GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[RANCH]

I just can't believe that you would forget your child/children are in their car seats after you strapped them in. I don't get it.

Even if you can somehow prove that you forgot, and I'm not sure how you do that, it's not a legitimate excuse in my opinion.

Rodriguez shouldn't even be fighting this. He should plead guilty as soon as possible. JMO

 

[blue22]

37 children a year die this way. 5 children die a day due to child abuse.

OK? Are either acceptable? Are you saying that more children dying from child abuse makes this not important?

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding.

 

[RANCH]

OK? Are either acceptable? Are you saying that more children dying from child abuse makes this not important?

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding.

Besides, leaving a child in a hot car to die is child abuse at the extreme. JMO

 

[Jackielee09]

OK? Are either acceptable? Are you saying that more children dying from child abuse makes this not important?

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding.

Definitely misunderstanding.
Im saying all horrible. Imagine if 5 kids a day died in hot cars, there would be a frenzy of public outcry. All the children matter equally.

 

[gitana1]

IIRC, people were sympathetic too Ross at this stage of the investigation.

Ross wanted to be free of obligations. So he killed his kid. This dad had three other children. They're still alive. He's still obligated.

 

[gitana1]

And if investigators believe this was a tragic accident, why has he been charged? They didn’t have to charge him with anything. I have a feeling police are looking at his cell phone, his computers, his financial records...I won’t be at all surprised when we find out there’s more to this story.

Just for the record I believe 100% that a parent/caregiver can accidentally leave a child in the car without any malicious intent.

It just depends on the state or county:

“There isn’t any rhyme or reason to why it varies from state to state,” said Amber Rollins, a director with KidsAndCars.org, a nonprofit child-safety group. “Even case by case, you never know what’s going to happen.”

Cases of Kids Who Die in Hot Cars Shows Inconsistency of Charges


Kids and Cars looked at cases dating back to 1968 of children dying from heat stroke in cars. However, most of the data is from 1990 to 2014. When it comes to accidental cases, the organization found about 28 percent of accidental cases result in convictions, no one is charged in 39 percent cases, and the others either had an unknown outcome or never made it through to conviction. The conviction rate is higher for cases where someone knowingly left a child in a car, at 60 percent.

That leaves a lot to the discretion of the individual prosecutor, which makes sense in a lot of situations, but when talking about the accidental death of a person’s child feels rather arbitrary. Accidentally leaving your child in the car while you go to work is a tragedy whether it occurs in Austin, Helotes, or Arkansas, but it’s only a crime depending on which prosecutor’s desk the case lands on. That’s an inconsistency that is hard to justify, given the circumstances that the person who may or may not be facing charges is already suffering through. Still, on comment sections and social media, there are plenty who demand additional punishment.

https://www.kidsandcars.org/2016/08...hose-children-die-in-hot-cars-but-not-others/

 

[gitana1]

Why is this so prevalent since the early 1990s when we never heard of such a thing prior to this time- if it happened it was rare---

Rear facing car seats. The spike is exactly in line with the switch to rear facing car seats. This didn't happen to moms in the 60's and 70's whose babies were in a car seat in the front seat.

 

[gitana1]

I don't think it's happening more. We're just hearing about it more because of the WWW, national news shows, etc. Before the Internet, how would a news station in Charleston hear about a hot car death in Vegas? They probably wouldn't so it would not have been in the daily Charleston newspaper.

No. It's absolutely happening more:

"Hot-car deaths increased in the mid-1990s as states began mandating that car seats be placed in the back seat to avoid harm from front-seat air bags."
Despite Prevention Efforts, Hot-Car Casualties Are Rising

 

[gitana1]

I don't doubt the family's horror and grief, not even the Dad's but did he not glance in his rearview mirror even once and see the carseats behind him? Did he not smell the poor babies filthy diapers when he got back in the car to leave work? Me and me alone but I don't buy ANYBODY'S story about blacking or blanking out. If that is true then there was some kind of outside influence on board here whether illicit or prescription drugs and/or alcohol. This is my opinion only and as far as I know, the father has not been accused of this or tested either. Something made him forget his babies until they were dead.

"We were talking about how pretty [Ray Ray] looked that day and how her teacher would be so excited to see her," Reeves said. "She just moved to the 1-year-old caterpillar class. It was tropical day, the class theme. She was wearing the dress her teacher gave her for her birthday."

Amidst the couple's conversation, Reeves pulled into a restaurant parking lot. She said she had noticed how quiet her husband became when they began talking about their daughter.

"I didn't even get the car turned off and he said, 'Just go back to the office. Please go back to the office immediately.'" Reeves recalled. "I thought he had forgotten something and I said, 'OK, whatever.' I turned the car around got to the red light and he said, 'Run the light.'"

"I asked him, 'What's going on?' and then he told me: 'I can't remember dropping Ray Ray at day care this morning.'"

'Forgotten Baby Syndrome': A Parent’s Nightmare of Hot Car Death

 

[gitana1]

Law Enforcement almost always goes with the “they’ve been punished enough” ideas in cases like this where they truly think there was an accident. They know it’s going to be hard to find a jury who will convict a person who killed their own child accidentally.

No they don't. It all depends on the prosecutor.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

If the State can find evidence that the family was having any financial or martial problems they may up the charges against Rodriguez.

JMO

Respectfully, what family with kids doesn't have at least one of these problems? I would hope they would have a lot more (like Ross Harris levels of evidence) before doing so. This is a horrible tragedy, and he does need to be held accountable. But I don't see any evidence that he did this on purpose.

 

[gitana1]

After the Cooper Harris case I will no longer consider these hot car deaths as accidental.

The only option is murder. JMO

Oh I disagree. It was clear to me with his case. He intentionally murdered his son.

But with other cases it does seem absolutely accidental. Whether it's a criminally actionable accident due to negligence is up for debate.

 

[gitana1]

when he parked up to go to work why didn't he interact with them if he is so doting?

did he literally park, jump out and walk off to work?

would they not be awake and babbling/talking? making their presence known?

No. Obviously if he was interacting with them it would make no sense that he would say goodbye and lock them in the car.

In most cases where this is unintentional and caused by some druggy going into a house to get high or into a bar to get drunk, he baby was sleeping and/or sick and unusually quiet.

It's a perfect storm of quiet baby, something out of the routine, new baby exhaustion and automatic driving.

 

[gitana1]

Cooper Harris was in a rear facing car seat.

That fact didn't help Ross Harris one bit. JMO

Neither did the fact that he researched hot car deaths, had to make the turn to either go to daycare or go to his office less than a minute after he buckled his clearly awake and talking (on surveillance video) child, went back to his car at lunch and looked into the back seat, seemed unconcerned when his son's corpse was found, and was having affairs and making statements to his affairs about not liking his life.

I'm not sure how one can begin to find this case is exactly the same since we don't know all the facts yet.

In the Cooper Harris case there were many details that rendered the position of the car seat not exculpatory.

 

[RANCH]

Oh I disagree. It was clear to me with his case. He intentionally murdered his son.

But with other cases it does seem absolutely accidental. Whether it's a criminally actionable accident due to negligence is up for debate.

It wasn't clear to me.

Besides, I now feel that there should be punishment for all people who let helpless children die a horrible death.

Life without parole like Ross Harris? Maybe not. But serious time in prison? Yes. JMO

 

[blue22]

Definitely misunderstanding.
Im saying all horrible. Imagine if 5 kids a day died in hot cars, there would be a frenzy of public outcry. All the children matter equally.

Got it! I agree completely.

 

[gitana1]

It wasn't clear to me.

Besides, I now feel that there should be punishment for all people who let helpless children die a horrible death.

Life without parole like Ross Harris? Maybe not. But serious time in prison? Yes. JMO

Well it was clear to the jurors who convicted him. I think the evidence was super strong. They watched him go to his car at lunch and look into the back seat. Two jurors looked at each other and nodded during a requested playback of that moment, right when they saw him glance into the back seat.

 

[mickey2942]

Ross wanted to be free of obligations. So he killed his kid. This dad had three other children. They're still alive. He's still obligated.

Child support for three kids, is much less than for five kids.

I wonder if the twins were "planned" or a happy surprise. And twins can be quite a stressful event. Maybe Daddy wasn't quite as thrilled as Mama.

 

[gitana1]

Child support for three kids, is much less than for five kids.

I wonder if the twins were "planned" or a happy surprise. And twins can be quite a stressful event. Maybe Daddy wasn't quite as thrilled as Mama.

It's possible. But they're married. Not separated. I'm sure we will find out more.

 

[RANCH]

Neither did the fact that he researched hot car, deaths, had to make the turn to either go to daycare or go to his office less than a minute after he buckled his clearly awake and talking (on surveillance video) child, went back to his car at lunch and looked into the back seat, seemed unconcerned when his son's corpse was found, and was having affairs and making statements to his affairs about not liking his life.

I'm not sure how one can begin to find this case is exactly the same since we don't know all the facts yet.

In the Cooper Harris case there were many details that rendered the position of the car seat not exculpatory.

I don't see how anyone can forget a child is in the car whether it's one minute or 10.

I'm don't recall the Harris case details as being the same as you are describing. I'm not sure that's it's a fact that Ross looked in the back of the car at lunch.

Lunchtime: The exact time has not been specified. But, while taking a break from work, Harris rides to a nearby Home Depot store with some friends and purchases light bulbs. When they return, he goes to his SUV, opens the driver’s side door and places the bulbs in the car. It’s not known if he had any contact with his son. Police say Cooper probably died before noon.

Looking up hot car deaths doesn't make you a killer. Coopers mom Leanna looked up car deaths and she wasn't accused of anything.

Having affairs doesn't mean you are a killer. It does make you a bad person in the eyes of a juror. That helps greatly with getting a conviction for the State.

I'm sure the State is looking at Rodriguez in depth. If they can find anything that will make a jury feel he was concentrating on something other than the children that day they will use it to convict him of the crimes they have charged him with and possibly other more serious charges. JMO


Timeline of toddler’s death