Ohio: East Palestine Train Derailment, Risk of Explosion

Hadn't read anything about intentional railroad sabotage. What have you read about it? We have seen news coveerage and photos of dying livestock. Not about birds dying 6 hours away.

From what I've read so far, I don't like the changes made to length of trains with small crews, especially when hazardous loads are in the train consist.

As for the reporter who was arrested, it doesn't sound like he was trespassing or doing anything inappropriate. As for the Ohio National Guard, well, there was May 4. Sounds like their culture hasn't changed. JMO.
The examples I gave are things that I have seen random internet people saying online over the past days, not that are being reported on - they are not being reported on, IMO, because they are not true...they are online rumors. Rumors that get perpetuated and take away from the actual problems that are happening.

Animals: we've seen dead fish, we've seen a couple dead foxes that were located in the evacuation zone, we've seen a small flock of chickens in North Lima wiped out, we've read of 20+ families reporting health concerns with pets (per the Columbiana County Humane Society). While I'm sympathetic to anyone who has had any loss of animals, I do not consider a 10 hen backyard flock of chickens to be "livestock," but some might, I guess. If you have seen other credible instances of dying livestock, please do provide that source. What I'm saying, as a member of the ag community in Columbiana County, is that those reports are at the least, exaggerated, and at best, false. Word travels quickly; we would know.

Birds: there were photos circulating online earlier this week of dozens? More? dead starlings in a parking lot in...Kentucky somewhere, I believe. People were stretching really hard to make a connection between the dead birds and the chemical release. Six hours away. Upwind, upstream (or at least, a different water system). People who know something about bird behavior and health had plenty of plausible explanations for what could have happened to the birds, but sensationalism and salience are hard to many people to overcome.

Sabotage: I don't know, some people just need a little more tinfoil. It is eerie now, though, to sit at a railroad crossing and wait for a Norfolk Southern train to pass and just wonder what all is inside. The two I had to wait through today were mostly boxcars, but the train that derailed was seen sparking on camera just about 5 miles from our home. That's sobering.

Ohio National Guard: they claimed he was trespassing after not leaving when they had asked him to leave. The Ohio National Guard general was way out of line in being physical, but I don't think we can permanently judge an entire entity based on events from almost 53 years ago.

Sorry to vent, it's just been really frustrating to read such sensationalized reports about the area where we live, with often negative thoughts thrown at the people of EP (blaming them for voting majority Republican, for not just leaving - it's a low SES area, who can afford it?, etc.). This is all MOO.
 


Good! They changed their mind!

I posted an article where FEMA said they wouldn't help:

"FEMA continues to tell Governor DeWine that Ohio is not eligible for assistance at this time.

Dan Tierney, a spokesperson for DeWine, told Fox News Digital, that FEMA didn’t believe the incident qualified as a traditional disaster."
 
FEMA site not updated yet unless I’ve missed it. Will be patient for those in need of assistance.

 
Article does state FEMA will be of assistance tomorrow.

FEMA will deploy a senior response official and a regional incident management assistance team, or IMAT, on Saturday to help with ongoing operations like incident coordination and assessments of potential long-term recovery needs.
 



Good! They changed their mind!

I posted an article where FEMA said they wouldn't help:

"FEMA continues to tell Governor DeWine that Ohio is not eligible for assistance at this time.

Dan Tierney, a spokesperson for DeWine, told Fox News Digital, that FEMA didn’t believe the incident qualified as a traditional disaster."
Yay. Most people I have spoken to haven't understood the delay or the flat out denial that the victims were not qualified. I think the original disclaimer was because the homes were not destroyed. Whatever the case we need those who were impacted to be able to access all services available to them.
 
Yay. Most people I have spoken to haven't understood the delay or the flat out denial that the victims were not qualified. I think the original disclaimer was because the homes were not destroyed. Whatever the case we need those who were impacted to be able to access all services available to them.
This likely helped get the ball rolling on FEMA:

All 17 members of Ohio's congressional delegation wrote a letter to FEMA Thursday demanding answers to why the agency denied an aid request from Gov. Mike DeWine (R-OH).

Here is help they are getting:

1.) Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
2.) State and local officials who are leading the emergency response efforts
3.) Department of Health and Human Services
4.) Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

5.) HHS & CDC are sending a team of medical personnel and toxicologists "to conduct public health testing and assessments"

6.) Department of Transportation
7.) Federal Emergency Management Agency

8.) The Go Fund Me community is coming together to help people raise money to rebuild, purchase emergency supplies, and offset medical expenses.

9.) American Red Cross is working around the clock to provide aid to individuals at the site
10.) Residents were directed to East Palestine High School to seek shelter

11.) FEMA
 



Good! They changed their mind!

I posted an article where FEMA said they wouldn't help:

"FEMA continues to tell Governor DeWine that Ohio is not eligible for assistance at this time.

Dan Tierney, a spokesperson for DeWine, told Fox News Digital, that FEMA didn’t believe the incident qualified as a traditional disaster."

I think it was Gov DeWine who said that.
 



Good! They changed their mind!

I posted an article where FEMA said they wouldn't help:

"FEMA continues to tell Governor DeWine that Ohio is not eligible for assistance at this time.

Dan Tierney, a spokesperson for DeWine, told Fox News Digital, that FEMA didn’t believe the incident qualified as a traditional disaster."

I think it was Gov DeWine who said that. It was a good idea to get Sen. Brown and others involved. IIRC, DeWine hadn't bothered to ask the president to declare a disaster for E. Palestine. Perhaps he made some wrong assumptions. Glad it's cleared up.
 
One-third of the train's 150 cars carried this chemical. Whatever it has spilled has ended up on the Kentucky / Ohio border and will mix into the Ohio River now.

If folks are offered initial help by Norfolk Southern, be sure not to sign away any rights for future compensation. IANAL but it's advice that I felt was worth sharing.


“All these chemicals, you can measure the urine and blood levels and look at how much people have been exposed to,” he noted. The water expert said the short-term effects to exposure will end in 48 to 72 hours, but potential long-term effects should be monitored. “People with underlying health problem will be much more vulnerable with this kind of toxicity from these kind of chemicals,” he said.

Read more at: https://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article272514199.html#storylink=cpy
(https://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article272514199.html)

Norfolk Southern should be held accountable for the majority of, if not all of, the cost of this disaster unless there is someone else, additionally to blame. JM2¢ Just as Enbridge/Texas Eastern was responsible for the individuals in Lincoln County, KY, after their pipeline rupture in 2019. It basically destroyed a subdivision and vaporized a woman as she was speaking to her daughter, via phone. No warning of course. I am pretty sure that FEMA did not come in to assist. I think some lawsuits were filed against Texas Eastern pipeline for further compensation. The NTSB was the main govt. agency that investigated what went wrong.

Texas Eastern Pipline Explosion 8/01/2019, in Ky/ Enbridge/ NTSB;

August 1, 2019, 5:20 a.m. EDT

Enbridge is aware of and is responding to a rupture on the Texas Eastern system in Lincoln County, Kentucky. Our first concern is for those impacted by this incident and ensuring the safety of the community. Our teams are coordinating with first responders to secure the site. We have isolated the affected line and are working closely with emergency responders to manage the situation. We will provide more information as it becomes available.

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has assumed control of the incident site. The NTSB is investigating the incident and Enbridge is supporting that investigation.

At Enbridge, our first concern is the safety of the public and the surrounding communities.

Enbridge has mobilized emergency response personnel and resources to the site, and we are continuing to work alongside first responders.

UPDATE: August 8, 2019, 3:47 p.m. EDT

The Enbridge on-site care team is continuing to provide support to individuals and families impacted by the pipeline incident in Lincoln County, Kentucky. This team is working with the Red Cross and numerous other support organization to provide assistance with housing arrangements for those affected on an individual basis.

Enbridge has completed preliminary air, soil and water sampling from the incident site. These results indicate there is no risk to human health. We will continue to conduct sampling as part of our standard procedure to ensure the ongoing safety of the affected area. (https://www.enbridge.com/media-cent...-incident-on-texas-eastern-system-in-kentucky)

FEMA was Johnny on the spot for the flooding disaster last year, throughout Eastern Kentucky. It's been almost a year and one woman has still never been found, she was just washed away into God knows where. They recently declared her deceased.
Eastern Kentucky Flood Update

Gov. Beshear provided an update on Eastern Kentucky’s recovery and rebuilding efforts. Currently, 222 families are housed in travel trailers. Kentucky State Parks are now housing 20 people, down from the 360 people sheltered on September 1, 2022.

If flood victims need help, they should call FEMA directly or visit a Multi-Agency Resource Center. Beginning February 20, MARCs will go to a rotating schedule. This will consist of two onsite personnel and one remote support person as needed. The staff will rotate from county to county each day.

The Team Eastern Kentucky Flood Relief Fund has raised over $13.1M from more than 41,500 donors.
(https://www.kfvs12.com/2023/02/16/gov-beshear-provides-team-kentucky-update/)

Norfolk Southern's response to the disaster in EP, Ohio on 02/03/2023;
  • Nearly two weeks after a toxic train derailment occurred near the Ohio-Pennsylvania border, impacted residents hoped to voice their concerns to the rail company involved.
  • Immediately before the event, East Palestine Mayor Trent Conaway told his residents that the company, Norfolk Southern, backed out of the meeting – citing safety concerns.
    (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ailment-norfolk-southern-meeting/11270951002/)

The Federal Emergency Management Agency will send a team to East Palestine Saturday as the village contends with the aftermath of a fiery train derailment.

How do disaster declarations work?

The Stafford Act allows the president to provide states with federal relief if an emergency or disaster is declared.

Emergency declarations can apply to any situation, while disasters typically involve natural events like tornadoes, hurricanes and fires.


Is East Palestine, Ohio, considered a federal disaster?

At this point, no.

FEMA told DeWine that Ohio doesn't qualify for assistance, which is usually reserved for disasters that cause significant property damage.


DeWine said he didn’t want to give people the wrong impression by declaring a disaster on his own.

“We don’t want people to think something’s going to happen, and I try not to mislead people," he said

(https://www.yahoo.com/news/fema-helping-east-palestine-train-211445972.html)

FEMA.GOV
How A Disaster Gets Declared - FEMA Very informational video summary.

"All requests for a declaration by the President that a major disaster exists shall be made by the Governor of the affected State." ( https://www.fema.gov/disaster/how-declared)
 
One-third of the train's 150 cars carried this chemical. Whatever it has spilled has ended up on the Kentucky / Ohio border and will mix into the Ohio River now.

If folks are offered initial help by Norfolk Southern, be sure not to sign away any rights for future compensation. IANAL but it's advice that I felt was worth sharing.




Norfolk Southern should be held accountable for the majority of, if not all of, the cost of this disaster unless there is someone else, additionally to blame. JM2¢ Just as Enbridge/Texas Eastern was responsible for the individuals in Lincoln County, KY, after their pipeline rupture in 2019. It basically destroyed a subdivision and vaporized a woman as she was speaking to her daughter, via phone. No warning of course. I am pretty sure that FEMA did not come in to assist. I think some lawsuits were filed against Texas Eastern pipeline for further compensation. The NTSB was the main govt. agency that investigated what went wrong.

Texas Eastern Pipline Explosion 8/01/2019, in Ky/ Enbridge/ NTSB;


FEMA was Johnny on the spot for the flooding disaster last year, throughout Eastern Kentucky. It's been almost a year and one woman has still never been found, she was just washed away into God knows where. They recently declared her deceased.


Norfolk Southern's response to the disaster in EP, Ohio on 02/03/2023;





FEMA.GOV
JMO Gov. DeWine never contacted the president to ask him to declare E.Palestine a disaster area. That’s usually done right away, with a statement to the public and news media. It took the involvement of members of Ohio’s Congressional delegation to get the ball rolling.
 
Sorry, but that sounds like complete bull, the part about the "inaccurate forms"...I suppose those clauses just miraculously found their way into those documents. Maybe these people won't read what they're signing...
Yup. They’re just country bumpkins that aren’t very educated. They can be easily manipulated. It’s sad how many people think this.
 
The examples I gave are things that I have seen random internet people saying online over the past days, not that are being reported on - they are not being reported on, IMO, because they are not true...they are online rumors. Rumors that get perpetuated and take away from the actual problems that are happening.

Animals: we've seen dead fish, we've seen a couple dead foxes that were located in the evacuation zone, we've seen a small flock of chickens in North Lima wiped out, we've read of 20+ families reporting health concerns with pets (per the Columbiana County Humane Society). While I'm sympathetic to anyone who has had any loss of animals, I do not consider a 10 hen backyard flock of chickens to be "livestock," but some might, I guess. If you have seen other credible instances of dying livestock, please do provide that source. What I'm saying, as a member of the ag community in Columbiana County, is that those reports are at the least, exaggerated, and at best, false. Word travels quickly; we would know.

Birds: there were photos circulating online earlier this week of dozens? More? dead starlings in a parking lot in...Kentucky somewhere, I believe. People were stretching really hard to make a connection between the dead birds and the chemical release. Six hours away. Upwind, upstream (or at least, a different water system). People who know something about bird behavior and health had plenty of plausible explanations for what could have happened to the birds, but sensationalism and salience are hard to many people to overcome.

Sabotage: I don't know, some people just need a little more tinfoil. It is eerie now, though, to sit at a railroad crossing and wait for a Norfolk Southern train to pass and just wonder what all is inside. The two I had to wait through today were mostly boxcars, but the train that derailed was seen sparking on camera just about 5 miles from our home. That's sobering.

Ohio National Guard: they claimed he was trespassing after not leaving when they had asked him to leave. The Ohio National Guard general was way out of line in being physical, but I don't think we can permanently judge an entire entity based on events from almost 53 years ago.

Sorry to vent, it's just been really frustrating to read such sensationalized reports about the area where we live, with often negative thoughts thrown at the people of EP (blaming them for voting majority Republican, for not just leaving - it's a low SES area, who can afford it?, etc.). This is all MOO.
Thank you for your reply. It’s great to have someone who can keep us rooted in reality.
 
.
JMO Gov. DeWine never contacted the president to ask him to declare E.Palestine a disaster area. That’s usually done right away, with a statement to the public and news media. It took the involvement of members of Ohio’s Congressional delegation to get the ball rolling.

I don't feel as if he did either. Just based on this statement;

DeWine said he didn’t want to give people the wrong impression by declaring a disaster on his own.

“We don’t want people to think something’s going to happen, and I try not to mislead people," he said

(No disaster declaration for East Palestine train derailment but FEMA sends team to Ohio)
 

Interesting article from Modern Materials Handling magazine (science journal)
 
The examples I gave are things that I have seen random internet people saying online over the past days, not that are being reported on - they are not being reported on, IMO, because they are not true...they are online rumors. Rumors that get perpetuated and take away from the actual problems that are happening.

Animals: we've seen dead fish, we've seen a couple dead foxes that were located in the evacuation zone, we've seen a small flock of chickens in North Lima wiped out, we've read of 20+ families reporting health concerns with pets (per the Columbiana County Humane Society). While I'm sympathetic to anyone who has had any loss of animals, I do not consider a 10 hen backyard flock of chickens to be "livestock," but some might, I guess. If you have seen other credible instances of dying livestock, please do provide that source. What I'm saying, as a member of the ag community in Columbiana County, is that those reports are at the least, exaggerated, and at best, false. Word travels quickly; we would know.

Birds: there were photos circulating online earlier this week of dozens? More? dead starlings in a parking lot in...Kentucky somewhere, I believe. People were stretching really hard to make a connection between the dead birds and the chemical release. Six hours away. Upwind, upstream (or at least, a different water system). People who know something about bird behavior and health had plenty of plausible explanations for what could have happened to the birds, but sensationalism and salience are hard to many people to overcome.

Sabotage: I don't know, some people just need a little more tinfoil. It is eerie now, though, to sit at a railroad crossing and wait for a Norfolk Southern train to pass and just wonder what all is inside. The two I had to wait through today were mostly boxcars, but the train that derailed was seen sparking on camera just about 5 miles from our home. That's sobering.

Ohio National Guard: they claimed he was trespassing after not leaving when they had asked him to leave. The Ohio National Guard general was way out of line in being physical, but I don't think we can permanently judge an entire entity based on events from almost 53 years ago.

Sorry to vent, it's just been really frustrating to read such sensationalized reports about the area where we live, with often negative thoughts thrown at the people of EP (blaming them for voting majority Republican, for not just leaving - it's a low SES area, who can afford it?, etc.). This is all MOO.

If that fire/broken axle had happened an hour or so earlier, that disaster would have happened about 5 miles from me. I'm a former railroad employee and have a fair idea of things work (or don't) in Columbus. Yes, social media always exaggerates and sensationalizes events, but things are more fact based here at WS. BTW, I always watch the trains going by and can tell what most of the freight is, especially if its hazmat. I wasn't aware they were moving petrochemicals on these super-long trains. That's just crazy and I don't understand how that was allowed.

I'm glad things are on the right track now and I hope they change those rules. And reduce those 150 car trains. That sounds like short term gains for long term loss.
 

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