OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

[Fat Old Man]

What does everyone think, the best deal pretrial GW4 was offered?? Life no parole? a flat 40 years? 25 years to testify? Would be very interesting to know what he was offered?

 

[Cool Cats]

As well as the Manly and Gilley families along with little BR's family.

Right. Chelsea Robinson, Frankie's oldest son's mother. I mention her name because she gave her name in a few MSM articles. She is a victim too and I hope she is doing really well and little Brently too. Tony said he wanted a relationship with him so I know they have family support. I just hope the 3 guilty verdicts bring her a bit of peace and man, I can't believe this still isn't over.

If it's true Billy came up with the idea that just makes it worse justice hasn't completely gotten him yet, but it will.

 

[Cool Cats]

In all honesty, the fear let up maybe a month or so after these murders. People were fairly confidant that it was targeted against the family but attributed it to drugs. As more and more came out, gossip changed, but with no hard evidence to prove these rumors.. what could be done? I am just thankful it is 3/4 of the way through completion.

My thoughts are of these families and I hope to help by making their holiday a little brighter. I have a couple if things in mind.

This is really nice of you. Wish I was down there so I could join in. You are a very thoughtful person. You have talked about doing things for them before. Good for you!

 

[Cool Cats]

You are correct, it was me about a month ago. I looked it up and the property owners are Edward and Rita Carter so Rita's name was never taken off the deed when they divorced. Since Ed died I assume ownership would go to Rita. Chris N. testified he lives there now with his fiance and children. Rita's mother owns the house next door.

Thanks for clearing this up.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Puzzles8 I just saw this post from you asking me if I have the Discovery. I do. See attachment.

Quote:

Just IMO, but I think Billy and his co-conspirators might have been laundering drug money through FW's 501(c)3 charities. The Lucasville Mission and the Crystal Springs home for disabled adults.

In George's Discovery were analyzed cash deposit into the accounts. @Cool Cats do you have the Discovery I am referring to? TIA!

JMO

 

[Betty P]

RE: BW, FW & FWF
The strange deal in place with JW whereby BW is not exposed to the DP if JW testifies (accurately...?) at BW's trial leads to the potential for some interesting horse trading (figuratively of course) in the near term...
The only consequential reason for BW not to plead guilty, at least as we know things now, would involve his belief that somehow a judge would sentence him to something less than LWOP. If Deering, even retired but recalled for that trial, were to be that judge: Uphill, all the way. BW has to recognize now that both prosecutors and jury would be heavily pressured by the results of GWIV's trial to achieve anything less than 21 counts of guilty...So what else would influence a decision to insist on his months in court?

In BW's case: Could be pure vindictiveness, take a few $mill out of the public coffers. Discounting that for just a moment, where lies any additional leverage that could be applied by LE to encourage BW to plead out? One interesting twist: a prosecutor could indicate that there would be no need to call JW as a witness, and that puts the DP back on the table: maybe? What else?

Well.....there is still an indictment against FW. There are considerable assets in the hands of FW. There could still very well be a civil suit upcoming against FW; and the consequence of judgment for the plaintiff would involve the liquidation of FWF and a whole list of other assets. The case for the plaintiff would be considerably facilitated if the criminal charges against FW associated with the conspiracy were reinstated and headed to trial....Even the first round of discovery could be disastrous in trying to defend against a civil suit, as it would put a whole lot of evidence in the public record as well as list or indicate the existence of extensively more potential items of evidence or avenues of investigation. And thus repesent gold to any future plaintiff in a civil proceeding....

But what a thing to lay on the victim's families: A hypothetical offer from the Prosecution to BW NOT to take FW to criminal court for any activities (associated with the murders? or...?) should BW plead guilty and accept LWOP.
If I were a member of LE at that point: I would make sure that an evidence file got to the hands of one of those who might be interested in taking FW to civil court for wrongful death.

All that could be the output of a twisted mind....and of course is JMO.

Great post! Welcome!

Yes, it's an interesting state of affairs. I suppose it depends on how much of FW's assets have been squirreled away. She keeps some of the top lawyers in SE Ohio on retainer to handle her affairs. The also appear to have close associations with the Pike County courts. JMO, she has greater influence over how Billy's case is handled than anyone else, with the exception of Gov. DeWine.

If she has her assets locked up, she may leave it up to Billy to decide whether to keep fighting. He's a stubborn guy who wants to prove a point - that no one controls him.

Like his other family members, he doesn't feel any regrets about killing 8 innocent people. They think the Rhodens "deserved it" and Hanna Gilley was just unlucky. Wagners are raised to believe they're superior to others and entitled to follow their own rules. (Wagner exceptionalism) That's why he wants to fight in court. He thinks he can win because he didn't do anything wrong, even though he murdered his former friend and his family. JMO, had they not murdered so many people, the Wagners probably would have gotten away with it. The intense scrutiny from worldwide news media and outsiders brought pressure to bear on the local system.

FW or her attorneys are probably advising him. JMO, it's hard to say what he will decide. He doesn't listen to his own attorneys advice, but he might listen to his mother's. But what advice will she give? It was revealed that she was giving controlled substances to Billy from her nursing home. The statute of limitations on that is 6 years, so it may not apply. Perhaps it could impact the licensing of her nursing home.

 

[CIA Team Member]

I wonder if Parker and Nash had ever worked together before? Who was the one deciding on the approach the defense took?
I think they did the best job, they could have, with what they had to work with.
I did not care for their style, but it might have been the only things they could do.
Would be interesting to hear them, explain how they approach a case like this. Also, if they clashed over the direction they took.
Not to hear if they thought the jury got it wrong. More from this is why we did this or that.

Parker is death penalty certified, Nash is not. The DP was removed under Parker's requests motion(s).

 

[Cool Cats]

I’m lying here awake & the same thought keeps going around in my mind:
These [derogatory term] murdered 8 people because THEY thought the held the moral high ground? This den of thieves & liars & con artists really thought that THEY could raise Sophia better than the Rhodens? Do they not see the absurdity of that belief? THEY KILLED 8 PEOPLE. But the Rhodens are the bad guys- Ack!
***rant ends
Quick question: since the DP was taken off the table, does that mean there won’t be an automatic appeal? Because I’m pretty sure the Rhodens, Gilleys & Manleys wouldn’t be upset if they never had to sit in the same room with the Wagners again.
Another quick question: will the folks who are caring for George IV & Jake’s children be forced to visit dear old dad in prison? Gosh I hope not.

In Ohio it is very clear that if a parent kills the other parent, the parent who killed loses all their rights to see or communicate with their child. Jake lost all his rights to see or even communicate with his child.

It is my opinion that George will not be able to use the law to force his son to have anything to do with him. I don't know about what the laws are about incarcerated parents being able to have contact with their children in Ohio, but I can't imagine that George could force contact with his son. I do not think it's possible, my opinion.

As far as appeals go, when you take a plea deal like Angie and Jake, you lose the right to appeal.

George is different because he went to trial. Because he went to trial he can appeal. At his sentencing we might hear his attorneys say they will appeal, or that George will be getting new counsel to do his appeals.
Not sure what will happen with George appealing. I assume he will but can't know for sure until something is said about it.

In my opinion it would only be a formality anyway. I see no grounds for George to appeal. His attorneys and Judge Deering did too good of a job for an appeals court to find fault with George's defense and how Deering
ran his courtroom. The prosecution only put out evidence they could back up. No one framed George. His appeals won't mount to a hill of beans.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Great post! Welcome!

Yes, it's an interesting state of affairs. I suppose it depends on how much of FW's assets have been squirreled away. She keeps some of the top lawyers in SE Ohio on retainer to handle her affairs. The also appear to have close associations with the Pike County courts. JMO, she has greater influence over how Billy's case is handled than anyone else, with the exception of Gov. DeWine.

If she has her assets locked up, she may leave it up to Billy to decide whether to keep fighting. He's a stubborn guy who wants to prove a point - that no one controls him.

Like his other family members, he doesn't feel any regrets about killing 8 innocent people. They think the Rhodens "deserved it" and Hanna Gilley was just unlucky. Wagners are raised to believe they're superior to others and entitled to follow their own rules. (Wagner exceptionalism) That's why he wants to fight in court. He thinks he can win because he didn't do anything wrong, even though he murdered his former friend and his family. JMO, had they not murdered so many people, the Wagners probably would have gotten away with it. The intense scrutiny from worldwide news media and outsiders brought pressure to bear on the local system.

FW or her attorneys are probably advising him. JMO, it's hard to say what he will decide. He doesn't listen to his own attorneys advice, but he might listen to his mother's. But what advice will she give? It was revealed that she was giving controlled substances to Billy from her nursing home. The statute of limitations on that is 6 years, so it may not apply. Perhaps it could impact the licensing of her nursing home.

What charges are you looking at for the the 6 years of statute of limitations?

 

[Niner]

What charges are you looking at for the the 6 years of statute of limitations?

from my notes:

*Fredericka Carol Wagner (76/now 80) (Paternal grandmother) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18) charged & arraigned (11/15/18) with 1 count of 3rd degree perjury & 1 count of 5th degree obstruction of justice. Plead not guilty. $100K Surety bond. Pike County #2018-CR-000159 DOB 5/10/42
6/26/19 Update: State is asking that a charge be dismissed without prejudice. No objection by defense on dismissal. Case discussed without prejudice. Bond is released. The dismissal was so prosecution can analyze further new & favorable evidence without running out of speedy trial time. Charges could be refiled. There’s a six-year statute of limitations. The gag order over the case survives the dismissal, per order of Judge Deering. The new information being analyzed presumably stems from what was provided by defense in March which Owen had argued proved Wagner's innocence.

 

[Betty P]

What charges are you looking at for the the 6 years of statute of limitations?

Drug trafficking - from FW giving Billy controlled substances (oxy?) from the nursing home she owns. If there's any money laundering involved, it might be different.

 

[Betty P]

from my notes:

*Fredericka Carol Wagner (76/now 80) (Paternal grandmother) indicted (11/12/18), arrested (11/13/18) charged & arraigned (11/15/18) with 1 count of 3rd degree perjury & 1 count of 5th degree obstruction of justice. Plead not guilty. $100K Surety bond. Pike County #2018-CR-000159 DOB 5/10/42
6/26/19 Update: State is asking that a charge be dismissed without prejudice. No objection by defense on dismissal. Case discussed without prejudice. Bond is released. The dismissal was so prosecution can analyze further new & favorable evidence without running out of speedy trial time. Charges could be refiled. There’s a six-year statute of limitations. The gag order over the case survives the dismissal, per order of Judge Deering. The new information being analyzed presumably stems from what was provided by defense in March which Owen had argued proved Wagner's innocence.

Right. The charges they brought in 2018 could technically be renewed. We need to ask @PrairieWind about the possibility of other charges based on other evidence revealed in the proffers and at trial.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Drug trafficking - from FW giving Billy controlled substances (oxy?) from the nursing home she owns. If there's any money laundering involved, it might be different.

Unless charges for her stealing medications is filed under seal, I've not seen it. Therefore, there aren't statute of limitations ticking.
The feds/state can charge her on this. There was more than her participating in this scheme. An RN/LPN had to sign off for narcotic loss(es). These forms are forwarded to the state.

 

[Pru2U]

What does everyone think, the best deal pretrial GW4 was offered?? Life no parole? a flat 40 years? 25 years to testify? Would be very interesting to know what he was offered?

My understanding is all 4 were offered casual deals at one time or another, meaning Prosecution made it known to each of their attorneys the state was open to dealing but no specifics were mentioned - a standard approach.

The way I understand it, the defendant decides what they are willing to barter & in turn, their attorney approaches prosecution as to what the state is willing to offer. Both Jake & Angela made their own deals (via their attorneys). GW could have made his own deal, he chose not to. I don't know if Billy still has much to barter with...maybe saving the state the cost of another trial and sparing the families but BW doesn't seem to be the type to think about how his actions affect anyone else. He is very likely to risk trial. Either way, the worst he can get is LWOP as long as Jake testifies against him.

Note: according to her deal, Angela's testimony only affects Angela whereas Jake asked for DP to be removed for himself and each of his family members in exchange for his testimony. Angela is the one who threw the family under the bus, not Jake.

I will always wonder if any of them will ever accept responsibility for their individual actions (or inaction) that led to the murder of 8 innocent lives and leaving children without their parents -OR- if they all believe Jake is the reason they're all in jail in the first place.

 

[Betty P]

My understanding is all 4 were offered casual deals at one time or another, meaning Prosecution made it known to each of their attorneys the state was open to dealing but no specifics were mentioned - a standard approach.

The way I understand it, the defendant decides what they are willing to barter & in turn, their attorney approaches prosecution as to what the state is willing to offer. Both Jake & Angela made their own deals (via their attorneys). GW could have made his own deal, he chose not to. I don't know if Billy still has much to barter with...maybe saving the state the cost of another trial and sparing the families but BW doesn't seem to be the type to think about how his actions affect anyone else. He is very likely to risk trial. Either way, the worst he can get is LWOP as long as Jake testifies against him.

Note: according to her deal, Angela's testimony only affects Angela whereas Jake asked for DP to be removed for himself and each of his family members in exchange for his testimony. Angela is the one who threw the family under the bus, not Jake.

I will always wonder if any of them will ever accept responsibility for their individual actions (or inaction) that led to the murder of 8 innocent lives and leaving children without their parents -OR- if they all believe Jake is the reason they're all in jail in the first place.

In closing arguments, AC stated the state didn't offer GW4 a deal. I think its up to the defense attorneys to talk to their client and persuade them to do that. Agree on the rest. Jake made a good deal for all of them if they go to trial and lose. They still only get LWOP.

 

[TopHat123]

In Ohio it is very clear that if a parent kills the other parent, the parent who killed loses all their rights to see or communicate with their child. Jake lost all his rights to see or even communicate with his child.

It is my opinion that George will not be able to use the law to force his son to have anything to do with him. I don't know about what the laws are about incarcerated parents being able to have contact with their children in Ohio, but I can't imagine that George could force contact with his son. I do not think it's possible, my opinion.

As far as appeals go, when you take a plea deal like Angie and Jake, you lose the right to appeal.

George is different because he went to trial. Because he went to trial he can appeal. At his sentencing we might hear his attorneys say they will appeal, or that George will be getting new counsel to do his appeals.
Not sure what will happen with George appealing. I assume he will but can't know for sure until something is said about it.

In my opinion it would only be a formality anyway. I see no grounds for George to appeal. His attorneys and Judge Deering did too good of a job for an appeals court to find fault with George's defense and how Deering
ran his courtroom. The prosecution only put out evidence they could back up. No one framed George. His appeals won't mount to a hill of beans.

Thank you!
I’d like to add that I’m new & you guys are very knowledgeable & nice too.

 

[iulia]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1598763596908986378

 

[Puzzles8]

@Puzzles8 I just saw this post from you asking me if I have the Discovery. I do. See attachment.

Quote:

Just IMO, but I think Billy and his co-conspirators might have been laundering drug money through FW's 501(c)3 charities. The Lucasville Mission and the Crystal Springs home for disabled adults.

In George's Discovery were analyzed cash deposit into the accounts. @Cool Cats do you have the Discovery I am referring to? TIA!

JMO

Thank you!

 

[CIA Team Member]

In closing arguments, AC stated the state didn't offer GW4 a deal. I think its up to the defense attorneys to talk to their client and persuade them to do that. Agree on the rest. Jake made a good deal for all of them if they go to trial and lose. They still only get LWOP.

AC stated in one of the prelim hearings they all were offered a plea. Interesting....IMO
No link. Too lazy.

 

[justtrish]

AC stated in one of the prelim hearings they all were offered a plea. Interesting....IMO
No link. Too lazy.

I wonder if that was referencing the state's willingness to sit down and talk with each of them prior to Jake's confession or prior to Angela's? Jake was first and I recall AC saying they then made it known that they were willing to talk to any of the other 3 that came forward because that would either corroborate Jake's story or they would learn something else and possibly contradict some of Jake's story. Then it was Angela that came forward 5 months or so later and her story did corroborate Jake's. I wonder if both actually are true then? All were offered the chance to talk, but once Jake and Angela both did talk, the deals were off because George and Billy didn't take the chance when it was offered to them?