GUILTY OH - Barb Williams for child abuse, Hancock County, 2014

[human]

I keep hoping for an update that involves her in jail.

My totally uneducated guess is that she will not go to jail.
She will lose her job and the ability to work with children even as a volunteer.

She will probably get some kind of deal where she goes to counseling and a suspended sentence . Money is really tight nowadays, so unless she is considered a threat, they are not going to waste money incarcerating her when there are people out there that will commit more crime if they are not locked up.

FWIW

 

[JeannaT]

Looking at Ohio's assault laws, I don't think this meets the standard of simple assault.

There are conditions that have to be met to be charged with assault:

1. Knowingly causing or attempting to cause physical harm to another or another's unborn

OR

2. Recklessly causing serious physical harm to another or to another's unborn

She doesn't meet either criteria. I don't think you could prove in court that she was attempting to cause harm; and in fact, she didn't cause physical harm. He was examined by a nurse twice and apparently had no injuries.

I think she will not come back to teach. In a state that allows parents to spank children with belts or paddles, it would be very hard to justify pressing charges against a teacher who grabs a child by the shirt collar and lifts him up in anger.

http://www.myohiodefenselawyer.com/criminal-charges/assault/

 

[screecher]

I keep hoping for an update that involves her in jail.

I'd settle for an arrest. And an arraignment lol. For something.

Looking at Ohio's assault laws, I don't think this meets the standard of simple assault.

There are conditions that have to be met to be charged with assault:

1. Knowingly causing or attempting to cause physical harm to another or another's unborn

OR

2. Recklessly causing serious physical harm to another or to another's unborn

She doesn't meet either criteria. I don't think you could prove in court that she was attempting to cause harm; and in fact, she didn't cause physical harm. He was examined by a nurse twice and apparently had no injuries.

I think she will not come back to teach. In a state that allows parents to spank children with belts or paddles, it would be very hard to justify pressing charges against a teacher who grabs a child by the shirt collar and lifts him up in anger.

http://www.myohiodefenselawyer.com/criminal-charges/assault/

BBM

Thanks Jeanna.

BTW, did you look at Ohio's harassment laws?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Looking at Ohio's assault laws, I don't think this meets the standard of simple assault.

There are conditions that have to be met to be charged with assault:

1. Knowingly causing or attempting to cause physical harm to another or another's unborn

OR

2. Recklessly causing serious physical harm to another or to another's unborn

She doesn't meet either criteria. I don't think you could prove in court that she was attempting to cause harm; and in fact, she didn't cause physical harm. He was examined by a nurse twice and apparently had no injuries.

I think she will not come back to teach. In a state that allows parents to spank children with belts or paddles, it would be very hard to justify pressing charges against a teacher who grabs a child by the shirt collar and lifts him up in anger.

http://www.myohiodefenselawyer.com/criminal-charges/assault/

It is absolutely assault. All you have to do is touch someone with ill intent. That is assault.

You think she will not come back to teach? You think she should have the choice????? Im confused to heck by your posts.

It is one thing for a parent to spank their child. It is another entirely for a stranger to assault a child.

I just can not get over the amount of cajoling to make this woman seem better than she is... :banghead:

 

[JeannaT]

I'd settle for an arrest. And an arraignment lol. For something.




BBM

Thanks Jeanna.

BTW, did you look at Ohio's harassment laws?

I will look through those later - doing an early barbecue today. ;D I haven't seen that she's gotten much local harassment - it seems there are media reporters chasing her and also internet forums and online petitions signed by strangers - but it's certainly something to consider.

My guess is they're waiting until well after the school year ends to make a decision on what, if any, further action needs to be taken. I don't think we'll know the final decision really soon.

 

[MyBelle]

My totally uneducated guess is that she will not go to jail.
She will lose her job and the ability to work with children even as a volunteer.

She will probably get some kind of deal where she goes to counseling and a suspended sentence . Money is really tight nowadays, so unless she is considered a threat, they are not going to waste money incarcerating her when there are people out there that will commit more crime if they are not locked up.

FWIW

I agree. The goal will be to keep her away from children. Her career as a teacher is over. An even greater punishment to her is if they try to go after her pension.

JMO

 

[human]

I agree. The goal will be to keep her away from children. Her career as a teacher is over. An even greater punishment to her is if they try to go after her pension.

JMO

I do not see how they can take her pension. That is earned income that she received through a contract.

She will take a financial hit because she will be receiving less because she is not working. Same for Social Security. That will result in a reduction as well.

 

[K_Z]

I agree. The goal will be to keep her away from children. Her career as a teacher is over. An even greater punishment to her is if they try to go after her pension.

JMO

I do not see how they can take her pension. That is earned income that she received through a contract.

She will take a financial hit because she will be receiving less because she is not working. Same for Social Security. That will result in a reduction as well.

Here is a closely related situation in California

A California public school teacher convicted of a felony can lose their health benefits, but they can still collect their taxpayer-supported pension.

"They need to be fired, they need to not receive retirement," one parent said at an LAUSD board meeting Tuesday morning.

It is extremely difficult to fire a teacher in California because of extensive regulations and appeals. As is the case with former teacher and accused child molester Mark Berndt, accused teachers can continue to collect pay, benefits and retirement.

"Seven years ago, there were seven teachers that the district tried to get rid of. It took years and years. It cost $3.5 million dollars and they could only get rid of four of them."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/08/10350982-parents-fume-over-accused-la-teachers-pensions

And a related situation in NJ.

Mike Yaple with the New Jersey School Boards Association says firing a teacher starts with a lengthy hearing. He explains, “The process takes about a year. It can cost in the six-digits because that includes attorneys fees, paying for a substitute teacher and paying the teacher because after 120 days, by law the teachers’ salaries are restored”

http://nj1015.com/firing-a-tenured-nj-teacher-is-a-lenghty-and-costly-process/

Another in California.

His retirement benefits were never at issue.

“A teacher will receive their pension regardless of the reason for their termination because it is a benefit the teacher earned through their contributions and length of service,” said Michelle Mussuto, a spokeswoman for CalSTRS. “Once earned, that benefit cannot be taken away unless it is determined the teacher obtained that benefit by fraudulent means.”

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...suspected-of-lewd-conduct-keeps-benefits.html

 

[human]

That Berndt. Wow!

He pulled some real maneuvers. He hired a private attorney with his own money and then quit instead of being fired. The law is not always just.

 

[K_Z]

That Berndt. Wow!

He pulled some real maneuvers. He hired a private attorney with his own money and then quit instead of being fired. The law is not always just.

Agree. Berndt is a particularly vile and noxious excuse for a human being.

As far as BW, I think she will ultimately be fired, but the due process has to wind its way along first. I think it's possible she will try to resign before being fired. However, I think that the level of publicity and outrage over this will ensure she is ultimately fired, instead of being allowed to resign.

I doubt she will be convicted of a felony, even if she is charged with one initially. At most, I think it will be ultimately concluded with a misdemeanor assault. I doubt that she will do jail time. I know the public won't be happy about that, but it would be consistent with other similar cases.

It is also possible she won't be charged with anything criminal. Time will tell. I expect that the child's parents will likely pursue civil claim/s as well. This isn't going away for BW for a long time.

 

[mrsobrien]

I disagree. Imo, her actions fall squarely under #1. The outcome isn't severe injury, thankfully, but I think the video clearly shows attempt of physical harm. As for proving her intent, that would be difficult, but I think it's doable. What other intention is there when you handle another human in this way?

Looking at Ohio's assault laws, I don't think this meets the standard of simple assault.

There are conditions that have to be met to be charged with assault:

1. Knowingly causing or attempting to cause physical harm to another or another's unborn

OR

2. Recklessly causing serious physical harm to another or to another's unborn

She doesn't meet either criteria. I don't think you could prove in court that she was attempting to cause harm; and in fact, she didn't cause physical harm. He was examined by a nurse twice and apparently had no injuries.

I think she will not come back to teach. In a state that allows parents to spank children with belts or paddles, it would be very hard to justify pressing charges against a teacher who grabs a child by the shirt collar and lifts him up in anger.

http://www.myohiodefenselawyer.com/criminal-charges/assault/

 

[JLSChook]

Just curious, for those defending this so-called teacher. What if it was a male teacher assaulting a female child exactly as the video depicts?

:banghead:

The only headline I want to see in this case is "Teacher arrested for assaulting kindergartner"

 

[human]

Why wouldn't she resign? If you want to resign, no one can stop the resignation can they?

 

[AnaTeresa]

Since the question of assault has come up, Ohio Revised Code 2903.11 states:

(A) No person shall knowingly cause or attempt to cause physical harm to another or to another's unborn.

(B) No person shall recklessly cause serious physical harm to another or to another's unborn.

To define physical harm, Ohio Revised Code 2901.01 states:

(A) As used in the Revised Code:

(3) "Physical harm to persons" means any injury, illness, or other physiological impairment, regardless of its gravity or duration.

Now, we don't really know what sort of injury the victim sustained in this matter - but we also don't know what sort of injury the teacher intended. Based on the video, I think an assault charge could be made. Some people think of assault as something very serious, but even minor harms can be considered assault under the law.

 

[screecher]

I will look through those later - doing an early barbecue today. ;D I haven't seen that she's gotten much local harassment - it seems there are media reporters chasing her and also internet forums and online petitions signed by strangers - but it's certainly something to consider.

My guess is they're waiting until well after the school year ends to make a decision on what, if any, further action needs to be taken. I don't think we'll know the final decision really soon.

:floorlaugh: No. Not Barb Williams being harassed, Barb Williams harassing her student.

 

[JeannaT]

Since the question of assault has come up, Ohio Revised Code 2903.11 states:



To define physical harm, Ohio Revised Code 2901.01 states:



Now, we don't really know what sort of injury the victim sustained in this matter - but we also don't know what sort of injury the teacher intended. Based on the video, I think an assault charge could be made. Some people think of assault as something very serious, but even minor harms can be considered assault under the law.

It seems there are two cases when assault can be charged: one, if the behavior is reckless and causes SERIOUS injury but was unintentional; and 2, when the behavior was intended to injure and did in fact, injure, even in a minor way. So coming up to someone and punching them in the face and leaving a bruise would certainly fall under #2, and throwing rocks in a park full of children that resulted in a child needing stitches would fall under #1.

I just don't see this incident meeting either of those criteria. If there were a charge for reckless behavior that resulted in minor, transitory bruising, then it would fit. I don't think it can be proven that her intent was to injure the child, and if you go with the reckless certainly a bruise couldn't be considered "serious" injury. Also, there is no provision under the assault charge for intimidation or psychological harm.

I think maybe Screecher had a point when she thought of harassment, but we REALLY don't want to go down that path of charging teachers with harassing students when they are in an ongoing behavior problem pattern. I can't imagine criminal charges flying around in elementary classrooms with boisterous students and frustrated teachers. Not everything need involve the court system.

 

[JeannaT]

Why wouldn't she resign? If you want to resign, no one can stop the resignation can they?

I wish we had an Ohio public school teacher in this thread. What is the contract process for teachers - do they have to sign a new contract at the beginning of each school year, or is it assumed once they've been there a year that they will continue to teach until they either formally resign or are let go?

So would she either be expected to formally resign, or would just declining to sign a contract next year if offered be the way to do it?

I still think chances are high that in June she'll offer a letter of resignation that doesn't mention this incident at all, and that will be that.

 

[blue22]

I wish we had an Ohio public school teacher in this thread. What is the contract process for teachers - do they have to sign a new contract at the beginning of each school year, or is it assumed once they've been there a year that they will continue to teach until they either formally resign or are let go?

So would she either be expected to formally resign, or would just declining to sign a contract next year if offered be the way to do it?

I still think chances are high that in June she'll offer a letter of resignation that doesn't mention this incident at all, and that will be that.

It depends. She has been there long, I only assume she is tenured. IF she is tenured, that essentially means she has a life contract. She can only be fired, if there is a just cause to fire her. I would consider this more than a just cause. With that said, the hassle and red tape you have to go through to fire a tenured teacher is insane. That is probably the sole reason she has not been officially fired.

The teachers union has made it exceedingly impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Hence, why so many teachers are around past their due time, like this teacher probably was.

ETA: some states are doing away with their current tenure system. I don't know if that's the case with this state, and if it is gone...when that takes place.

 

[JeannaT]

It depends. She has been there long, I only assume she is tenured. IF she is tenured, that essentially means she has a life contract. She can only be fired, if there is a just cause to fire her. I would consider this more than a just cause. With that said, the hassle and red tape you have to go through to fire a tenured teacher is insane. That is probably the sole reason she has not been officially fired.

The teachers union has made it exceedingly impossible to fire a tenured teacher. Hence, why so many teachers are around past their due time, like this teacher probably was.

Her letter from the superintendent clearly established a paper trail to termination - if she were to be involved in another infraction, she would then be fired.

It just seems like this is a bit of a dance - I would resign after receiving that letter. I would suspect it was intended to get her to resign willingly.

 

[blue22]

Her letter from the superintendent clearly established a paper trail to termination - if she were to be involved in another infraction, she would then be fired.

It just seems like this is a bit of a dance - I would resign after receiving that letter. I would suspect it was intended to get her to resign willingly.

I suspect so. It will likely be easier to push her to resignation, than to fire her. Even with the termination paper trail starting, it's still a very long and winding process to fire a tenured teacher. We are talking literally hundreds of papers of paperwork and (literally) tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of thousands in litigation, to start. If they want her gone now, the easiest way is resignation...unfortunately.