OH - Kathryn, 54, & James Stockdale, 21, shot to death, Stark Co., 15 June 2017

[Jennifer17]

I think things started going wrong a long time ago.

It is difficult to work out who is the victim here, (except for the younger brother), isn't it?

 

[policyoftruth501]

Plenty of people grow up in very strict and abusive homes (psychologically and/or physically) - I did. But these people don't murder their family members, friends, or even strangers. People who grow up in these situations and do go on to commit violent crimes usually end being diagnosed with a serious mental defect - borderline personality disorder, narcissist, sociopath, etc.

I'm sure there will be mental evaluations in this case by the prosecution and defense and I'll be very surprised if this young man isn't found to have been exhibiting warning signs for a long time, but for whatever reason (pride, neglect, etc.) no one close to him ever got him the help he needed. JMO.


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[Jennifer17]

Plenty of people grow up in very strict and abusive homes (psychologically and/or physically) - I did. But these people don't murder their family members, friends, or even strangers. People who grow up in these situations and do go on to commit violent crimes usually end being diagnosed with a serious mental defect - borderline personality disorder, narcissist, sociopath, etc.

I'm sure there will be mental evaluations in this case by the prosecution and defense and I'll be very surprised if this young man isn't found to have been exhibiting warning signs for a long time, but for whatever reason (pride, neglect, etc.) no one close to him ever got him the help he needed. JMO.


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Well, there is strict and there is almost completely isolating children from normal developmental experiences and normal age appropriate socialising.

 

[policyoftruth501]

Well, there is strict and there is almost completely isolating children from normal developmental experiences and normal age appropriate socialising.

Believe me, I know what the worst end of strict and abusive is. In my home growing up, kids didn't have any rights and didn't matter. Being beaten till your whole back side, from your neck to the back of your knee caps, is black from bruising sustained in a "sparking" (as my dad called it) just because at 8 years old you don't want to take karate class (just one example out of countless instances) is a regular occurrence and it's both psychological and physical abuse. And, a child's backside is no match for a 3" wide 1/4" thick leather belt with a HUGE brass buckle on it.

Being forced to stand at attention and not move, not even twitch, for 30 minutes to an hour starting at the age of 6 is psychological abuse - if my brother or I moved we either got "spanked", had to start over, or both, which was the most common option.

Even to this day my dad is a jack *advertiser censored*, but now I can talk back and stand up for myself without having to worry about being beaten with a leather belt (which today is bowed in the middle from all the beatings my brother and I received growing up). And, btw, emotional abuse is going 49 years and never once having your dad hug you one single time or say "I love you". And where was my mom throughout all this? Standing by; not doing anything.


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[Jennifer17]

Believe me, I know what the worst end of strict and abusive is. In my home growing up, kids didn't have any rights and didn't matter. Being beaten till your whole back side, from your neck to the back of your knee caps, is black from bruising sustained in a "sparking" (as my dad called it) just because at 8 years old you don't want to take karate class (just one example out of countless instances) is a regular occurrence and it's both psychological and physical abuse. And, a child's backside is no match for a 3" wide 1/4" thick leather belt with a HUGE brass buckle on it.

Being forced to stand at attention and not move, not even twitch, for 30 minutes to an hour starting at the age of 6 is psychological abuse - if my brother or I moved we either got "spanked", had to start over, or both, which was the most common option.

Even to this day my dad is a jack *advertiser censored*, but now I can talk back and stand up for myself without having to worry about being beaten with a leather belt (which today is bowed in the middle from all the beatings my brother and I received growing up). And, btw, emotional abuse is going 49 years and never once having your dad hug you one single time or say "I love you". And where was my mom throughout all this? Standing by; not doing anything.


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I am sorry that you had that abuse, I am not prepared to throw your mum under the bus. If you, as children got that, and you mum stayed quiet, I am pretty sure that she got worse from him. No person is that controlling and violent that they did not have to control every person in their life.

 

[bluesneakers]

I am sorry that you had that abuse, I am not prepared to throw your mum under the bus. If you, as children got that, and you mum stayed quiet, I am pretty sure that she got worse from him. No person is that controlling and violent that they did not have to control every person in their life.

I've seen abused mothers step back... It's difficult to even say this, but if the kids get the abuse the mothers don't. Not always, but it happens.

 

[U2forever]

Believe me, I know what the worst end of strict and abusive is. In my home growing up, kids didn't have any rights and didn't matter. Being beaten till your whole back side, from your neck to the back of your knee caps, is black from bruising sustained in a "sparking" (as my dad called it) just because at 8 years old you don't want to take karate class (just one example out of countless instances) is a regular occurrence and it's both psychological and physical abuse. And, a child's backside is no match for a 3" wide 1/4" thick leather belt with a HUGE brass buckle on it.

Being forced to stand at attention and not move, not even twitch, for 30 minutes to an hour starting at the age of 6 is psychological abuse - if my brother or I moved we either got "spanked", had to start over, or both, which was the most common option.

Even to this day my dad is a jack *advertiser censored*, but now I can talk back and stand up for myself without having to worry about being beaten with a leather belt (which today is bowed in the middle from all the beatings my brother and I received growing up). And, btw, emotional abuse is going 49 years and never once having your dad hug you one single time or say "I love you". And where was my mom throughout all this? Standing by; not doing anything.


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I'm so sorry, policyoftruth.
Do you have children and if you do, is he allowed to be alone with em?

 

[Satchie]

Plenty of people grow up in very strict and abusive homes (psychologically and/or physically) - I did. But these people don't murder their family members, friends, or even strangers. People who grow up in these situations and do go on to commit violent crimes usually end being diagnosed with a serious mental defect - borderline personality disorder, narcissist, sociopath, etc.

I agree with you, though I'll quibble with your examples of conditions, the ones you chose are, I think statistically associated with parental neglect (I would say, in support of the mother, it's probably better to be too involved with your kids, than to abandon/ignore them). But it could well be a biological disorder like schizophrenia or severe depression/bi-polar disorder triggered by a recent loss.



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[policyoftruth501]

I am sorry that you had that abuse, I am not prepared to throw your mum under the bus. If you, as children got that, and you mum stayed quiet, I am pretty sure that she got worse from him. No person is that controlling and violent that they did not have to control every person in their life.

No. My mom was never the victim of abuse of any kind. Don't get me wrong - we didn't live a life of daily beatings, but the control and the belittling were there all day every day. My mom was both well aware and often a witness to what was done to my brother and me. My dad is a Marine and was in charge of discipline. Many of his discipline tactics are Marine Corps tactics meant to break down grown men, but my dad used those tactics on children.

I can't recall a single time my mother disciplined either of us. She mostly threatened to tell my dad what we had done to keep us in line and when my dad got home we would then get "spanked" for something that happened 8 hours earlier. My dad was very condescending with her and still is, but they're about to have their 50th anniversary and seem to be happy. Although it's hard to tell since my dad never shows affection towards anyone except my 18 year old daughter and my 5 year old nephew. My 26 year old nephew has aged out I guess because he no longer gets the affection from my dad that he got when he was younger.

My dad has had a habit with all 3 grandchildren of being very patient, playful, and affectionate - a complete 180 from the man that raised my brother and me. But when they reach the teen years it changes drastically. When my daughter was about 10 or 11 years old I had to physically pull my dad off of her because he was looming over her screaming in her face while she was curled up in a ball in the corner of the couch. We didn't speak to him for months after that incident. But I made it clear to him that day that if he ever lays a hand on my child like he did my brother and me when we were growing up, I would not only lay him out flat on the ground I would also charge him for the child abuse charges he's deserved for over 30 years.


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[policyoftruth501]

I'm so sorry, policyoftruth.
Do you have children and if you do, is he allowed to be alone with em?

I have an 18 year old (19 in 2 months) daughter and she has spent a lot of time with him. He is closer with her than he's ever been with me. As I explained in another post he is a completely different man with the grandchildren. Until recently, he was a much more patient and understanding person than I ever knew him to be when I was growing up and even in my early adult years. However, he's nearly 73 and he is showing signs of dementia or some other mood change due to old age. All the adults in my family have had to confront him in very hostile situations where he just snaps at people for no reason. Most recently he ruined the Mother's Day family get together for my grandmother, mother, and me when he turned on me for no reason, which put me in a situation where I had to tell him exactly where to go, which then put an end to our holiday gathering.


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[policyoftruth501]

I agree with you, though I'll quibble with your examples of conditions, the ones you chose are, I think statistically associated with parental neglect (I would say, in support of the mother, it's probably better to be too involved with your kids, than to abandon/ignore them). But it could well be a biological disorder like schizophrenia or severe depression/bi-polar disorder triggered by a recent loss.



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I wasn't trying to state that these are the only 3 mental conditions that can cause someone to act out violently. I was stating a few examples, which is the reason for the "etc." at the end of the list.


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[U2forever]

I have an 18 year old (19 in 2 months) daughter and she has spent a lot of time with him. He is closer with her than he's ever been with me. As I explained in another post he is a completely different man with the grandchildren. Until recently, he was a much more patient and understanding person than I ever knew him to be when I was growing up and even in my early adult years. However, he's nearly 73 and he is showing signs of dementia or some other mood change due to old age. All the adults in my family have had to confront him in very hostile situations where he just snaps at people for no reason. Most recently he ruined the Mother's Day family get together for my grandmother, mother, and me when he turned on me for no reason, which put me in a situation where I had to tell him exactly where to go, which then put an end to our holiday gathering.


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Thank you, policyoftruth, for being so candid and I did read the post above where you explained to your father you would lay him out if he touched your children.
I was not in a physically abusive home, just mental, but my best friend was. I witnessed her father pick her up by the neck and threaten her life if the mark on her neck was a hickey. She was beat regularly and the bruises all over her were real. Too bad no one took action. I was only 13-14 so what could I do as I was terrified of her parents and this was late 70's early 80's.
BTW, pilocyoftruth, I think your a bad *advertiser censored* the way your defend your kids. :heart:

 

[policyoftruth501]

Thank you, policyoftruth, for being so candid and I did read the post above where you explained to your father you would lay him out if he touched your children.
I was not in a physically abusive home, just mental, but my best friend was. I witnessed her father pick her up by the neck and threaten her life if the mark on her neck was a hickey. She was beat regularly and the bruises all over her were real. Too bad no one took action. I was only 13-14 so what could I do as I was terrified of her parents and this was late 70's early 80's.
BTW, pilocyoftruth, I think your a bad *advertiser censored* the way your defend your kids. :heart:

Thank you, U2forever, for the compliment. Btw - you've got bad *advertiser censored* taste in music.


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[U2forever]

Thank you, U2forever, for the compliment. Btw - you've got bad *advertiser censored* taste in music.


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Thanks!! You should check out my fb page, the show was beyond awesome. I am still recovering. Cannot wait till the next show!

Sorry off topic

 

[policyoftruth501]

Thanks!! You should check out my fb page, the show was beyond awesome. I am still recovering. Cannot wait till the next show!

Sorry off topic

I understand being a huge fan myself. I've seen them in concert several times and there's really nothing to compare it to.


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[Dénouement]

Back on topic. Where is the father?

 

[U2forever]

Back on topic. Where is the father?

I haven't heard, everything is locked down. I'm guessing the ICU @ hospital.


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[gitana1]

This family reminds me of the Duggars in that both sets of parents have total control over their children. They both homeschool them, teach them music lessons, assign the children work duties around the house, and the parents chose who the children could mix with.

The big difference, from my viewpoint, is the Duggars are very open with the public on their lifestyle while the Stockdales appear to be more private. Naturally, we only see what the Duggars want us to see!

But, is that really true, with the Stockdales appearing on "Wife Swap"? This program opened their world for all to see and much criticism to follow. Were the Stockdales really in hope that a network would pick them up for a reality show?

Why did they come out of their private little nest to appear on that crazy show knowing that the world they live in was so totally off the norm? And why did they publish that Manual on their website?

Such a horrific sadness brought upon this family by one of their sons.

My opinions only.

I actually don't think the Duggars micromanage their kids the way the mother here did. They seem to have time to actually play. People report that Duggar kids run around like mad playing and making tons of noise. Almost a bit wild.

The parents of the Stockdale kids felt every moment had to be productive and managed and accounted for. Even using the bathroom. (The manual says song lyrics are posted there so the boys will memorize while using the bathroom). And they said leisure time was not really allowed.

Also, while the Duggars are similarly censored and sheltered, they aren't as isolated. The kids are allowed to have friends within their culture and spend time at other's homes and have friends come over. They always seem to have guests cycling in and out and kids running around playing with them.

They are allowed to engage in competitive sports as well although it does not seem they are allowed to play on organized teams. But the Stockdale kids weren't even allowed to play sports!

 

[Jennifer17]

There seemed to be more work going in that home than home schooling.

 

[U2forever]

I actually don't think the Duggars micromanage their kids the way the mother here did. They seem to have time to actually play. People report that Duggar kids run around like mad playing and making tons of noise. Almost a bit wild.

The parents of the Stockdale kids felt every moment had to be productive and managed and accounted for. Even using the bathroom. (The manual says song lyrics are posted there so the boys will memorize while using the bathroom). And they said leisure time was not really allowed.

Also, while the Duggars are similarly censored and sheltered, they aren't as isolated. The kids are allowed to have friends within their culture and spend time at other's homes and have friends come over. They always seem to have guests cycling in and out and kids running around playing with them.

They are allowed to engage in competitive sports as well although it does not seem they are allowed to play on organized teams. But the Stockdale kids weren't even allowed to play sports!

The Duggars creep me out, always have, now this on top of <modsnip - term not allowd here>-josh and his Shenanigans. Things happen when one tries or succeeds in making children into what they are not. It's only natural for boys to have bodily functions and want and need certain things. Something was/is very very wrong in making someone what they are not. Robots come to mind.


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