OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #29

[Gunslinging Granny]

She actually had something to gain. Child support. They were already trading out weeks. There would be no reason that a judge would take the child from the mother and give him sole custody, solely based on the fact that they may have had more money. As long as HMR was being a good parent, wasn't a meth head, or placing the child in imminent danger, they'd have just legalized it and most likely JW would have also had to pay for her insurance, too. It is to the child, and both parent's benefit, that everything is done legally. Fathers do have rights.

In Ohio, unmarried fathers have no rights to their children until a court order has been set in place, according to The Law Offices of Virginia C. Cornwell. A court order is needed even after establishing paternity by signing the Acknowledgment of Paternity form or getting a DNA test. Establishing paternity will give the child the rights for medical and child support--it will not guarantee the unwed father visitation or custody. A court order is needed for these in order for visitation and custody agreements to be upheld.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144937-rights-of-unmarried-fathers-in-ohio/

She didn't need to formalize custody arrangements to get child support. She just needed to have a signed Acknowledgment of Paternity form to get child support.

There was something else occurring with Hanna and her toddler. Her dad had recently purchased a much nicer trailer for Hanna and her mom. Since there were custody issues occurring (statements from AW and LM verify this), I think the nicer trailer was purchased to ensure CPS couldn't find a reason to take S if people (S's paternal family) were calling the CPS hotline about HR's home.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Little B must not have seen a thing. He was sleeping on the den couch. I can see him sleeping through it though. Some kids are very deep sleepers (as are some adults).

I agree. They were shot multiple times because the cowardly murderers used small caliber weapons (which don't make a lot of noise or lethal damage with one bullet).

 

[Jennifer17]

I agree. They were shot multiple times because the cowardly murderers used small caliber weapons (which don't make a lot of noise or lethal damage with one bullet).

Even if he did wake, they were probably all probably masked with balaclavas.

 

[rsd1200]

In Ohio, unmarried fathers have no rights to their children until a court order has been set in place, according to The Law Offices of Virginia C. Cornwell. A court order is needed even after establishing paternity by signing the Acknowledgment of Paternity form or getting a DNA test. Establishing paternity will give the child the rights for medical and child support--it will not guarantee the unwed father visitation or custody. A court order is needed for these in order for visitation and custody agreements to be upheld.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144937-rights-of-unmarried-fathers-in-ohio/

She didn't need to formalize custody arrangements to get child support. She just needed to have a signed Acknowledgment of Paternity form to get child support.

There was something else occurring with Hanna and her toddler. Her dad had recently purchased a much nicer trailer for Hanna and her mom. Since there were custody issues occurring (statements from AW and LM verify this), I think the nicer trailer was purchased to ensure CPS wouldn't find reason to take S if people (S's paternal family) were calling the CPS hotline about HR's home.

I realize that, however, they were exchanging visits, and we don't know if there was an AOP completed at the hospital or not. Fathers have rights. If he wanted those rights legalized, then he should have them. Fathers have the right to see their children and be a part of their lives.

 

[rsd1200]

I agree. They were shot multiple times because the cowardly murderers used small caliber weapons (which don't make a lot of noise or lethal damage with one bullet).

That seems like it could be, especially given the gravity of CR1's injuries. He took some major stopping power. I think they shot him, and then beat him the rest of the way, to death.

 

[tlcya]

I am going to ask a favor of you all. If you see a broken quote could please alert on it? I know you may think that is a bother to the staff but really we would rather repair them sooner than later. After a broken quote is quoted it creates a further broken quote and so forth. Eventually it gets to be sort of a tangled and time consuming mess to fix but if we don't get it fixed nobody knows who actually posted what and who they are responding to.

thanks

side note: glad to see the new activity and new things to discuss in here.

 

[Renee110]

What do I expect of the governor. Well, as a resident of Pike County, where the biggest crime in the state has occurred, it is with respect I say it would be nice if he did one of the following:
1. Sit down for lunch or something with DeWine or Reader, let press take a photo.
2. Participate in a press conference with them, not talk but show his support.
3. Actually physically visit the area with Reader.
4. Come to Pike County and show everyone we also have a governor.
Its too late for him to do any of these things now, but if he's looking at another presidential run it might be nice to carry his home state. We like visitors down here too. He is governor of the whole state after all.

Bless you.

 

[Dudly]

Little B must not have seen a thing. He was sleeping on the den couch. I can see him sleeping through it though. Some kids are very deep sleepers (as are some adults).

My son is over 40 now and could sleep through a tornado destroying his house. He has slept like that since a baby...

 

[rsd1200]

In my opinion, these are people that get their 15 minutes of fame by saying I was supposed to be there that night. Either that, or they had a heads up and stayed away. My bet is the former.

Apparently they didn't realize that, 15 minutes of fame or not, that by putting themselves in a position of telling the story of being the last to see the deceased, and then modifying those stories, about what could have been their last nights on earth, makes them sound suspicious.

 

[Dudly]

I realize that, however, they were exchanging visits, and we don't know if there was an AOP completed at the hospital or not. Fathers have rights. If he wanted those rights legalized, then he should have them. Fathers have the right to see their children and be a part of their lives.

My son had a mess happen trying to get visitation when the mother was on Welfare. The Welfare worker told him if he signed papers admitting he was the father, they would guarantee him visitation. They then attached his wages for support, made him pay birthing costs, and did nothing for visitation.

 

[rsd1200]

JW is quoted as saying "I reckon we missed it by a few hours" in this article where he is interviewed.

Hanna Rhoden and Wagner shared custody of Sophia, who was supposed to be with her mom that fateful Friday evening, he said. But Wagner picked her up a day earlier than normal: "I reckon we missed it by just hours."
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/07/29/rhoden-case-hate-seeing-my-daughter-cry/87645382/

Another article states that HR and JW "exchanged" S every Saturday, but for some unknown reason, JW just mystically happened to pick her up a day early and hours before the massacre which saved her life or saved her from telling law enforcement about the bad men who went bang bang killing her mom. A 3-year-old child could tell law enforcement about the men who killed everyone in the trailer. If she knew the men, she'd identify them to law enforcement.

BBM
According to this he picked her up even earlier than a day early. They're said to have swapped on Saturdays. He didn't pick her up on Friday night. He picked her up on Thursday night.

The murders began sometime between the hours of 10:30 p.m. on Thursday night and had to be wrapped up before first light which would be around 6 ish, so they'd want to be out of there by around 5:00 a.m. or earlier (just a guess). People would begin stirring and getting out for work and on the roads by around 5:00 am.

 

[gizmobtj]

That's why BJM saw bloody drag marks in Chris Sr.'s home. They were killed first and their bodies had to be moved where they couldn't be seen from the door's window or other front windows.



Disturbing, but it now makes sense why there was a text from JM's home to the Wagner's that night. It wasn't JM texting. It was his wife AM (a relative of Angela Wagner). AM had been on the phone with DR before DR was slaughtered. DR had worked a double shift. I'll bet the double shift wasn't planned and DR agreed to work it at the last minute. This unforeseeable issue (DR working the extra shift) was why AM had to call DR late that night. She had to confirm DR arrived home.

When arrests finally come, there's going to be a lot of them.

Is there any evidence that AM spoke with DR that night or was that just a speculative comment?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

BBM
According to this he picked her up even earlier than a day early. They're said to have swapped on Saturdays. He didn't pick her up on Friday night. He picked her up on Thursday night.

The murders began sometime between the hours of 10:30 p.m. on Thursday night and had to be wrapped up before first light which would be around 6 ish, so they'd want to be out of there by around 5:00 a.m. or earlier (just a guess). People would begin stirring and getting out for work and on the roads by around 5:00 am.

The journalist went back after a year and changed her article to reflect Angela's new "story".

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Is there any evidence that AM spoke with DR that night or was that just a speculative comment?

That came from Jody Barr's news report. I can't find it now, but here's a description.

Friday, 4/22/2016

1 am: April Manley, sister in law of Dana Rhoden, exchanges text messages with Dana
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...hunt-for-killer(s)-27&p=13381905#post13381905

 

[Venom]

In Ohio, unmarried fathers have no rights to their children until a court order has been set in place, according to The Law Offices of Virginia C. Cornwell. A court order is needed even after establishing paternity by signing the Acknowledgment of Paternity form or getting a DNA test. Establishing paternity will give the child the rights for medical and child support--it will not guarantee the unwed father visitation or custody. A court order is needed for these in order for visitation and custody agreements to be upheld.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/144937-rights-of-unmarried-fathers-in-ohio/.

To me, that would be why the R's would want to get some kind of legal custody and I can't say I disagree with JW trying to go get a legal custody agreement if he was planning on it. They were sharing custody- this states that HR could have not let him see his daughter since there was no legal custody agreement.

 

[rsd1200]

My son had a mess happen trying to get visitation when the mother was on Welfare. The Welfare worker told him if he signed papers admitting he was the father, they would guarantee him visitation. They then attached his wages for support, made him pay birthing costs, and did nothing for visitation.

I removed some of my post. I get a bit tense over fathers being left out, if they want to see their child. This is similar to what happened with my son. He took the dna, and was very surprised. The judge put arrears on him, all the way back, from the birth of the child, who he didn't even know that he had. It's thousands of dollars now. Then they wouldn't hear his request for visits. He's seen the child twice. He took the child some gifts, on court day, and she let him give them to the child, in the courthouse parking lot. Nice... That was over a year ago and the last time he's seen the child. It's not right.

 

[rsd1200]

The journalist went back after a year and changed her article to reflect Angela's new "story".

Even so, they've got it all wrong. If he'd picked her up a day early, he'd have picked her up on Friday and found her there with all of the deceased. He picked her up more than a day early. That was one thing I found odd early on that he'd pick her up at 10 p.m. but it was explained away b/c he was off work for a long weekend and wanted to have her for Fri - Sat. IIRC. We didn't imagine this statement from him. It's all over the internet.

 

[Jennifer17]

I removed some of my post. I get a bit tense over fathers being left out, if they want to see their child. This is similar to what happened with my son. He took the dna, and was very surprised. The judge put arrears on him, all the way back, from the birth of the child, who he didn't even know that he had. It's thousands of dollars now. Then they wouldn't hear his request for visits. He's seen the child twice. He took the child some gifts, on court day, and she let him give them to the child, in the courthouse parking lot. Nice... That was over a year ago and the last time he's seen the child. It's not right.

No, it is not right, but young men should protect themselves from this kind of thing.

 

[Jennifer17]

Even so, they've got it all wrong. If he'd picked her up a day early, he'd have picked her up on Friday and found her there with all of the deceased. He picked her up more than a day early. That was one thing I found odd early on that he'd pick her up at 10 p.m. but it was explained away b/c he was off work for a long weekend and wanted to have her for Fri - Sat. IIRC. We didn't imagine this statement from him. It's all over the internet.

I have always thought the 10pm pick up was odd. A three year old should have been asleep for two hours before 10pm. Was she three years old at that time?

 

[jk204]

Off of the JW topic for a sec. KR2 says nothing about following HMR, nor fishing with her, nor following behind her, with a boyfriend who developed a toothache, so they had to turn around, and then she was offered a babysitting job, and couldn't go back to stay the night b/c she needed the money.

In this article she only states that she'd been asked to babysit and couldn't stay over with her. This was a Thursday night.

What did KR2 do for a living?

See interview with Jody Barr october 2016. The prints and video documents. Near the end of the 6:30 minutes interview