OK OK - (GUILTY) - Kirsten Hatfield, 8, Midwest City, 14 May 1997 *Killer murdered in prison

[akimmel]

My stepdad and I both worked at Tinker, so there were alot of search parties, around the obvious spots, lakes, creeks, etc............My friend and I even took Seadoos out on the lakes to look on our own. I am sharing random info as I remember it, so forgive me. There were so many leads at the time, but none have panned out. Psychic Sylvia Browne even came out at one point. I have a few theories mapped out of what I think might have happened. I have spent alot of time studying predators,forenscics, etc to try and make sense of this. DISCLAIMER: I am not naming the other family members out of respect for their privacy, etc. My step-sister is married and clean now, my other niece is doing just perfect, and they are living a normal life. I am doing this on my own and hopefully will get some answers. I really appreciate the help, you guys are great, thanks! Hey SeriouslySearching, are you an Okie by chance?

 

[Boyz_Mum]

akimmel, I hope I didn't offend you with my question. I wasn't sure if there was a boyfriend or other associate that could have been around at the time.

In the interview (Geraldo) that's posted above, the information about Duncan (JET) is interesting. The information about Duncan given in the interview (he was in OK at the time of Kirsten's abduction) and the street name being "Jet", seem too coincidental. Have you spoken with Mr. Huff, the true crime blogger?

 

[Laura_Bean]

Was anything missing? Money, jewelery? More importantly was anything of the child's missing? A fave doll? A backpack she always wore? A favorite tee shirt? I am not suggesting she ran away, I am trying to find out if there is anything that she was carrying that could be identifiable. I read about a body on doenetwork.org and it was a child around her age but she had a backpack with Sylvester the cat on it, so I am trying to find out if there is anything that was taken with her that could help.

Thank you, and I am very sorry for what u and ure fam have been through.

 

[akimmel]

I am not offended Boyz Mum, you have been a lot of help! Mr. Huff talked to police here about the Joseph Duncan theory, since he was here at the time visiting his sister in Enid. A l,ot of evidence gets destroyed once police use the Luminol. Luminol is sprayed all over the house at night, then they go in with special lights, etc. and it shows any blood dating as far back as 100 years. The problem is, once they use it, other evidence is destroyed. I may be wrong here, but that is what I was told. Once the police found a joint, or part of one in the house, they became less helpful. It was like, oh, she's a druggie, so there's our answer, you know? As far as I know, Kirsten did not take any favorite toys,etc. I have been trying to match on Doenetwork too. A lot of the does around here seem older, but I don't rule them out. I would like to see the doe you found Laura Bean.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

I've been reading about Duncan- I found a blog that says Duncan was returned to prison for violating probation in April of 1997. I have to look more as he is suspected (or proven?) to have murdered a child in CA (Martinez Case) in April of 1997. Again, I have to read further.

I've been looking at some cases on the Charley Project for OK and haven't found too many cases that seem similar to Kirsten's case. Going to keep looking.

Praying for answers... Boyz_Mum :blowkiss:

 

[txsvicki]

One of the links said that Kirsten's underpants were found in the backyard. If police still have them, have they checked for dna or were they destroyed by luminol?

 

[Lyn1001]

One of the links said that Kirsten's underpants were found in the backyard. If police still have them, have they checked for dna or were they destroyed by luminol?

That's a good question!!

For some reason, this case doesn't sit well with me. Something is "off", but I can't put my finger on it.

 

[Balthazar]

I keep thinking about the fact that in this type of abduction the intruder would have to know the following:
1. That the child lived in the house.
2. Where the child's bedroom was.
3. That there was not an alarm system that would give him away.

This leads me to believe it was either someone known to the family - someone who had been in the house, perhaps a workman, perhaps a friend or friend of a friend or it was a window peeper who spent quite a bit of time on that street either the day of or evening of the abduction or sometime earlier, for he would have had to see Kirsten go into her house and see her inside her house in order to know where she was. If the person spent time there peeping into windows trying to find a child to abduct, then there is the possibility that neighbors might have seen him.

I would like to know:

1. Was Kirsten's bedroom at the front or back of the house? To me it sounds like it was a back facing bedroom with a fence around the backyard? Is this correct? And what type of fence was it? 6' wood stockade or a low chainlink or what? Were there gates to the backyard and were they kept locked?
2. Is this a one or two story house?
3. How did the police think the intruder got in the house? They had to have a theory about point of entry?
4. Did the police canvass the neighbors and ask if anyone saw anything suspicious that day such as a car that didn't belong on the street or stuff on their back porch/patio having been moved around?
5. What did Kirsten do the day of her abduction? Was she playing outdoors or in a sports game? Could someone have followed her home from some public place?
6. Were there any adult visitors or workmen in the house in the two weeks preceeding the disappearance?
7. Did the house backup to the businesses on S. Air Depot blvd? (Can you give us the exact street address? It would be helpful in order to get the lay of the land. We can look at this on zillow.com and Google Earth to see how things are set up.
8. I can't tell what kind of businesses those are behind the houses on Jet Dr., can you give me an idea what these were? Were they bars or restaurants or what and did the police talk to the people in those businesses about any new customer who came in the day before the abduction and check their security cameras to see if anything was on them such as car parked in the lot late at night?
9. At what intersection was the stop sign that the tracking dogs followed Kirsten's scent to?


Thanks in advance for any light you can shed on these questions.

 

[akimmel]

I assume the police bagged the underpants as evidence. I'm not sure if they got any DNA from them. Since they were found outside, I would think that they weren't exposed to Luminol. The underpants thing has never made sense to me either.

 

[akimmel]

Princess Rose, Here are the answers to your questions:
1) I have to honestly say that I am going need to drive by the house to get these answers. They didn't live there long before she was taken, so I never got a chance to go in the house. My mother's 1st time there was on the 13th, the night before Kirsten went missing,she went over after having dinner w/ me for my birthday. I think she may remember the layout of the house. I will try to do a drive by when I get some free time.
2) It is a one story, very small, rental house
3) To my knowledge, she was taken from her bedroom window, which was unlocked. My step-sister did mention the unlocked window in the 911 call. I'm not sure why she knew it was unlocked.
4)Police questioned everyone in the neighborhood, but no one saw anything because she was taken at night between 11:30pm and 6:00 am
5)Not sure what she did that day other than go to school? She did like to play outside, and ride her bike. Her school was less than a mile away,and I don't know if she ever rode her bike to school.
6) I'm not sure
7) I don't have the house #, but I will get it, and get back to you
8) The businesses back then were : I wanna say Auto Zone or O'Reillys auto parts store, Rapid Brake & Muffler, and some Mom & Pop stores. I assume/hope the police went to the business owners to ask about surveillance cameras. The day she was reported missing, the whole family was questioned,and I waited at my parents house for news, so I have no idea what the police did.
9) Not sure

I am sorry I don't have better info. I don't have access to the case file. These are very good questions though,and I appreciate all the help I can get

 

[Balthazar]

akimmel, try to get information about the stop sign location especially. This is important because this could indicate what direction the kidnapper took Kirsten. I looked at the neighborhood on Google Earth and I saw a lot of houses in one direction and then the highway in another direction.

It is important that we get the exact address of the house. If the house backs up to the strip mall, then these are my thoughts:

Find out what businesses were directly behind Kirsten's house. You can go in those businesses and talk to owners/management and ask them if they can recall if any employees quit/disappeared around the time of your niece's disappearance. Here is the thing, someone knew Kirsten was in that house. They were specifically looking for a girl her age. They were not interested in the 3 year old or they would have taken her, too. Someone not only knew Kirsten was there they knew which bedroom window was Kirstens. If the bedroom was at the back of the house, they were probably looking in that window from behind those businesses. I would think it likely that a sex offender/pedophile may have been working in the businesses behind your sister's house. They may have seen Kirsten in the yard or in the evening playing in her room.

Why do I think it may have been an employee? Who parks behind stores in a strip mall and enters and exits through the back door? Employees. In addition to employees, garbage collectors and delivery personnel who were in the area that day need to be considered.

If Kirsten's bedroom window was at the front of the house, the scenario is different. So we definitely need these answers.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Great thoughts Princess Rose!

I've been looking through OK offenders and found one person who is labeled as a "child stealer". I'm looking to see if any cases are similar to Kirsten's and I am not seeing a pattern or anything similar.

 

[justthinkin]

akimmel,
I am sorry your family and niece had this happen to you. Your niece was a cute little girl.

I wasn't 10 seconds into the article on your missing niece when a serial killer's name crossed my mind, Tommy Lynn Sells. He is sitting on death row in Texas for the murder of a girl in Del Rio in 1998. The two girls were sleeping in their beds in the same room. He killed one and wounded the other.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/tommy_sells/7.htm
He preyed on petite women and young girls, families he'd befriended or who had befriended him or just plain people he had stalked. Read the article as I think he is a distinct possibility in your niece's case.

I will have to go back and read all the input here. I already knew Sells MO, and he immediately came to mind when I saw your niece was taken from her bedroom. These sexual predators move around so much, they're usually long gone by the time the police have their investigation in full swing. Sells was a druggie, his drug of choice seemed to be anything he could get hold of.

I bet if you called LE up, they'd tell you Sells was a possibility. Thing is he was a drifter, used no checks, no credit cards, left no paper trails.
He traveled from Mo. to Texas, 1997-1998 IIRC. He's likely to have passed through Oklahoma City. The question is when did he make the trip or how long it took him to get from his last known crime to his next known crime.

There are probably some books or stories out there that provide something of a time line on Sells whereabouts at given times.
Had a carnival been in the area shortly before or during the time when your niece disappeared? Sells was a carnie among other things. I haven't looked at him in awhile, so will see what I can come up with time line wise.

I'm not saying he did it, but that this is his MO, and he likely passed through Ok somewhere around the time of your niece's disappearance.

Now, I'm going to bed. Should have been there hours ago!

 

[justthinkin]

I've gone back over some stuff about Tommy Sells that's available online, and I'm now thinking Kirstin is too young for Sells tastes. I think he went for pubescent girls and women.

We need to look to those pedophiles who go for pre-pubescent girls or girls and boys.

Also, Sells does not appear to have been in Oklahoma at this time. He had just gotten out of prison in W. Virginia, in May, and moved to Tennessee with his new wife.

akimmal, sadly I feel your niece was murdered, maybe even strangled in her bed as she slept, then carted outside where her murderer may have had sex with her body--that being the reason her underpants were discarded in the yard. Whoever this creep was, he was either sending a message or just sloppy. I kind of doubt the latter. Perhaps leaving panties behind was his signature at this and other abductions.

I also think Kirstin's mother knew him, and that he'd been in the house before as Princess Rose said. I concur with that. He might have been a new friend of Kirstin's mother, a casual acquaintance who'd come with a friend of hers for a visit prior to the abduction. He may have been a mechanic, a roofer, worked odd jobs in the neighborhood or again as PRose has said, worked in one of the buildings behind the residence where he'd observed mother and daughter. He may have even been sleeping behind the buildings, a drifter, like Sells was.

 

[akimmel]

Thank you all for your questions and comments, it really helps me see the case with fresh eyes.I will work on getting to info you requested, not sure if LE will give me any info, or if the case file is public. I have never tried to get a copy, because I always thought I couldn't. So, if any of you know the rules, etc. for obtaining the info, let me know please? thanks

 

[Balthazar]

akimmel,
Usually all you have to do is go to the police records department and fill out a form requesting the public records on the case. They may make you pay for the copy, which is a nominal charge. It may also be worthwhile to make an appointment with the detective in charge of the case and sit down with him or her and ask them to tell you what they can.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

akimmel, I am curious if the home was a rental or did Kirsten's family own the home? If they hadn't lived there long or if someone lived there previous to them, there would be other people who could have been in the house (aside from Kirsten's family and acquaintances?)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

My stepdad and I both worked at Tinker, so there were alot of search parties, around the obvious spots, lakes, creeks, etc............My friend and I even took Seadoos out on the lakes to look on our own. I am sharing random info as I remember it, so forgive me. There were so many leads at the time, but none have panned out. Psychic Sylvia Browne even came out at one point. I have a few theories mapped out of what I think might have happened. I have spent alot of time studying predators,forenscics, etc to try and make sense of this. DISCLAIMER: I am not naming the other family members out of respect for their privacy, etc. My step-sister is married and clean now, my other niece is doing just perfect, and they are living a normal life. I am doing this on my own and hopefully will get some answers. I really appreciate the help, you guys are great, thanks! Hey SeriouslySearching, are you an Okie by chance?

Boomer Sooner! You betcha! I am in Tulsa.

All good information you are providing for us and you are to be commended for protecting their privacy. If you have theories mapped out, please feel free to share them. Someone close to the case has a better understanding of the situation and gut feelings are always a plus in any case. We take everything into consideration here.

I am glad to hear your sister grew up and your other niece is doing so well. Such a trauma for the entire family is difficult to recover from and your sister sounds like she made it out of the worst of it. For your niece, it is so important to grow up normally and without the drug scene invading her life.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I am not sure if you mentioned this before, but I would go to the library and search their archives for newspaper articles then you can go buy the papers. I have found many older stories aren't found online for some reason. If you get the actual copies of the papers from the days before and after she went missing, you can see for yourself what other happenings were going on in the area at the time. Pay attention to the classified ad section for rental property nearby, jobs in the strip mall, and other details affecting the surrounding area, too.

Does the name Terry ring any bells with you? I don't have a last name.

 

[Balthazar]

akimmel, I think you should also ask you sister for a list of everyone who had been to her new house before Kirsten disappeared - for example, friends, repairmen, moving men (what company?) because that might also be helpful. If she can name the names of friends who had been there, you can look the men up in the sex offender registry to try to find a match - people who are pedophiles always reoffend, they cannot control themselves, so it is likely they have reoffended since Kirsten's disappearance and been caught at some time. Why had your sister recently moved to that house, anyway? Where did she move from? These are all questions that can provide insight into the situation surrounding Kirsten's disappearance. I would even want to know about the realtor who helped your sister find that house, if there was one.

I would also ask police about any calls placed by the school as to strangers on
school property in the timeframe preceeding Kirsten's disappearance.