OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #55

[OhioBlues]

If you were going to commit murder, would you buy guns from anybody? Steal them or use guns from
your own stash. I don't know anyone who has less than 2 handguns at home. Nobody would buy guns at a place where you picture is on security cams, they look at your drivers license and record the serial number. Besides, I don't think Wal*Mart sells handguns.

I haven't given up the idea of the W4 selling guns illegally all over the country. jmo

I believe they bought little dogs from humane shelters all over Ohio then reselling them as a Special 'High Price' Breed. jmo

 

[Berrybell]

I haven't given up the idea of the W4 selling guns illegally all over the country. jmo

I believe they bought little dogs from humane shelters all over Ohio then reselling them as a Special 'High Price' Breed. jmo

You can buy guns at flea markets, Armslist, and gun shows without showing ID or background checks.

 

[Loomis124]

I haven't given up the idea of the W4 selling guns illegally all over the country. jmo

I believe they bought little dogs from humane shelters all over Ohio then reselling them as a Special 'High Price' Breed. jmo

I agree!

 

[Dontknow?]

A person that owns a gun and pawn shop doesn't have to necessarily abide by the law.

What if someone owned a gun and pawn shop and was also involved in other businesses? What if it was their mom/wife/daughter that owned the gun/pawn shop?

I do believe that someone that for example 'sells cars, realtor or something else' and wants your business they MIGHT just sell you guns (under the table) if they want your other business. Especially, if they are your friend and you say (for example) that I will do this for you if you will sell me guns under the table. JMO.

In the State of Ohio, you also have to prove you reside in the same state that you are purchasing a firearm plus your age.

Or you also money launder. Just came to me. Ignore if you want. smile

 

[Puzzles8]

FYI - I just found a good summary of gun laws in Ohio.

Firearm Law Questions | Ohio Gun Law Questions | Columbus

JMO, MOO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

I can’t see the murders going in on the Rhodens family with pistols only, I would think they used 22 caliber AR and each person had a pistol also for close range assault, JMO
It would be easier to hit a moving target like Big Chris with a riffle in stead of a pistol,but we will not know until the BCI reports come out!

 

[Puzzles8]

A person that owns a gun and pawn shop doesn't have to necessarily abide by the law.

What if someone owned a gun and pawn shop and was also involved in other businesses? What if it was their mom/wife/daughter that owned the gun/pawn shop?

I do believe that someone that for example 'sells cars, realtor or something else' and wants your business they MIGHT just sell you guns (under the table) if they want your other business. Especially, if they are your friend and you say (for example) that I will do this for you if you will sell me guns under the table. JMO.

In the State of Ohio, you also have to prove you reside in the same state that you are purchasing a firearm plus your age.

Does this mean sellers/buyers of firearms are on the honor system?

Is there any tracking of ammo?

 

[OhioBlues]

I can’t see the murders going in on the Rhodens family with pistols only, I would think they used 22 caliber AR and each person had a pistol also for close range assault, JMO
It would be easier to hit a moving target like Big Chris with a riffle in stead of a pistol,but we will not know until the BCI reports come out!

What type of large caliber gun for GR?

 

[OhioBlues]

Does this mean sellers/buyers of firearms are on the honor system?

Is there any tracking of ammo?

Honor system (with rules) unless you are a licensed dealer. If you sell then you need to check their drivers license and make sure they live within the state and proper age. You are not required to write the name down or their license number.

A licensed dealer (even at a gun show or flea market) has to run you thru the database before they can sell to you...ditto with internet (you pick it up at a licensed dealer).

No tracking of ammo that I know of (but might be on certain types of ammo).

That's what I think that I know.

 

[OhioBlues]

I can’t see the murders going in on the Rhodens family with pistols only, I would think they used 22 caliber AR and each person had a pistol also for close range assault, JMO
It would be easier to hit a moving target like Big Chris with a riffle in stead of a pistol,but we will not know until the BCI reports come out!

A rifle is more accurate than a handgun?

That gives me the creeps to think how close they were to the victims and those children.

 

[Dontknow?]

From OH. I'll ask my family member. Doesn't live in OH and hasn't for maybe 30 years or more but he knows guns and prices.

Let me know if you have a question to ask him. I have mine.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

What type of large caliber gun for GR?

It could have been a 25 caliber, 32 caliber, or a 9 mm caliber anything bigger with being Shot 3 times to the Head would have meant closed coffin funeral, and the only one of the victims that had to have a closed coffin funeral was Little Hannah Gilley, which was a-shame because she was a pretty young woman, JMO

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Do you sleuthers find it odd that grandma Fredericka Wagner every chance she could last summer and fall would say that the 4 Wagners where innocent but we have not heard grandma Rita Newcomb say not even onetime that the 4 Wagners are innocent, she knows what her daughter/family is capable of, JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Do you sleuthers find it odd that grandma Fredericka Wagner every chance she could last summer and fall would say that the 4 Wagners where innocent but we have not heard grandma Rita Newcomb say not even onetime that the 4 Wagners are innocent, she knows what her daughter/family is capable of, JMO

No one has been interviewing her and she isn't having her attorney and Plain Dealer journalists over for coffee in her kitchen, all so she can be recorded doing several 3 minute video clips to put up on you tube.

If she was interviewed I wonder if she would be as adamant as Fred about her grandkids being innocent, she probably wouldn't mention Angie considering what was said about her at the plea deal.

 

[Berrybell]

Honor system (with rules) unless you are a licensed dealer. If you sell then you need to check their drivers license and make sure they live within the state and proper age. You are not required to write the name down or their license number.

A licensed dealer (even at a gun show or flea market) has to run you thru the database before they can sell to you...ditto with internet (you pick it up at a licensed dealer).

No tracking of ammo that I know of (but might be on certain types of ammo).

That's what I think that I know.

I'm not sure about the state you live in, but in Oklahoma gun shows, flea market and Armslist do not require a back ground check. I have bought and sold several guns at all three. We are not criminals or any thing underground, my husband enjoyed buying and selling firearms. You also do not need a license to buy or sell your personal collection in Oklahoma.

 

[OhioBlues]

I'm not sure about the state you live in, but in Oklahoma gun shows, flea market and Armslist do not require a back ground check. I have bought and sold several guns at all three. We are not criminals or any thing underground, my husband enjoyed buying and selling firearms. You also do not need a license to buy or sell your personal collection in Oklahoma.

In Ohio, we can make private gun sales at flea markets or gun shows if one is not a licensed dealer. Imo

The main thing that I have been trying to say is if my spouse owns a gun store and I don't. The workers in the gun store (as they are working) have to follow the firearms license law.

What stops me from trading, buying or selling guns if I don't have a license..if I was the spouse?

I don't think anything does. I think they might have a nice illegal business set up. Jmo

 

[Betty P]

Rita getting sentenced before the Wagner 4 trials means there will be no trials. Why? Because of Wagner-4 plea agreements. Red flag means bad for the Wagners because plea agreements mean some guilty pleas. Opinion only.

My guess on what the "red flag" means.

Hypothetically speaking, if RN gets a good deal from her plea agreement in court before the 4 Wagners' trials it could mean she no longer has any incentive to give helpful, important testimony to help convict them. It would be questionable for a prosecutor to agree to such an arrangement.

Plea agreements usually hinge on helpful testimony and/or evidence. The quality of the defendant's testimony and information provided determines how good a deal they get after they've testified in court.

If you go back to RN's last hearing when she agreed to a plea deal, Judge Deering told her at the end that her sentence will depend on how well she cooperates and that, for any reason, she can still be tried on the original charges and receive a sentence. IOW, he told her that her plea deal can be revoked if she doesn't cooperate.

 

[Loomis124]

FYI - I just found a good summary of gun laws in Ohio.

Firearm Law Questions | Ohio Gun Law Questions | Columbus

JMO, MOO

With all due respect, do you really think gun laws mattered in these murders?

 

[Cool Cats]

Hypothetically speaking, if RN gets a good deal from her plea agreement in court before the 4 Wagners' trials it could mean she no longer has any incentive to give helpful, important testimony to help convict them. It would be questionable for a prosecutor to agree to such an arrangement.

Plea agreements usually hinge on helpful testimony and/or evidence. The quality of the defendant's testimony and information provided determines how good a deal they get after they've testified in court.

If you go back to RN's last hearing when she agreed to a plea deal, Judge Deering told her at the end that her sentence will depend on how well she cooperates and that, for any reason, she can still be tried on the original charges and receive a sentence. IOW, he told her that her plea deal can be revoked if she doesn't cooperate.

BBM

He said if she doesn't abide by her bond requirements she will end up in jail.
Your right, the prosecutors will not try to get her charges 1,2,3 and 5 dismissed or get her a lower sentence if she refuses to cooperate. In essence, she will have voided her cooperation agreement

This is all he said about her cooperating:

Judge Deering:

The prosecution has indicated if you enter a plea of guilty to this amended charge in exchange for other cooperation with the State, the State will make certain recommendations. There is no agreement as to the penalty but they will make recommendations as to dismissal of counts 1,2,3 and 5 and will also have an opportunity to argue at the sentencing hearing what penalty the court should impose for the 2nd Degree Misdemeanor you plead guilty to, your attorney will also have the opportunity to make argument.

Deering then made it clear that the court could impose a different sentence than what the prosecutors recommend.

Rita then plead guilty.

After that:

Bond is discussed. She will remain on bond and continue to report to her community control officer but Canepa released her from house arrest and the ankle monitor. She will go to jail if she doesn't comply with her bond requirements.

She was told not to have any contact with the victims or any of the defendants and Gerlach - her attorney - asked if that includes Fred because her charges were dropped, and Deering said yes it does include Fred. Gerlach also asks for the recordings from the GJ even though he acknowledges that he has the transcripts.

 

[Loomis124]

I can’t see the murders going in on the Rhodens family with pistols only, I would think they used 22 caliber AR and each person had a pistol also for close range assault, JMO
It would be easier to hit a moving target like Big Chris with a riffle in stead of a pistol,but we will not know until the BCI reports come out!

I'm not qualified to comment since I've only shot a gun once in my life and it nearly knocked me down.