OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[PrairieWind]

Right. The charges they brought in 2018 could technically be renewed. We need to ask @PrairieWind about the possibility of other charges based on other evidence revealed in the proffers and at trial.

I haven't kept up here a lot so I can't be certain. Sure, the State can refile charges, but that doesn't mean they will stay in court. All defenses are still in play, including speedy trial, etc. Just because a State dismisses and refiles charges doesn't necessarily mean that those charges will survive speedy trial challenges. Now, speedy can be reset by new evidence, but it gets dicey.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you!
I’d like to add that I’m new & you guys are very knowledgeable & nice too.

Your welcome, and nice to see someone new posting!

We try to be nice...LOL...!!!!

 

[Betty P]

AC stated in one of the prelim hearings they all were offered a plea. Interesting....IMO
No link. Too lazy.

I was surprised when I heard her say that in closing. Maybe I misheard. Will have to listen when things quiet down around here.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you!
I’d like to add that I’m new & you guys are very knowledgeable & nice too.

Thank you, you've been very helpful! It's great to have you!

 

[Pru2U]

I wonder if that was referencing the state's willingness to sit down and talk with each of them prior to Jake's confession or prior to Angela's? Jake was first and I recall AC saying they then made it known that they were willing to talk to any of the other 3 that came forward because that would either corroborate Jake's story or they would learn something else and possibly contradict some of Jake's story. Then it was Angela that came forward 5 months or so later and her story did corroborate Jake's. I wonder if both actually are true then? All were offered the chance to talk, but once Jake and Angela both did talk, the deals were off because George and Billy didn't take the chance when it was offered to them?

I think maybe my statement about offering them all a casual deal would have been better stated your way. The prosecution made it known they were willing to talk to any of them. Canepa said it again in post verdict presser. She mentioned it was especially difficult to barter with Jake. She wanted to nail him most of all, but every family member was in agreement. As hard as it would be, they needed to get as close to what happened as they could. IMO, She did it for the families. She also mentioned how hard it was to keep her composure and be pleasant to both Angie & Jake, but especially Angie as she disparaged the victims. I am so relieved these ugly, ugly people are going to prison for a long, long time.

PS It was Angela who said (on the last wiretap recordings) she would prefer "the chair" to fighting every day in prison. Apparently, she changed her mind.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder if that was referencing the state's willingness to sit down and talk with each of them prior to Jake's confession or prior to Angela's? Jake was first and I recall AC saying they then made it known that they were willing to talk to any of the other 3 that came forward because that would either corroborate Jake's story or they would learn something else and possibly contradict some of Jake's story. Then it was Angela that came forward 5 months or so later and her story did corroborate Jake's. I wonder if both actually are true then? All were offered the chance to talk, but once Jake and Angela both did talk, the deals were off because George and Billy didn't take the chance when it was offered to them?

I think we all wonder what would have happened if George had asked for a plea deal after Jake and Angela already negotiated their's.

I am sure I heard Canepa say that, before Jake did his plea, that all 4 were given the same opportunity as Jake to come forward and do a plea deal. In other words any of them could have been the first to come forward and plead guilty and get the DP taken off the table for all 4 of them.

Had George or Billy come forward first I believe they would have gotten the same deal as Jake or even possibly a chance to get out after serving a very long sentence like Angie.

I think the State needed at least one co-defendant's testimony to be sure George was placed at the crime scenes, maybe Billy too, so it is possible that had George or Billy been the first to do a plea deal - without any co-defendants at that time testifying against them - that maybe just maybe - they could have gotten life with the possibility of parole or 30 years or whatever.

Just don't know. But anyway, once the State locked down 2 co-defendant's testimony against Billy and George, in my opinion, George and Billy lost any leverage they might have had. They really didn't have enough to offer to get less than LWOP.

I think Angie skated by with 30 years because she wasn't at the crime scenes and Jake corroborated this. But both Jake and Angie place George and Billy at the crime scenes.

Anyway, the point is, we are down to Billy and I just don't see the prosecution giving Billy any type of lesser sentence deal when both Angela and Jake plus evidence place him shooting at the crime scenes.

So why should Billy do a plea deal if the prosecution won't give him less than LWOP? The only reason for him to plead out is if he could get a better deal than LWOP. With a trial he has a super tiny chance of maybe not ending up like George but I don't see how.

I also think his family might want him to plead innocent. That way they can say "my brother" "my son" "my uncle", whatever, was framed by Jake and Angela.

Just speculating about the pleas and what Billy might do. Someone posted that Jake saved George's life. But maybe Jake's testimony, along with Angela's, actually helped get him convicted? Without their testimony I wonder if the outcome would have been different?

Maybe their testimony is what is going to be giving George what we know is coming, a LWOP sentence.
I would love to hear what some of the jurors think about this. How much weight they gave to Jake and Angela's testimony?

There will be prison inmates who see Jake and Angela as snitches who turned on their family. How that will affect them in prison, who knows?

 

[TopHat123]

After Angela & especially Jake testified, what we learned about what happened that night + the other evidence that supported their testimonies (for the most part), I think the jurors’ minds were set. It’s just that you never know.
Part of me wishes Billy & George IV would just tell their stories. Truthfully. The stories might not match 100% simply because people remember things differently, but imo it would paint a clearer picture. Then again, just from Jake’s testimony it sounds so very awful that I might not want to know more. I mean I feel a tiny bit better thinking that most of the victims were asleep or nearly so.
To think how close they were to getting away with it is horrifying. I’m sorry I don’t recall who said it here, but I agree that if they hadn’t KILLED 8 PEOPLE IN ONE NIGHT there might’ve been a whole lot less media attention paid to this case. But the Wagners fancy themselves criminal masterminds who always get away with everything. It seems that they overreached this time. Sorry for rambling… it’s just that this case is like a Greek tragedy, or something. It’s hard to shake.

 

[NWLady]

I am so thankful that the jury found GW guilty of all counts! 3 down, 1 to go! I have a hunch there won't be a trial for BW. I can't see him sitting in the courtroom, having to keep his mouth shut for any length of time, let alone for possible weeks on end, but only time will tell. JMO

Love and continued thoughts and prayers being sent for the Rhoden, Manley and Gilley families, and of course the children as well.

ETA to also include Chelsea. Love, thoughts and prayers being sent for her and her son also too.

 

[Cool Cats]

I am so thankful that the jury found GW guilty of all counts! 3 down, 1 to go! I have a hunch there won't be a trial for BW. I can't see him sitting in the courtroom, having to keep his mouth shut for any length of time, let alone for possible weeks on end, but only time will tell. JMO

Love and continued thoughts and prayers being sent for the Rhoden, Manley and Gilley families, and of course the children as well.

And as @Caylee Advocate mentioned, remember Chelsea Robinson's family. She is the mother of Frankie's oldest son who was sleeping on the couch that night and saw his parent's in bed. I only mention her real name because she gave around 3 MSM article interviews of how she and her son are doing. Tony also asked her family if he could be in the boy's life and of course they want him to be and said they are all family.

 

[Dudly]

When filling out your Christmas cards this year, take one card and send it to this address: A Recovering American Soldier, c/o Walter Reed Army Medical Center, 6900 Georgia Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20307-5001. If we pass this on and everyone sends one card, think of how many cards these wonderful, selfless people, who have sacrificed so much would get.

 

[LMDlong]

11/01/2022

ENTRY GRANTING REINSTATEMENT OF EDWARD JACOB WAGNER'S PRIVILEGES FILED AND MAILED COPIES CDB

I was checking each of the W's docket just now and notice Jake had his privileges reinstated after he testified, but Angela has no such entry like this. The last entry for her was 10/13 and it was to do with appointed counsel fees and special prosecutor fees.. nothing since then. So she still has her privileges revoked?

I noticed that yesterday also.

 

[Dudly]

Anyone heard anything about a juror giving an interview, yet?

 

[Cool Cats]

MSN

Story by James Pilcher, WKRC • 7h ago

Each of the eight counts of aggravated murder carries a minimum of 20 years, and that's before additional years are added on for using a gun.

If Pike Co. Common Pleas Court Judge Randy Deering issues just that, and says they have to be served consecutively, it's a total of 160 years – not including all the counts of burglary, forgery, obstructing justice, and conspiracy that Wagner also faces.

Jurors found Wagner guilty of helping kill eight members of the Rhoden and Gilley families in April of 2016.

Local 12's legal expert and Cincinnati defense lawyer Jay Clark says Judge Deering will probably issue a harsh sentence.

"I would expect this judge to run them all consecutive. Even if he gave him the minimum of 20-25, eight times 20 is 160 years before he is parole eligible,” Clark said.

The father, Billy, is still pleading not guilty, but Jake and Angela both testified the plot was his idea.

Billy's trial has been postponed. His lawyers declined comment Thursday, citing a standing gag order.

Prosecutors also declined comment on his case during their press conference following the verdict Wednesday night.

Clark says he would not be surprised if Billy takes his case to trial, saying he has no incentive at this point to plead out. Jake has to testify against him to get the death penalty lifted in that case, much like it was against George.

"When you go to trial, you never know what will happen,” Clark said. “There may be issues that come up, evidentiary issues come up, and by the time the appeal gets done, maybe you can't find other witnesses."

 

[Chris_p_bacon]

I’m lying here awake & the same thought keeps going around in my mind:
These [derogatory term] murdered 8 people because THEY thought the held the moral high ground? This den of thieves & liars & con artists really thought that THEY could raise Sophia better than the Rhodens? Do they not see the absurdity of that belief? THEY KILLED 8 PEOPLE. But the Rhodens are the bad guys- Ack!
***rant ends
Quick question: since the DP was taken off the table, does that mean there won’t be an automatic appeal? Because I’m pretty sure the Rhodens, Gilleys & Manleys wouldn’t be upset if they never had to sit in the same room with the Wagners again.
Another quick question: will the folks who are caring for George IV & Jake’s children be forced to visit dear old dad in prison? Gosh I hope not.

Yeah. I don't think any of them get it yet. Reading the notes of what Angela and Jake said on the stand and listening/watching George's testimony.....they just don't get it. They do not yet think they did anything wrong. They still believe they are better than everyone else and they believe they had a right to take 8 lives. And George thinks that Jury should have found him not guilty because "he did not pull the trigger". And if he just lies a little on the stand he can get away with assisting with the murders of 8 people. I do not think any of them get it, and I think they all believe they still have the moral high ground. They think wrong.

 

[LMDlong]

In Ohio it is very clear that if a parent kills the other parent, the parent who killed loses all their rights to see or communicate with their child. Jake lost all his rights to see or even communicate with his child.

It is my opinion that George will not be able to use the law to force his son to have anything to do with him. I don't know about what the laws are about incarcerated parents being able to have contact with their children in Ohio, but I can't imagine that George could force contact with his son. I do not think it's possible, my opinion.

As far as appeals go, when you take a plea deal like Angie and Jake, you lose the right to appeal.

George is different because he went to trial. Because he went to trial he can appeal. At his sentencing we might hear his attorneys say they will appeal, or that George will be getting new counsel to do his appeals.
Not sure what will happen with George appealing. I assume he will but can't know for sure until something is said about it.

In my opinion it would only be a formality anyway. I see no grounds for George to appeal. His attorneys and Judge Deering did too good of a job for an appeals court to find fault with George's defense and how Deering
ran his courtroom. The prosecution only put out evidence they could back up. No one framed George. His appeals won't mount to a hill of beans.

Not that I like the idea nor that he will win ,but I think an appeal will be filed on George’s behalf and in it will be mentioned about the jury requesting Jake’s transcripts.

 

[Piffcat]

I think we all wonder what would have happened if George had asked for a plea deal after Jake and Angela already negotiated their's.

I am sure I heard Canepa say that, before Jake did his plea, that all 4 were given the same opportunity as Jake to come forward and do a plea deal. In other words any of them could have been the first to come forward and plead guilty and get the DP taken off the table for all 4 of them.

Had George or Billy come forward first I believe they would have gotten the same deal as Jake or even possibly a chance to get out after serving a very long sentence like Angie.

I think the State needed at least one co-defendant's testimony to be sure George was placed at the crime scenes, maybe Billy too, so it is possible that had George or Billy been the first to do a plea deal - without any co-defendants at that time testifying against them - that maybe just maybe - they could have gotten life with the possibility of parole or 30 years or whatever.

Just don't know. But anyway, once the State locked down 2 co-defendant's testimony against Billy and George, in my opinion, George and Billy lost any leverage they might have had. They really didn't have enough to offer to get less than LWOP.

I think Angie skated by with 30 years because she wasn't at the crime scenes and Jake corroborated this. But both Jake and Angie place George and Billy at the crime scenes.

Anyway, the point is, we are down to Billy and I just don't see the prosecution giving Billy any type of lesser sentence deal when both Angela and Jake plus evidence place him shooting at the crime scenes.

So why should Billy do a plea deal if the prosecution won't give him less than LWOP? The only reason for him to plead out is if he could get a better deal than LWOP. With a trial he has a super tiny chance of maybe not ending up like George but I don't see how.

I also think his family might want him to plead innocent. That way they can say "my brother" "my son" "my uncle", whatever, was framed by Jake and Angela.

Just speculating about the pleas and what Billy might do. Someone posted that Jake saved George's life. But maybe Jake's testimony, along with Angela's, actually helped get him convicted? Without their testimony I wonder if the outcome would have been different?

Maybe their testimony is what is going to be giving George what we know is coming, a LWOP sentence.
I would love to hear what some of the jurors think about this. How much weight they gave to Jake and Angela's testimony?

There will be prison inmates who see Jake and Angela as snitches who turned on their family. How that will affect them in prison, who knows?

the prisoners dilemma.. or in this case the wagner cult family dilemma

 

[Myland]

AC stated in one of the prelim hearings they all were offered a plea. Interesting....IMO
No link. Too lazy.

Jmo I thought she said in her opening. They sent an offer after Jake plead to the rest and Angela came forward. I know i heard her say something about it somewhere.

 

[justtrish]

Not that I like the idea nor that he will win ,but I think an appeal will be filed on George’s behalf and in it will be mentioned about the jury requesting Jake’s transcripts.

The thing is they requested a few different things and we just don't know why it is they wanted Jake's transcripts for. It might have just been them wanting to double check something, not realizing that the transcript had to actually be printed (and wasn't just there to hand over to them) and was over 700 pages. If the reason they wanted it wasn't a deal breaker either way, then why push the issue to get it knowing it would take time and money and it was not already printed and ready to hand over like other evidence was. If it was a matter of someone wanted to vote not guilty and needed that then I feel they would have held on to the request.

I also wonder if they were all decided right away and didn't need to discuss much at all. If that is the case then how quick is too quick to come back? Maybe they felt they needed to ask for something and discuss some things just so they didn't come back too soon. I mean look at the comments already about the 7 1/2 hours being too quick. If you know and agree then what is there to even discuss? I could totally see feeling like a trial lasting that long and deciding too fast would look bad so maybe requesting some things to just solidify that everyone did think guilty.

He took the stand and his version was so far out there that I think it might just have been THAT easy for them.

 

[Myland]

Jmo I’m glad the family feels some peace, but the state in my opinion was not responsible for the conviction of George. It was just what I said, Jake took away the ability for people to decide his fate and so the jury used George to feel like the Wagner’s were punished. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

Not that I like the idea nor that he will win ,but I think an appeal will be filed on George’s behalf and in it will be mentioned about the jury requesting Jake’s transcripts.

Interesting. Deering however, did not deny the transcripts. He did explain reasons why the jury having them could be a bad idea. Deering's explanation sounded very fair. That having the transcripts could put too much weight on Jake's testimony.

What did Jake's testimony say? His testimony said George was at the crime scenes participating in the murders amongst other incriminating statements against George such as burying evidence and helping to buy and modify the "murder" truck.

So actually, by the jury choosing NOT to use the transcripts, it was actually FAVORABLE to George.

Had the jury used Jake's transcripts then the appeals attorneys could say the jury unfairly put too much of their deliberations into the transcripts which were negative to George. Plus they could complain that the jury didn't get to see other transcripts that may have been more favorable to George.

So I do not see the transcript situation as helping George if he appeals. An attorney could weigh in which would be nice.

Does anyone know how to find a list of verified attorneys who are on Websleuths? I only know of 2.