NY - Rita Tangredi, 31, and Colleen McNamee, 20, murdered, 1993-94, John Biltroff *GUILTY* - #2

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Scorpio girl said:
I have no idea. But I do truly believe the Police have looked at the person
and that person is flying UNDER the radar.
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I agree that he or they having been flying under the radar for too long and its time to pay the piper. I have always sensed a few men but with whats going on lately with bittrolf...

I savor my chocolate at the end of each day.

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Bittrolff's progressed sun and solar arc sun is at 28 Leo.

What does this mean?

More information on him is going to come out, things you never knew.
Hopefully it will lead to Jessica Taylor confirmation that he is the one.
Because that will lead to more......

he's an evil guy.
Got his bd from a press member, and his chart shows a very very very evil man.
 
Scorpio girl said:
Bittrolff's progressed sun and solar arc sun is at 28 Leo.

What does this mean?

More information on him is going to come out, things you never knew.
Hopefully it will lead to Jessica Taylor confirmation that he is the one.
Because that will lead to more......

he's an evil guy.
Got his bd from a press member, and his chart shows a very very very evil man.
Click to expand...
I dont know what that means. I know the basic stuff like sun, moon, venus etc placements. I believe his sun is in cancer.

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Abcdefg- if what you are saying is true. Then I would expect Bittrollf is speaking another attorney and filing an appeal of some sort. The thing is on don't know if you are someone close to the Bittrolffs who would know something like this or if you are just going by articles. Because it's not unusual for us to hear things from the attorney on behalf of their client. Therefore of course it is the attorney arguing that Bittrolff admits to sleeping with the girls and not killing them. It would not be unusual for someone to first say they don't know how their DNA got there to saying it got there through consensual sex. Again if what you say is true and Bittrolff never admitted to sleeping with the girls and still says there is no way for his DNA to be there and his attorney is just doing this to help frame him, Bittrolff will be getting a new lawyer and accusing all involved in a elaborate set up. Again. With your LE, I ain't saying it isn't possible. I think time is gonna answer this for us.
 
buckeye05 said:
You realize that Jessica Taylor is one of the 10 "official" LISK victims right? Whether she actually is, is a topic of some debate, as the MO was quite different than the GB4. However, whoever killed Jessica Taylor is almost certainly the killer of Jane Doe #6. Same MO and disposal sites. I'd also look at him for the murders of Fire Island Jane Doe, Cherries, and Peaches.

Also interesting to note, Bittrolff's final victim Sandra Castillo, was mutilated. Sign of escalation that culminated in the "Manorville Butcher" murders?
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When we're looking at the connection between Manorville Jane Doe/Jane Doe #6 and Jessica Taylor we can't ignore the connections between those two cases and these guys (each found a short time after and short distance from the women's torsos):
https://identifyus.org/cases/2725
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?327690-Manorville-John-Doe-NamUS-2725
https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/13094

I am curious if there are any theories on what Bittrolff or any other POI may have been doing with middle aged, possibly Hispanic men around the time they were killing and dismembering Jane Doe #6 and Jessica Taylor?
 
Bittrolff's wife " Honey, what did you do today"?
Bittrolff "I slit Wilburs throat".
Family man my azz.
 
I don't know what to make of the Manorville John Doe cases honestly. The LISK murders seem to have been sexually motivated, and therefore were likely perpetrated by a straight male. So that leaves the question, if they are connected, why do we have male victims too? (Besides the trans Asian male at Gilgo, who I believe was likely killed very quickly once the killer realized he had been "tricked"). 2000 John Doe clearly died a violent death, suffering multiple traumatic injures, including neck injuries and a crushed larynx. This seems to indicate he was likely strangled, which is a very intimate, and potentially sexually exciting way to kill someone from a sadists point of view. Do we have any reason to believe that any of the POIs or suspects are bisexual though? Here's the real kicker however. Very, very different MO. Not the typical dismemberment murders seen in the area at the time, with the torso dumped in a rural area and the limbs disposed of at the beach. Considering the Manorville John Doe cases happened during the same time frame as the Manorville Butcher murders but with a vastly different MO, I think they are most likely a separate series.

Also worth noting that there was also a 2012 Manorville John Doe that a lot of people seem to forget about. These remains were found in the woods off of Wading River Rd in February of 2012. They were so old and sketetonized that there were plants growing through the remains when they were found.The striking thing about this particular John Doe is the method of disposal. He was wrapped in bed sheeting, black garbage bag, and duct tape. This is consistent with other past LISK victims that were wrapped up for disposal (plastic bags, blankets, burlap, ect). This was also closer to the time of the "non-dismemberment" GB4 murders.
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11010
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/nyregion/more-human-remains-are-found-on-long-island.html?mcubz=0

Overall, I'm leaning towards the John Doe's not being connected, but some elements of the 2000 and and 2012 cases do make me wonder.
 
deedee21 said:
Bittrolff's wife " Honey, what did you do today"?
Bittrolff "I slit Wilburs throat".
Family man my azz.
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Sad thing is that a creep like bittrolf can trick his family because they trust him. I would like to think i would notice my husband being odd bit love is blind.

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ADA said Bittrolff may be connected to other killings.
TRANSLATION. This case was dead in the water before and will remain that way. Bittrolff was not charged with Sandra Costillas murder. Dont expect him to be charged with anyone elses. Its a smokescreen. Meant to muddy the waters.
 
deedee21 said:
ADA said Bittrolff may be connected to other killings.
TRANSLATION. This case was dead in the water before and will remain that way. Bittrolff was not charged with Sandra Costillas murder. Dont expect him to be charged with anyone elses. Its a smokescreen. Meant to muddy the waters.
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Wow, what a great, in-depth analysis of the case. Brings so much new information to the table.
 
topratedsleuth said:
Yep, there's a whole lot of stuff earlier in this thread, when Bittrolff was first arrested, that would be helpful for people who haven't read it to go back and read. Bittrolff's wife, who had all the money in the family (John was a small-time subcontractor), hasn't had anything to say to anyone about anything, as far as we know. Including about the "ministry" to help wayward young people.
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I'm sorry to be rude, not trying to offend.

I've gone through some of the early pages, searched a bit more on Google, and here is what I find.

It looks like somebody is trying to attach Bittrolff to the "wayward girls' home" theme of Dr Hackett, perhaps hoping people will confuse the one with the other and transfer onto Bittrolff.

Is there any proof that Bittrolff ran or was involved in or had any connection whatsoever to anything like that? Or is it just fables and gossip that somebody is planting to make him appear guilty?

I notice somebody thinks he has some biological deformity, I forget maybe curled ears or something that is associated with serial killers? I don't even know how to respond to something so stupid.

So I ask again, and I'm not trying to offend, Is there any evidence whatsoever, of any kind aside from gossip and utter nonsense, that connects Bittrolff to any crime other than a dwi and a barfight, aside from the dna evidence that appears to have been fabricated?

Please don't say "look on this thread, search in this place". Is there any evidence?

You specifically, "top rated sleuth", refer to the wayward home. Can you provide some proof?
 
Vapor said:
.....

As far as bittrolff being a beer drinker and cops assuming he was paranoid for not throwing his beer bottles out at the curb... is it possible he might recycle them himself or return them to the beer distributor when he gets more beer? Id say so, lots of people do that.
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That's actually an interesting question in a roundabout way.

A lot is not known about this case yet, and one of the most interesting things is the dna that was used as a sample to supposedly tie Bittrolff to the girls who were killed.

So going a little earlier than the beer bottles, it seems likely that a Suffolk cop or cops did have a sperm sample from Bittrolff, that's my guess. But...

1) The sperm sample that they had, and which was testified about, was in unusually good condition. In fact detective Leser remarked about how unusual that was. The girls bodies were found outside in chilly weather, but neither was found quickly enough that a person could consider that evidence as having been removed from the bodies shortly after the sex act. In other words the prosecution did not argue that the sperm was found within a short time of having been deposited. They argued that the women were killed shortly after sex, then the bodies lay for a while and the sperm stopped degrading once the women died. It seems very unlikely.

2) Whatever sperm sample they obtained later, probably from Bittrolff, was what they bet everything on. In other words somebody acquired a sperm sample, then they had a piece of evidence that had to be tailored to the crime. The problem might have been that a new sperm sample is going to be somewhat different than one that has been in a body for a length of time. The prosecution did get an "expert witness" to clean that up.

First what the detective said in an interview http://www.indyeastend.com/Articles...7-THE-COP-WHO-TRACKED-A-COLD-CASE-KILLER.html

"I soon learned biological things I never knew about the female body," says Leser. "When semen enters a woman's body her system reacts as if it's a foreign invader and attacks it, breaking it down and degrading it fairly quickly. In order for as much spermatozoa with tails still attached to be present in each victim meant that she must have died within hours of the sex. And the DNA in the semen in both cases belonged to John Bittrolff."
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He is going into some detail about the quality of the sperm, trying to explain why a lot of the tails were still attached.

Then the expert witness at trial http://www.newsday.com/long-island/...xamined-by-defense-in-murder-trial-1.13712124

The day after Suffolk’s chief medical examiner used sperm density to explain to a jury how soon after sex two women were killed, he conceded during cross-examination Tuesday that numerous factors could affect the reliability of his estimate....

Caplan earlier had testified that the density of sperm cells he found in different areas told him how long before death they could have been left there. He estimated that Tangredi was killed less than 26 hours after sex and that McNamee likely died less than 24 hours afterward...
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And we'll throw in a science website to make things balanced http://harfordmedlegal.typepad.com/forensics_talk/2006/12/dna_semen_analy.html

Non motile sperm may normally be found up to 3 days after intercourse, and sometimes up to 6 days later in the cervix. Intact sperm (with tails) aren't usually found after 16 hours post intercourse but have been found up to 72 hours.
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So we have detective Leser who states explicitly that a lot of tails were present. A scientific type might assume from that that the sex act probably occured within 16 hours of the body being found, which would not work out in these cases probably.

The forensic expert goes in a different direction, using a slide supposedly prepared in 1994 to estimate based on density.

Since it isn't likely that detective Leser was lying about having a sperm sample with a lot of tails attached, which matched Bittrolff's dna, a guess might be that Bittrolff was induced to give a sperm sample by some woman perhaps with that task assigned to her. Normally, in most places, that would be an absurd assumption. Most police, even corrupt ones, don't go to that much trouble to frame somebody.

But in this case, that exact kind of 'framing' is exactly what the police chief was known for. It was his signature.
 
Im not going to back read
..as this is years n years..

But one simple observation and quick slueth. ..... both of his victims were picked up within 5 minutes and second location 8 minutes from the Holiday Inn in Hauppauge. ..

Coincidence?
 
if we are contemplating Bittrolff for the unidentified male murders (and why not, it's possible that whoever killed the women enjoyed the act of killing as much or even more than any sexual gratification it gave him) then here's a potential scenario:

Lots of undocumented workers hang out at known corners/building supply stores hoping to be picked up as day labor.

Obviously I'm just spitballing a way to make the male victims fit for JB, but what if their killer picked each of them up individually as construction/labor helpers. Over the course of a day or two of work conversation the killer may have been able to ascertain that their potential victims didn't have close family or community tied to the area that would report them missing. It's bothering me right now that I can't remember the cases, but I believe there were a couple of recent examples of serial killers who specifically befriended victims who didn't have family ties or communities looking out for them. (Heartbreaking, really).

Then again, although I don't agree with Abcdefgh that it's likely Bittrolff was framed, I'm also not convinced there aren't at least two other serial killers at work in addition to any more victims that turn out to be JB's. I can't help but think of this case of a (never charged) serial killer cop given nobody seems to have reported the men missing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disap...arance_of_Terrance_Williams_and_Felipe_Santos

edited to add- this is off-topic, but that cop is on facebook and follows a page that just posts gopro video footage of soldiers killing people . WTF. edited again_ and he is friends with someone who proudly tortures and kills animals. GOOD LORD this is a miscarriage of justice (sorry for the derail it won't happen again)
 
marble said:
if we are contemplating Bittrolff for the unidentified male murders (and why not, it's possible that whoever killed the women enjoyed the act of killing as much or even more than any sexual gratification it gave him) then here's a potential scenario:

Lots of undocumented workers hang out at known corners/building supply stores hoping to be picked up as day labor.

Obviously I'm just spitballing a way to make the male victims fit for JB, but what if their killer picked each of them up individually as construction/labor helpers. Over the course of a day or two of work conversation the killer may have been able to ascertain that their potential victims didn't have close family or community tied to the area that would report them missing. It's bothering me right now that I can't remember the cases, but I believe there were a couple of recent examples of serial killers who specifically befriended victims who didn't have family ties or communities looking out for them. (Heartbreaking, really).

Then again, although I don't agree with Abcdefgh that it's likely Bittrolff was framed, I'm also not convinced there aren't at least two other serial killers at work in addition to any more victims that turn out to be JB's. I can't help but think of this case of a (never charged) serial killer cop given nobody seems to have reported the men missing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disap...arance_of_Terrance_Williams_and_Felipe_Santos
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Gacy use to kill guys who applied for jobs for his contracting company.

There is a lot of corruption in suffolk county police so a frame job would not surprise me. I dont trust them and they want nothing more than to put this case to bed so their motive can be politics or cover up. Look what happened to hurricane carter in jersey.

If bittrolf is lisk, my profile about the killer was not spot on and i accept that i could be wrong but i do see someone hiding behind him. I still think there's a few of them working together and bittrolf could be one of them. Or, maybe there are two separate issues going on which i never thought to be so.

I think tina foglia was lisks first kill and that would put bittrolf at 15 or 16 years old. Your thoughts?




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