might have hid somewhere and attempted to clean up somehow. The park is huge, and even if people were searching for Karina, he could've been nearby for awhile and then sneaked out when it was dark.

jmopinion, tossing around ideas

No, no bus stops or train stations near this entrance. Here are the closet trains as posted earlier back

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[Momoffourboys]

I am starting to think its a local who knew her routine. Someone who could see her running every day, from his home. Someone who waited for her to be alone.

 

[Rocky1]

The bike path and northern side of Belt Pkwy was the next step investigators were looking into. The perp must of exited and entered from there since there are no cameras over there. This is why the investigators started to focus on East New York.

In the beginning of the thread 1 I had mentioned and screen shotted the bike path etc. I use to ride my bike on that path and there are many entrances into Spring Creek, man made and non man made. There is also a homeless encampment right there as well. Cars can not access the bike path as you mentioned. There's just no possible way for a car to get onto that side without jumping the guardrail.

Just giving some local info =)

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Do you have any idea the distance from KVs house down 84th st. then south on that bike path to the park entrance is off hand?
If not I can measure it.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

I agree that Mr. Warner does not sound as clever as Mr. Brennan.. Mr Brennan sounds great. I wonder if mr vetrano could hire him?

 

[Starkville]

This mystery runner came forward voluntarily, once he realized police were looking for him. I understand that people were suspicious, but he has been cleared by LE.

Phil Vetrano was also sidelined by an "injury".

 

[Momoffourboys]

This mystery runner came forward voluntarily, once he realized police were looking for him. I understand that people were suspicious, but he has been cleared by LE.

Phil Vetrano was also sidelined by an "injury".

BBM

What are you insinuating with "injury"?

And welcome to WS!

 

[deedee21]

Karina was a speech pathologist. Perp could be a co-worker. Also, I wonder what age group the patients are.

 

[Inthedetails]

"Grieving father, Philip Vetrano, joined the estimated 30,000 runners who finished the 3.1. mile course from Brooklyn to the World Trade Center. That's the route hero FDNY Firefighter Stephen Siller took on Sept. 11, 2001, as he ran to help those inside the burning towers.

On Sunday, Vetrano, a retired firefighter, ran the charity route with a reward poster pinned on his back."

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ad-runs-tunnel-towers-event-article-1.2805968

 

[Sgt. Friday]

Thats 101. It dosent have anything to do with their investigational skills.

I agree, I am a retired Det. Sgt. With the NYPD . I am also a licensed PI in NY . I am not sure what a PI from out of NY would bring to the table in this case. I am not sure if a PI would help at all in this case given the resources the NYPD has allotted to this case. Currently they have a task force assigned and from what I can tell it will be science that solves this case (DNA) . There is also a possibility that a person arrested on another crime would look to bargain info on this case to save himself. These situations are only brokered by the District attorney's office not PI's. It's been my experience since I retired that most active detectives would interact with PI only if they knew the PI's background on the NYPD . They wouldn't just open the case file because the father of the victim decided to hire an outside investigator. It is just not reality. These cases take time ,we (detectives and prosecutors only get one chance to prosecute someone for murder (Double Jeopardy). I understand the father is going through every parents worst nightmare but he must be patient with the NYPD they have a proven and effective track record in cases but it takes time and much effort to bring to a successful conclusion.

 

[chrissybk]

On this map I live right outside the circle where it says van siclen ave. When you go straight on flatlands avenue passing pennsylvania avenue and van siclen avenue, about 2 blocks up is Fountain Avenue which is an entrance to the Gateway Mall. There is a road for cars and a bike/foot path leading to the mall and past it, right to the belt where you can then cross over to the other side which would lead to any number of entrances leading to where Karina was found. Coming from fountain avenue, you can go straight to van siclen avenue and make a right. Staying on van siclen would bring you right to the 3 train stop on van siclen that you see in the map. From the time you make the right on van siclen to when you reach the 3 train stop is about a 15 minute walk.

 

[Forager]

The bike path and northern side of Belt Pkwy was the next step investigators were looking into. The perp must of exited and entered from there since there are no cameras over there. This is why the investigators started to focus on East New York.

In the beginning of the thread 1 I had mentioned and screen shotted the bike path etc. I use to ride my bike on that path and there are many entrances into Spring Creek, man made and non man made. There is also a homeless encampment right there as well. Cars can not access the bike path as you mentioned. There's just no possible way for a car to get onto that side without jumping the guardrail.

Just giving some local info =)

I see what you mean. I'd mistaken that asphalted set of bike lanes for a Belt Parkway service road. You are right, the you can't get from the Belt Parkway to the bike lanes without jumping a guard rail. Thanks for pointing that out. I've corrected the map.

 

[Rocky1]

I see what you mean. I'd mistaken that asphalted set of bike lanes for a Belt Parkway service road. You are right, the you can't get from the Belt Parkway to the bike lanes without jumping a guard rail. Thanks for pointing that out. I've corrected the map.

Although I am assuming the point is that day, no vehicle could exit out of that park without exiting out on 83rd st There must be access to the bike path someplace. If you follow the bike path south on Foragers map, you will see a pick up truck backed in off of the bike path.

 

[FindHG]

Father of slain Howard Beach jogger runs for daughter at Stephen Siller Tunnel to Towers charity event
By Danny Lewis, Reuven Blau, New York Daily News
Sunday, Sept 25 16, 8:08 pm
A report from the race

 

[Inthedetails]

I agree, I am a retired Det. Sgt. With the NYPD . I am also a licensed PI in NY . I am not sure what a PI from out of NY would bring to the table in this case. I am not sure if a PI would help at all in this case given the resources the NYPD has allotted to this case. Currently they have a task force assigned and from what I can tell it will be science that solves this case (DNA) . There is also a possibility that a person arrested on another crime would look to bargain info on this case to save himself. These situations are only brokered by the District attorney's office not PI's. It's been my experience since I retired that most active detectives would interact with PI only if they knew the PI's background on the NYPD . They wouldn't just open the case file because the father of the victim decided to hire an outside investigator. It is just not reality. These cases take time ,we (detectives and prosecutors only get one chance to prosecute someone for murder (Double Jeopardy). I understand the father is going through every parents worst nightmare but he must be patient with the NYPD they have a proven and effective track record in cases but it takes time and much effort to bring to a successful conclusion.

Great info - thanks. Glad to have you here.