OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[txdawn]

Has anyone though about inviting the family here via message on Facebook? I mentioned it on the page but not sure if they saw it. Maybe Websleuthers could help them?

 

[txdawn]

I saw where family is looking for someone to do a rewind on the scanner back on the date the police chase happened. Does anyone know if that's possible?

 

[Hatfield]

By the way, the only way I would recant is if he bought me a brand new car and I may not even accept that offer. I wonder what he said to her to change her mind? Alas, maybe she is just a fool. There are a lot of foolish women, who allow these duds to walk all over them.

JMO

I am guessing that the reason she recanted on the car being stolen was because she knew her insurance company would cover the car if she just claimed that she lent him (i.e., a friend) the car to drive.

She probably knew if she claimed it was stolen, then her insurance company would first have to go after him in court for the damages, and since he probably didnt have much money, that court case would have to drag out in a long court battle before the insurance company would finally pay her any money.
But, if she just claimed she lent a friend (him) the car, then maybe the insurance would pay her directly right away.

It was most likely the easiest way to get money from the insurance company.

 

[Hatfield]

I saw where family is looking for someone to do a rewind on the scanner back on the date the police chase happened. Does anyone know if that's possible?

This is a really good thought if the scanner tapes are recorded anywhere. Im not sure if any of the 3rd party sites that have the scanners even record them or not.

Even if they dont, I do wonder if LE themselves record their own radio coverage for their towns. If they did, Im not sure if they could be requested by any lawyers or not, since I am not sure if they are considered public record or not. If a court case ever comes to fruition, perhaps they can be requested by parties of the court case. Since things are getting older each day, if they do exist, they need to be pursued quickly as they may only keep them for a period of time.

It would be interesting to hear near the end of the car chase, if it can be confirmed that LE really called off the pursuit or not.

 

[Eileen730]

However, I would think that the car being wrecked near "the land" along with the cell phone ping coming from that area would be reason enough to obtain a warrant to search the land. In my mind, CN could have been on a whole other continent that night and they still have reason to search that land!

Hmmm don't they need to file an accident report!

Why is it so easy to hide behind our laws?

 

[sloane7777]

Amen! I'm not understanding the difficulty of obtaining a search warrant or the hesitancy to obtain one. The entire property needs to be searched. Of course, this all took place 3 months ago, so there's no telling where any evidence could be at this point. Plenty of time, by now, to dispose of and/or remove any evidence.

I read that Molly is 1/2 Chickasaw. What can they do by going through the Chickasaw Nation? Can the Nation call in special investigators or something?

I wonder if the have contacted BIA they indeed might be able to help it might have to be on Indian land though

 

[CatFancier]

I saw where family is looking for someone to do a rewind on the scanner back on the date the police chase happened. Does anyone know if that's possible?

We have wonderful volunteers in the Parking Lot that offer that service for free. They would need to provide dates and times and off we go!

 

[OkieGranny]

A few thoughts this morning before trying to finish up that transcript:

Finally found the street address of the Property That Cannot Be Searched. It is the one I thought it was, on Long Hollow Road with a swimming pool in the middle of a circle drive. The area around the house is not fully treed, so I'm wondering exactly how far the property lines extend. Still trying figure out exactly where the car was found.

I want to know more about what was going on before the car chase. Colt had a baby with CN's girlfriend (not the owner of the car). Now, I don't know if this was a current or ex-girlfriend of CN's at the time she became pregnant, but she was allegedly beaten up by CN when she was six months pregnant. This is according to Molly's brother, who further states that she did press charges but nothing was done. I assume that means no arrest and no prosecution. This would indicate some degree of bad blood between these two young men. Why were they in the car together that night? Was Colt a willing passenger?

This car was a 2012 Honda Accord, not some rolling hunk o' junk that only needed a crumpled fender to be considered totalled. I'm wondering if the insurance company has any idea of the controversy surrounding the wreck of this vehicle. Insurance companies will jump at any chance to avoid paying out money. They have their own investigators who will check out a vehicle and the circumstances surrounding a wreck or theft, looking for fraud or any other reason not to pay out if they have reason to be suspicious. There's plenty of reason to be suspicious in this case, IF they know the details of what happened that night.

 

[Hatfield]

We have wonderful volunteers in the Parking Lot that offer that service for free. They would need to provide dates and times and off we go!

I have listed below the best summary I found of the dates/times/counties involved with the car chase. Can someone direct this to someone who may be able to see if they can find anything on any tapes that may still be available?

IMO, I think it would be great if someone could find and listen to any dispatch tapes to see if they could understand a few things. Things like...

1-Did they really call off the chase + not pursue any further ?
2-What happened right at the end of the chase ? If anything ?
3-There was a 911 call also a little while later. Is anything said about this 911 call coming in?

Below is the best information I found that summarizes dates/times/counties involved....I am paraphrasing....
------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Molly Miller was allegedly in a car with 2 others. Supposedly, Molly + Colt Haynes have apparantly been missing since that very night. The 3rd person who some claim was the alleged driver was named "Con" and he is the only one that is no longer missing. The car chase allegedly ended near his property.

- They were in Wilson, Oklahoma on the night of July 7th at approx. 10:30 P.M at which point the driver of the car allegedly instigated a chase with Wilson PD, when he allegedly did a doughnut right in front of an officer.

-The chase proceeded to County Line Road where Love County picked up pursuit.

-The pursuit continued on to Long Hollow Road where officers were advised to block off Long Hollow Road, which happens to be a dead end road.

-Love County says they were dusted out and lost sight of the car.

-The car was found 2 weeks later, in a field near where the pursuit ended.

-At 12:57 a.m Molly supposedly called 911, it was a 5 second phone call. Dispatch allegedly called her right back with no response. Supposedly, No one was ever dispatched to the area to check out the 911 call. Supposedly, the 911 call came in to Marietta dispatch.

-Supposedly, her phone pinged off the towers between Pike and Long Hollow Rd.

-Supposedly, the Sheriff is related in some way to the alleged driver of the car, which some people feel may have hampered the ability to find out what really happened that night and what happened to both Molly + Colt.

 

[Hatfield]

A few thoughts this morning before trying to finish up that transcript:

Finally found the street address of the Property That Cannot Be Searched. It is the one I thought it was, on Long Hollow Road with a swimming pool in the middle of a circle drive. The area around the house is not fully treed, so I'm wondering exactly how far the property lines extend. Still trying figure out exactly where the car was found.

I want to know more about what was going on before the car chase. Colt had a baby with CN's girlfriend (not the owner of the car). Now, I don't know if this was a current or ex-girlfriend of CN's at the time she became pregnant, but she was allegedly beaten up by CN when she was six months pregnant. This is according to Molly's brother, who further states that she did press charges but nothing was done. I assume that means no arrest and no prosecution. This would indicate some degree of bad blood between these two young men. Why were they in the car together that night? Was Colt a willing passenger?

This car was a 2012 Honda Accord, not some rolling hunk o' junk that only needed a crumpled fender to be considered totalled. I'm wondering if the insurance company has any idea of the controversy surrounding the wreck of this vehicle. Insurance companies will jump at any chance to avoid paying out money. They have their own investigators who will check out a vehicle and the circumstances surrounding a wreck or theft, looking for fraud or any other reason not to pay out if they have reason to be suspicious. There's plenty of reason to be suspicious in this case, IF they know the details of what happened that night.

Very good point. The family of Molly may want to try to pursue that angle if that can be suggested to them. It sounds like the biggest problem they have is getting a proper investigation and getting permission for searches and for the investigation to proceed correctly. This may be a great suggestion for them to pursue.

Also, I too wonder about the beginning of the car chase. I am thinking that instead of a purposeful taunting donut, maybe the driver was just trying to get away quickly, and he did a spinout sort of thing in the process of getting away quickly from a LE cruiser.

For all we know, maybe the LE cruiser turned on his lights or something and made the driver of the car think he was being pulled over, and maybe the driver did not want to be pulled over. That could have been why it looked like the driver did a donut on purpose, when maybe he was beginning his avoidance of a pull over.

As for whether they all 3 were in the vehicle as "friends", I am just guessing that I think they probably all chose to be in the car together. Just a guess, but I think even if there was some bad blood in the past, since it was a small town, they may have been so called "friends or associates" of each other. But once the car was wrecked, I could see where things may have changed quickly. I think its safe to say there was probably some pretty angry people in that car by the time it wrecked.

 

[wfgodot]

True. This is supposed to be a small, tight knit community where everybody knows everybody, so I don't understand one long time family balking at letting a search take place on that land. Land that is the last known whereabouts of those kids!

snip

There can be more fear and loathing in a small, tightly knit community than there is in a larger, loosely laced one, believe me.

Your point is well-taken, of course, and of course I agree that whatever pressure might be applied should be applied in terms of land searches.

 

[StacyMarie83]

'justic for colt!' fb page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/JusticeForColt/

Not nearly as bad as molly's, but still no new info that i can find, a lot easier to read through tho.

 

[OkieGranny]

I used to work for an independent insurance adjuster, and this was over 25 years ago so my memory may be fuzzy on the finer legal points, but here is what would generally happen when the insured was not the driver of a wrecked vehicle:

The insured reports to the insurance company that the vehicle has been wrecked.

The insurance company asks for information about the wreck, i.e. who was driving the vehicle when it was wrecked, and whether this person had the insured's permission to be driving the vehicle at that time. They will also ask the insured if anyone was injured in the wreck.

An adjuster is assigned to assess the damages to the insured vehicle, as well as any property damage or bodily injury claims resulting from the wreck.

The insurance company may choose to take recorded statements from the insured, the driver, and any other party making a claim for damages as a result of the wreck. The adjuster would handle this as well.

The insured would be required to give a recorded statement if asked to do so under the terms of the insurance contract. If she refused, the insurance company would be within its rights to deny her claim.

If the driver of the vehicle was not a party to that insurance contract, he would be under no such requirement, but it would definitely be a red flag if he refused to give a statement.

Any statements given are transcribed (part of my job, so I have a little experience in that area, lol) and forwarded to the insurance company along with an assessment of damages for their review.

A determination is then made by the insurance company of whether or not they will pay out to the insured and any parties claiming property damage or bodily injury, and how much.

There is a practice called subrogation, where the insurance company will go after a third party to recover any damages it had to pay out. If the driver of the vehicle is not a party to the insurance contract, the insurance company will want to know if he has coverage under any other insurance policy. If so, the insurance company may try to recover its costs from that policy. If not, the company may try to recover directly from the driver himself. However, if that person has little or no income or assets, he may be considered recovery-proof. As in, you can't get blood out of a stone.

Anyway, my line of thought here is that the owner of the vehicle is a weak link. The more financial and legal problems she faces over the wreck of her vehicle, the more likely she is to turn against the guy who wrecked the vehicle. The question is, how much loyalty does she have toward this guy? How much fear?

I'm willing to bet there is a file tucked away somewhere in the bowels of that insurance company containing a transcribed statement given by the owner of that car and I would so love to be able to read it. The driver's too, if it exists, but my feeling is that he most likely refused to give one.

 

[McSpy]

I used to work for an independent insurance adjuster, and this was over 25 years ago so my memory may be fuzzy on the finer legal points, but here is what would generally happen when the insured was not the driver of a wrecked vehicle:

The insured reports to the insurance company that the vehicle has been wrecked.

The insurance company asks for information about the wreck, i.e. who was driving the vehicle when it was wrecked, and whether this person had the insured's permission to be driving the vehicle at that time. They will also ask the insured if anyone was injured in the wreck.

An adjuster is assigned to assess the damages to the insured vehicle, as well as any property damage or bodily injury claims resulting from the wreck.

The insurance company may choose to take recorded statements from the insured, the driver, and any other party making a claim for damages as a result of the wreck. The adjuster would handle this as well.

The insured would be required to give a recorded statement if asked to do so under the terms of the insurance contract. If she refused, the insurance company would be within its rights to deny her claim.

If the driver of the vehicle was not a party to that insurance contract, he would be under no such requirement, but it would definitely be a red flag if he refused to give a statement.

Any statements given are transcribed (part of my job, so I have a little experience in that area, lol) and forwarded to the insurance company along with an assessment of damages for their review.

A determination is then made by the insurance company of whether or not they will pay out to the insured and any parties claiming property damage or bodily injury, and how much.

There is a practice called subrogation, where the insurance company will go after a third party to recover any damages it had to pay out. If the driver of the vehicle is not a party to the insurance contract, the insurance company will want to know if he has coverage under any other insurance policy. If so, the insurance company may try to recover its costs from that policy. If not, the company may try to recover directly from the driver himself. However, if that person has little or no income or assets, he may be considered recovery-proof. As in, you can't get blood out of a stone.

Anyway, my line of thought here is that the owner of the vehicle is a weak link. The more financial and legal problems she faces over the wreck of her vehicle, the more likely she is to turn against the guy who wrecked the vehicle. The question is, how much loyalty does she have toward this guy? How much fear?

I'm willing to bet there is a file tucked away somewhere in the bowels of that insurance company containing a transcribed statement given by the owner of that car and I would so love to be able to read it. The driver's too, if it exists, but my feeling is that he most likely refused to give one.

Excellent post! Thanks for all this information. I too want to know the hassle she is going through with this car wreck. Also, I am curious as to what she knows and feels about the situation. In this case, would she generally have to pay a deductible too?

 

[McSpy]

Hmmm don't they need to file an accident report!

Why is it so easy to hide behind our laws?

Food for thought, because insurance companies ask for police reports. I wonder what that report says? One wonders if it includes mention of the missing passengers.

 

[McSpy]

hmmm, so if the girlfriend recanted on the stolen car report by saying she gave CN permission to drive her car, then that should be some proof that he drove the car. No??

 

[OkieGranny]

She's definitely out of pocket for the deductible if the insurance company paid her claim. And in even worse shape if they denied it.

I had a further thought, that if the insurance company ever learned after the fact (after paying her claim) that she had been deceptive in any information she gave them, they can come back against her to recover their money. She could even find herself facing charges if they believe she has committed some sort of fraud.

If I recall correctly, the recorded statement (if one was taken) begins with the insured being asked to affirm that the information she's about to give is true and correct to the best of her knowledge.

What name is listed in the insurance company's records as the driver of the vehicle that night? That is a very good question, I think.

 

[Hatfield]

She's definitely out of pocket for the deductible if the insurance company paid her claim. And in even worse shape if they denied it.

I had a further thought, that if the insurance company ever learned after the fact (after paying her claim) that she had been deceptive in any information she gave them, they can come back against her to recover their money. She could even find herself facing charges if they believe she has committed some sort of fraud.

If I recall correctly, the recorded statement (if one was taken) begins with the insured being asked to affirm that the information she's about to give is true and correct to the best of her knowledge.

What name is listed in the insurance company's records as the driver of the vehicle that night? That is a very good question, I think.

Some excellent points and excellent questions. This insurance angle really would be a great way for Molly's family to pursue. It may provide them a means to get to the truth of what happened.

Its just this sort of thing that could really help Molly's family. They of course would need laywers to help them, but maybe they already have retained some and they could pursue this angle.

Most people who lost a whole car out of the deal would most likely file some sort of claim with insurance. It does make you wonder the kind of information that was listed on that claim, if one exists.

 

[OkieGranny]

I don't think we're allowed to contact the families directly. Or that may be only if we represent ourselves as members of WS, I'm not sure. Would have to check TOS.

There are several members of LE that Molly's family named as ones they feel are more trustworthy. There's an OHP trooper in particular who has been very helpful to them. I have to go do some things right now, but let me give some thought to contacting one of them to see if any of this info might be useful in putting pressure on the owner of the car to spill what she knows.

I wonder what would happen if the families filed claims against the insurance company for the loss of Molly and Colt? I know there's not enough evidence to prove any claims at this point, but it might be enough to get the insurance company to launch a serious investigation of its own. Depending on what they already know, I guess. But if these two kids were injured or killed in their insured vehicle, the insurance company is exposed to liability for that.

 

[windstorm]

Okay, but wait a minute. Speaking of insurance companies, etc. If the owner of the vehicle reported it stolen and then recanted that, what did she do for a vehicle for the 2 weeks it took to find it and turn it into insurance?

That whole thing still doesn't add up to me.