OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #57

[Betty P]

Agreed
It wasn't stated that way is my point.
If child custody and past abusive relationships are the core motive, the defense will look for holes in how the State and their witnesses share these narratives. JMO

Below is what I heard:

AC: And when you said she fled the residence can you describe why she fled the residence?

RS: There was an incident on a particular day her and George had gotten into an argument. Eventually there was a comment by Angela that she was going to kill Tabitha so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned.

AC: Ok and actually specifically she first hid on the property until nightfall and then got on a bike and drove to a gas station and made her escape that way and never went back after that.

RS: Correct

Thanks! I'll make sure to send AC a memo next week!

 

[OhioBlues]

Agreed
It wasn't stated that way is my point.
If child custody and past abusive relationships are the core motive, the defense will look for holes in how the State and their witnesses share these narratives. JMO

Below is what I heard:

AC: And when you said she fled the residence can you describe why she fled the residence?

RS: There was an incident on a particular day her and George had gotten into an argument. Eventually there was a comment by Angela that she was going to kill Tabitha so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned.

AC: Ok and actually specifically she first hid on the property until nightfall and then got on a bike and drove to a gas station and made her escape that way and never went back after that.

RS: Correct

Totally agree!

If the W4 don't receive the best defense possible then they can appeal the verdicts and possibly walk free.

A good Defense Attorney will pick on mistakes like these. jmo

Also, these types of mistakes can matter when the jury decides on DP, LWOP or 30 years etc.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Totally agree!

If the W4 don't receive the best defense possible then they can appeal the verdicts and possibly walk free.

A good Defense Attorney will pick on mistakes like these. jmo

Also, these types of mistakes can matter when the jury decides on DP, LWOP or 30 years etc.

I see what you are saying BUT GW4 is already to throw Jake and Angela under the bus, JMO

 

[Myland]

I see what you are saying BUT GW4 is already to throw Jake and Angela under the bus, JMO

Jmo George may be ready to blame Angela and Jake but prosecution is helping him out with the constant referencing of Jake and Angela. The more they repeat their names without putting George in there only helps the defense. I know we only seen a tiny bit but even at that it was too much of them and not him. There is many of killers in prison that had close family members that had no idea they were killers. Many families can raise two kids exactly the same and one can be evil and the other not. Not saying it is that way in the Wagner case they could all be evil, but you have to tie them to the evil. Jmo

 

[Cool Cats]

I sure hope that the Prosecution calls Fredericka, RW,CN, RN, EW and Tabatha to be a wittiness just see how all 4 of the Wagners react to it, JMO

My thoughts and opinions on who you are mentioning.

Tabitha to testify that Angela threatened
to kill her, GW4's use of firearms, his violent side if she saw that, Angie's and GW4's obsession with gaining custody and control of her son, and how enmeshed the 4 Wagner's are and how they did everything together.

CN on all the firearm interactions he had with the Wagners and details relating to how the Wagner's used firearms and any incriminating statements he may have overheard.

EW relating to what went on between her and Jake resulting in her filing a police report against him, details of the family dynamics and how enmeshed they are, and any threatening conversations overheard.

RN relating to the 3 forged custody documents and Angie pushing her to lie and say she signed them. Any other things Angie told her relating to the Case in Chief.

If Fred or Robin are called to the stand it will be to testify for the Defense not the Prosecution. I do not believe that Fred and Robin will testify against any of their family. Not at all.

 

[Cool Cats]

I wonder if there will be any testimony about the incident when LE placed the tracker on his and Jake's trucks? We know nothing came of that on JM's side, but wonder if there was something important learned from JW's side? Shortly after that, they took off for AK.

I don't remember about a tracker being put on Jake's truck. Can you refresh my memory? Yes I hope any tracker information comes out at trial!

 

[Johnny B Bad]

D

 

[Loomis124]

We've talked about him often back in 2016 and 2017, when he and BJM were being harassed by investigators. For the most part, everyone here defended him. Agree, he's very much a victim. I hope they call him as a witness in Jake's trial. It will be interesting to hear his side of the story in that whole mess.

Just a note of interest...Scheiderer was one of the agents who placed the tracking device on JM's vehicle. It was on a court document. JMO until I find it.

 

[Loomis124]

I don't remember about a tracker being put on Jake's truck. Can you refresh my memory? Yes I hope any tracker information comes out at trial!

IIRC, this was just a rumor. JMO

 

[Loomis124]

OT, but I think most on here would be interested.

Pike County confiscates more than 800 marijuana plants | NBC4 WCMH-TV

 

[Cool Cats]

Just a note of interest...Scheiderer was one of the agents who placed the tracking device on JM's vehicle. It was on a court document. JMO until I find it.

A different Agent put the GPS unit on JM's truck:

"On April 22nd, 2017 at approximately 11:07 hours Major Alan L. Lewis in pursuant to a court order placed a GPS (Global Positioning Satellite) tracking unit on the vehicle of James Thomas Manley."

"On April 28th, 2017 at approximately 11:35 hours the last position notification was received. The GPS unit ceased to operate. The cost of said GPS Unit Model GL300 was approximately $318.00."

Here is the REQUEST FOR ARREST WARRANT showing Scheiderer was involved in notifying JM On May 15, 2017 about the GPS unit on his car:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.x_9W9SgQSql5-VzBVdoa9QHaJ4?pid=Api&dpr=1.5

At the residence Scheiderer and 2 other BCI Agents with him discovered that JM had destroyed the GPS unit. On May 16th, 2017 an arrest warrant was signed to arrest JM for destroying the device.

Tampering with Evidence a Felony of the 3rd degree, and Vandalism a Felony of the 5th degree.

 

[sunshineray]

My thoughts and opinions on who you are mentioning.

Tabitha to testify that Angela threatened
to kill her, GW4's use of firearms, his violent side if she saw that, Angie's and GW4's obsession with gaining custody and control of her son, and how enmeshed the 4 Wagner's are and how they did everything together.

CN on all the firearm interactions he had with the Wagners and details relating to how the Wagner's used firearms and any incriminating statements he may have overheard.

EW relating to what went on between her and Jake resulting in her filing a police report against him, details of the family dynamics and how enmeshed they are, and any threatening conversations overheard.

RN relating to the 3 forged custody documents and Angie pushing her to lie and say she signed them. Any other things Angie told her relating to the Case in Chief.

If Fred or Robin are called to the stand it will be to testify for the Defense not the Prosecution. I do not believe that Fred and Robin will testify against any of their family. Not at all.

Oh I can see FW being called by prosecution about the searches and purchases she made. I can even see her possibly being asked about her being present during certain W family discussions.

 

[Cool Cats]

Oh I can see FW being called by prosecution about the searches and purchases she made. I can even see her possibly being asked about her being present during certain W family discussions.

Right, and if this happens she will be declared a hostile witness by the State of Ohio - in my opinion.

HOSTILE WITNESS

a witness who is antagonistic to the party calling them and, being unwilling to tell the truth, may have to be cross-examined by the party.

A witness who is expected to make assertions that are adverse to those being set forth by the party calling the witness. Because of the adverse nature, the questioning lawyer is given wide latitude to question the hostile witness by way of leading questions, not ordinarily permitted on direct examination. Typically called to establish the truth of matters that cannot be proved through a friendly witness.

Hostile Witness - Definition, Examples, Cases, Processes

Legal Dictionary - Law.com

 

[Tiff23fr]

Already I can see some posters on here agree with what the defense said that not enough was brought out in the bond hearing to show GW4 is connected to the murders.

In that case he deserves bond.

However, most seem to agree with what the prosecution said. I agree with the prosecution (and Judge) that there was enough brought out at the hearing to show he was involved to some degree in the murders. Thus, he should not get bond.

Thank you Judge Deering.

I believe the judge made the right the call.

 

[Tiff23fr]

AC: And did he also say to his brother that he told him that he should have gotten rid of his phone?

RS: Yes

AC: And specifically on that phone was this list of guns correct?

RS: Correct

AC: Ok Also told that he’s always getting them in trouble over a woman

RS: Yes he made a comment about that yes

Adding the "woman"
statement into the context of Jake not getting rid of his phone makes me wonder if he was already talking to another female and that's why he couldn't let himself get rid of it. Just a curiosity or an opinion around why AC added that statement where she did. Does anyone remember the Apx date he "lost his phone"?

 

[Betty P]

If Fred or Robin are called to the stand it will be to testify for the Defense not the Prosecution. I do not believe that Fred and Robin will testify against any of their family. Not at all.

I'm not sure they'll have a choice. If the prosecution decides to question them about purchases made for weapons, ammo, etc. or about texts, phone convos, meetings held, etc. they will call them as witnesses. The involvement of FW and Flying W Farms as part of the massacre is mostly unknown at this point. Prosecutor Canepa spoke of how the family intermingled funds and accounts, so its possible some of that activity took place with FWF accounts.

As enmeshed as these families were in their everyday lives, its possible some of the other Wagners will be called by the prosecution.

 

[Betty P]

AC: And did he also say to his brother that he told him that he should have gotten rid of his phone?

RS: Yes

AC: And specifically on that phone was this list of guns correct?

RS: Correct

AC: Ok Also told that he’s always getting them in trouble over a woman

RS: Yes he made a comment about that yes

Adding the "woman"
statement into the context of Jake not getting rid of his phone makes me wonder if he was already talking to another female and that's why he couldn't let himself get rid of it. Just a curiosity or an opinion around why AC added that statement where she did. Does anyone remember the Apx date he "lost his phone"?

This conversation heavily indicates that GW4 knew which guns were used in the Rhoden/Gilley Massacre. Why else would he care about Jake having that information on his cell phone? GW4 was worried LE would find it and tie those guns to the murders, as they did.

Even if GW4 only knew of the guns that were used in the murders makes him just as guilty as if he pulled the trigger. The fact that there's other evidence against him makes the prosecution's case strong.

GW4 will have to explain his remark about them getting in trouble over a woman. It could be interpreted in a couple of ways, most likely referring to the fact they felt they had to murder 8 people in order to help him get custody of his daughter.

 

[Loomis124]

A different Agent put the GPS unit on JM's truck:

"On April 22nd, 2017 at approximately 11:07 hours Major Alan L. Lewis in pursuant to a court order placed a GPS (Global Positioning Satellite) tracking unit on the vehicle of James Thomas Manley."

"On April 28th, 2017 at approximately 11:35 hours the last position notification was received. The GPS unit ceased to operate. The cost of said GPS Unit Model GL300 was approximately $318.00."

Here is the REQUEST FOR ARREST WARRANT showing Scheiderer was involved in notifying JM On May 15, 2017 about the GPS unit on his car:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.x_9W9SgQSql5-VzBVdoa9QHaJ4?pid=Api&dpr=1.5

At the residence Scheiderer and 2 other BCI Agents with him discovered that JM had destroyed the GPS unit. On May 16th, 2017 an arrest warrant was signed to arrest JM for destroying the device.

Tampering with Evidence a Felony of the 3rd degree, and Vandalism a Felony of the 5th degree.

Yes, it was Lewis. Thank you. Scheiderer went with them to JM's house to get it. This was the article I remembered.

 

[Loomis124]

AC: And did he also say to his brother that he told him that he should have gotten rid of his phone?

RS: Yes

AC: And specifically on that phone was this list of guns correct?

RS: Correct

AC: Ok Also told that he’s always getting them in trouble over a woman

RS: Yes he made a comment about that yes

Adding the "woman"
statement into the context of Jake not getting rid of his phone makes me wonder if he was already talking to another female and that's why he couldn't let himself get rid of it. Just a curiosity or an opinion around why AC added that statement where she did. Does anyone remember the Apx date he "lost his phone"?

Yes! I wonder here if George was talking about EW? George had no right to talk, LOL. IMO.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Did anyone else notice that the only shell casings found at Big Chris’s mobile home was 30 caliber and 40 caliber and there was only 22 casings at Frankie and Dana’s I wonder why????