OK OK - Girl Scout Murders, Lori Farmer, 8, Michelle Guse, 9, Doris Milner, 10, 1977

[taramarie]

According to Penn, the true killer is a convicted rapist and murderer who currently sits on death row in Oklahoma

If this true I would think this guy would confess he has nothing left. He on death roll!
a list to death roll in OK...
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/deathrow.htm

DEATH ROW MONTHLY ROSTER

Unless, of course, he gets joy out of continuing to torment his victims' families by keeping his secret. I would imagine that the kind of person it must take to commit such an abominable crime would take pleasure in absolutely any kind of power he can retain.

 

[Koby]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forums, so I hope you don't mind my butting in with a few comments and questions.
Firstly, I just wanted to make an observation about people wondering how one person managed to keep the three girls quiet and under control. I just wanted to point out that Hart did manage to kidnap two young women. If two adults can be controlled, isn't it likely that three young girls could be even more easily controlled? The fact that one scream was heard suggests to me the scenario that the killer surprised the children, someone screamed, but he quickly got them quiet. At night, with a weapon, I don't think it would be difficult to scare children into doing what you wanted. I don't think this is proof that there must have been more than one person.
Secondly, I have a question about the footprints. One was a boot and one was a tennis shoe, correct? Which was inside and which was outside? Another question, do we know if they were bound before or after they were killed? My understanding is that there was tape over the mouths of at least two? Wouldn't it be likely that they were bound before being killed? That could account for no one hearing them screaming during the attack. Also, if Milner was treated differently than the other girls, do we know who was killed first? That could give us some clues.
I'm undecided about what I think right now, regarding the number of killers and whether Hart was involved or not. I'm still reading up on everything, but I have a theory.

 

[Koby]

Sorry to double post, but another thought occurred to me. Perhaps, if the person who did this is alive and on death row, confessing may not be what they have to lose, but more about what they have to gain. If it looks like there is evidence against someone and they are about to be executed...wouldn't they have to stay the execution in order to investigate/go to trial? Just a thought...

 

[Pensfan]

What is extremely disturbing is the comment from one of the victims' family. When they entered the courtroom for the trial, they were made to feel that they were "the enemy". The jury saw that a hometown man was on trial for the death of "outsiders".

Sadly, this incestuous mentality still exists in some areas. Never travel off the highway in SE Oklahoma.

 

[Soulmagent]

According to Penn, the true killer is a convicted rapist and murderer who currently sits on death row in Oklahoma

If this true I would think this guy would confess he has nothing left. He on death roll!
a list to death roll in OK...
http://www.doc.state.ok.us/offenders/deathrow.htm

DEATH ROW MONTHLY ROSTER

I feel like I am missing something. I found where an article says he died in prison of a heart attack. No death penalty search I came up with is showing him.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_U6toNF3ClEJ:campscottmurders.bravejournal.com/+gene+leroy+hart&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Is SE Oklahoma where the Jamison family went missing?

 

[Soulmagent]

Is SE Oklahoma where the Jamison family went missing?

Yes they went missing from Red Oak ,in Latimere county oklahoma on the panola mountain.

 

[Koby]

I feel like I am missing something. I found where an article says he died in prison of a heart attack. No death penalty search I came up with is showing him.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_U6toNF3ClEJ:campscottmurders.bravejournal.com/+gene+leroy+hart&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Hey, Soulmagent. Hart died in prison. There is a man who now says that Hart didn't do it and that the real killer is on death row. Hope this helps.

 

[CanManEh]

After reading alot of posts and articles 2 things come to mind the first is that thier is no way this was done by just one person but what i find more interesting is with all the tents that were set up how did this guy or guys know to pick the only tent with no adult inside .Something just doesn't seem right about this case to me or maybe iam missing something but i get the feeling something is being lrft out..

 

[Koby]

After reading alot of posts and articles 2 things come to mind the first is that thier is no way this was done by just one person but what i find more interesting is with all the tents that were set up how did this guy or guys know to pick the only tent with no adult inside .Something just doesn't seem right about this case to me or maybe iam missing something but i get the feeling something is being lrft out..

I'll have to look again, but I think it said that it was one of a few tents with no adult. I don't think it was the only one. Some of the girls said that a man was watching them/looked into their tents. The person who did this probably found out that way. As for the number of killers, I'm not saying I'm totally discounting that there was more than one person, but... It would be very possible for one person to do this. I just wish I had answers to the questions I have.

 

[CanManEh]

I watch a 6 part documentry last night on this case last night on you tube and it was kinda disturbing actually . The way the town rallied around the obvious suspect in my oppinion was just plain strange and the way some of the officers went about this case was just messed up using indian medecine man and smoking themselves with tobacco the officers did this but at the end it did state that the hairs were a match and the dna left in the girls was a 99.8 percent match thats pretty solid evidence to me not to mention that when he was found he was wearing one of the girls glasses . I don't know what this guy is making a movie for i would say the dna match settles this one but i would like to see a updated version of the documentry i saw last night .

 

[Pensfan]

After reading alot of posts and articles 2 things come to mind the first is that thier is no way this was done by just one person but what i find more interesting is with all the tents that were set up how did this guy or guys know to pick the only tent with no adult inside .Something just doesn't seem right about this case to me or maybe iam missing something but i get the feeling something is being lrft out..

I went to a "regional" Girl Scout exactly like this around Davis, Ok- Sulfer, Ok. except the tents were on wooden platforms. There were never any adults in the girls tents. The adults slept in the "leader" tent with other Girl Scout leaders. (Yes, there was once a time when the most dangerous things at such camps were mosquitoes and rattlesnakes.)

 

[Pensfan]

I think this new movie (if it is ever filmed) will blame Karl Myers and it wouldn't be surprising to learn that Karl Myers confessed to this unbelievable crime since his behavior was psychopathic. The man supporting this film likely served time with Karl since Karl was sent to the penitentiary near Kansas (where the filmmaker lived).

Although Karl somehow managed to get a driver's license, he scored in the mentally retarded range on several IQ tests. He never scored above borderline mentally retarded on any IQ test he was ever given. Although it doesn't take a genius to murder three defenseless little girls, Karl might not have possessed the intelligence to adequately hide his surveillance of the girls and his involvement in the murders. In addition, Karl hunted for all his victims close to his home in Picher. He lived in Picher all his life which is 90 minutes from where the girls were murdered in Locust Grove.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

OETA "Stateline" documentary looks back at the crime:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74wzoxJ_vxM

This case and story is very hard for me to look into.I've sadly seen many cases.This one bothers me the most.I will say this when I first looked into this 5 years ago.I started out defending Hart.I am not doing that any more.I'm not sure if he was there or not.The more I look into this.The more I believe and agree with what the female Juror has to say.She says and I agree with her That she is not saying he's not guilty.But evidence proved there was more than one person there.I too believe someone else was there.The video says DNA tests were done on material.Is that just one piece of material? of evidence? 3 matched Hart.2 did not.Was there other DNA on that material too.Was it someone elses DNA?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Can someone please help me.I believe I read somewhere.Hart lived with someone else somewhere?Someone helped him in the cave?Can someone help me with that story.who was this guy?Can someone tell me a little about him?

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hello, everyone. I'm new to the forums, so I hope you don't mind my butting in with a few comments and questions.
Firstly, I just wanted to make an observation about people wondering how one person managed to keep the three girls quiet and under control. I just wanted to point out that Hart did manage to kidnap two young women. If two adults can be controlled, isn't it likely that three young girls could be even more easily controlled? The fact that one scream was heard suggests to me the scenario that the killer surprised the children, someone screamed, but he quickly got them quiet. At night, with a weapon, I don't think it would be difficult to scare children into doing what you wanted. I don't think this is proof that there must have been more than one person.
Secondly, I have a question about the footprints. One was a boot and one was a tennis shoe, correct? Which was inside and which was outside? Another question, do we know if they were bound before or after they were killed? My understanding is that there was tape over the mouths of at least two? Wouldn't it be likely that they were bound before being killed? That could account for no one hearing them screaming during the attack. Also, if Milner was treated differently than the other girls, do we know who was killed first? That could give us some clues.
I'm undecided about what I think right now, regarding the number of killers and whether Hart was involved or not. I'm still reading up on everything, but I have a theory.

Was Doris Milner treated differently?May I please ask how?

 

[Pensfan]

Was Doris Milner treated differently?May I please ask how?

Michele Guse, 9, and Lori Lee Farmer, 8, had been beaten to death. Doris Milner, 10, had been beaten and strangled. All three had been raped. Michele's and Lori's bodies lay in zipped sleeping bags. Doris Milner was laying nude from the waist on the ground.

I have read that she might have been led from the tent as opposed to the others who were likely struck with a heavy object and carried out.

 

[jestor]

What is extremely disturbing is the comment from one of the victims' family. When they entered the courtroom for the trial, they were made to feel that they were "the enemy". The jury saw that a hometown man was on trial for the death of "outsiders".

Sadly, this incestuous mentality still exists in some areas. Never travel off the highway in SE Oklahoma.

I can't disagree with that sentiment, though I would argue ALL of Oklahoma is like that, not just the SE. I've had the unpleasant experience of driving through OK a few times while traveling across the Southwest. The people are very cold towards outsiders. I had a moving van breakdown once on the turnpike with my very pregnant wife and could get no assistance, not even from the Hwy patrol. Many people flipped me off and yelled insults..... like I had no right to be in their state....LOL. Finally a fellow out-of-state traveler stopped and helped out. He explained to me that I would have died out there before an OK stopped to even offer to call a tow truck. Since then, I go out of way to avoid passing through Oklahoma.

 

[jestor]

I've only taken a recent interest in this case, so my apologies if I'm mis-spoken in my post. I intend to read much more on the case over the next few weeks. That said, here goes..... In my opinion the perpetrator(s) of this unspeakable crime fit one of only a few general profiles. Let's face it, there's a pretty small subset of individuals in our society who commit such violent acts against young children. I believe the perp has committed sexual crimes against children in the past and has pedophiliac tendencies known or unknown to authorities. Given the planning, execution and physically violent nature of the Camp Scott attacks, it is unlikely this was a "first time" for the perp. Maybe it was the first time it involved murder. Perhaps the perp was arrested and convicted in the past, and decided this time he would leave no witnesses to provide identification and possibly testify. Of course, it's also possible that it's not his first child murder, and murdering his victim(s) is what always allowed him to remain free. I don't believe Hart was responsible. I think investigators should have and should still be looking for those with histories, charges and/or convictions involving the sexual assault of children. Given the time that has elapsed, I would definitely be looking for individuals from the general area who have served time time over the years and are possibly still serving time for similar crimes.

Anyone who would commit this type of crime would not only commit it once, and could not possibly fly under the radar for 30+ years. The culprit, whether still alive or dead is hiding in plain sight. Investigators need to change their focus.

 

[Pensfan]

I can't disagree with that sentiment, though I would argue ALL of Oklahoma is like that, not just the SE. I've had the unpleasant experience of driving through OK a few times while traveling across the Southwest. The people are very cold towards outsiders. I had a moving van breakdown once on the turnpike with my very pregnant wife and could get no assistance, not even from the Hwy patrol. Many people flipped me off and yelled insults..... like I had no right to be in their state....LOL. Finally a fellow out-of-state traveler stopped and helped out. He explained to me that I would have died out there before an OK stopped to even offer to call a tow truck. Since then, I go out of way to avoid passing through Oklahoma.

I will have to respectfully state that I am surprised by your assessment of Okies. A great majority of us are extremely friendly. The problem with SE Oklahoma is caused by the dangers associated with the transportation of drugs up Interstate 69 and the marijuana crops (which one can accidentally stumble into if you take detours off main roads).