OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[HesterMofet]

My weird theory:

Everything here is only my opinion:

Molly and Colt were in that car and the reason was drugs. I don't know in what capacity, if they were buying or selling or using. The reason the chase was stopped when it went into Love County is because either the other County or the Deputy on patrol or both knew whose car that was and who was in it, as least as far as CN is concerned.

I'm guessing that at least CN was somehow impaired because what kind of idiot does that in front of a cop unless you are 1) high and/or 2) giving a big ole finger to the police because you're just going to scoot right back across that county line where blood is thicker than water.

So, CN "loses" the Deputy and heads down the dirt road. Something happens and he does not negotiate the turn and goes off the road and into the woods. This next part really depends on how totaled the car really was. If the car is truly battered, perhaps everyone is knocked unconscious and CN wakes first, thinking that he has killed them and runs off. Colt calls his friends and tells them where he thinks he is, they come to look and make noise, trying to find him, but as his call later reflects, they were in the wrong place.

While this is going on, CN has gone back to his house and called his 2nd cousin. 2nd cousin tells him he will take care of it. Remember, CN thinks they are dead. There is something in that car that CN does not want found by the police. I think it is something to do with meth and something that might point at other family members being involved in selling/making said methamphetamine. 2nd cousin is not involved in the actual cleanup of the scene, so he has deniability. As does CN, because he has no idea what happened to Molly and Colt, as he thinks they were killed in the car crash.

Well, the guys sent to cleanup the scene find that Colt is not dead, but slowly trying to crawl up the incline to the road. While they are getting Colt, Molly wakes up and sneaks away. It's at this time that she makes the 911 call. Either the noise or the light from the phone freak her out as she is trying to hide, so she shuts the phone down, hence no answer when 911 redialed.

It's dark and I think she either passes out, hides or a combination of both until she realizes that it's getting light. This is when she tries to call her friend for a ride (the calm call). If that did not happen that day, perhaps she was out/hiding until 9:30 when she made the crying call. Also, there was some mention that perhaps it was not a call but a voice mail. If it was a voice mail, maybe it was from earlier and showed up on the receiver's phone at a later time? I've had that happen. I think she continued to try to escape and was found or died of exposure. I think they will be found in the woods by hunters. If one is found alone, then it was just to get rid of them. If they are found together and died of something other than car wreck injuries, it was a message.

 

[windstorm]

My weird theory:

Everything here is only my opinion:

Molly and Colt were in that car and the reason was drugs. I don't know in what capacity, if they were buying or selling or using. The reason the chase was stopped when it went into Love County is because either the other County or the Deputy on patrol or both knew whose car that was and who was in it, as least as far as CN is concerned.

I'm guessing that at least CN was somehow impaired because what kind of idiot does that in front of a cop unless you are 1) high and/or 2) giving a big ole finger to the police because you're just going to scoot right back across that county line where blood is thicker than water.

So, CN "loses" the Deputy and heads down the dirt road. Something happens and he does not negotiate the turn and goes off the road and into the woods. This next part really depends on how totaled the car really was. If the car is truly battered, perhaps everyone is knocked unconscious and CN wakes first, thinking that he has killed them and runs off. Colt calls his friends and tells them where he thinks he is, they come to look and make noise, trying to find him, but as his call later reflects, they were in the wrong place.

While this is going on, CN has gone back to his house and called his 2nd cousin. 2nd cousin tells him he will take care of it. Remember, CN thinks they are dead. There is something in that car that CN does not want found by the police. I think it is something to do with meth and something that might point at other family members being involved in selling/making said methamphetamine. 2nd cousin is not involved in the actual cleanup of the scene, so he has deniability. As does CN, because he has no idea what happened to Molly and Colt, as he thinks they were killed in the car crash.

Well, the guys sent to cleanup the scene find that Colt is not dead, but slowly trying to crawl up the incline to the road. While they are getting Colt, Molly wakes up and sneaks away. It's at this time that she makes the 911 call. Either the noise or the light from the phone freak her out as she is trying to hide, so she shuts the phone down, hence no answer when 911 redialed.

It's dark and I think she either passes out, hides or a combination of both until she realizes that it's getting light. This is when she tries to call her friend for a ride (the calm call). If that did not happen that day, perhaps she was out/hiding until 9:30 when she made the crying call. Also, there was some mention that perhaps it was not a call but a voice mail. If it was a voice mail, maybe it was from earlier and showed up on the receiver's phone at a later time? I've had that happen. I think she continued to try to escape and was found or died of exposure. I think they will be found in the woods by hunters. If one is found alone, then it was just to get rid of them. If they are found together and died of something other than car wreck injuries, it was a message.

Good theory! I keep changing my mind on what happened, but I think that's because I always hope for the best and that is that they are just off hiding for some reason. Maybe they hid at first until they could figure out what to do, but it went on too long and now they are scared of what will happen if they go home.

However, in the back of my mind, I realize that most signs point to them having died on that land somewhere....and there's the whole fire thing.

 

[OkieGranny]

Here is another thought. What if Molly had something illegal in her purse, which was found in the wreck? One side of me thinks she didn't, but what if she did? This could be a reason they went into hiding. A long shot, but a viable reason to flee and hide out.

I'm trying to think of a reason they would hide. Otherwise, I don't think they made it far from the creek bed. Although, maybe they think they were in worse trouble than they actually were . .

Just some thoughts . .

Mmm, I don't know if I can see anything in the purse theory. Besides the fact a woman of any age will usually keep hold of her purse if at all feasible, would she want to leave evidence of her presence in a car that had just been involved in a police chase? If there was something illegal in it, it could have been hidden just about anywhere in those woods for possible retrieval later.

It surprised me when Colt's sister said Molly's purse and ID were found in the car, and that's what made me wonder if they or she had ever gone back to the car after leaving it, maybe as shelter from the elements until daylight.

It does seem odd to me that she would leave her purse behind if she was calling for a ride out of the area. I don't know what to make of that.

 

[OkieGranny]

I think the family didn't understand police procedures. Most cops anywhere would keep people away from the possible crime scene until it is processed. They don't want to see any possible criminal evidence compromised.

Also, a "totaled" vehicle is different in the eyes of insurance companies compared to the average person or cop. It is all about the costs of fixing it as far as insurance companys' go. The vehicle may not looked wrecked, but the damage to fix it could have been significant as far as cost.

JMO

There was a point in the radio interview where one of Colt's sisters said "they" said the car was probably still drivable. Hard to tell who "they" would be. How could a car be totaled and still be drivable? If "they" were correct, then I'd expect more body damage than undercarriage. But "they" may not have been known how to assess damage to the undercarriage, so who knows?

Am wondering if an attorney would be able to at least get photos of the car for the families so they could see any damage for themselves and determine which of the different stories they've been told is closest to the truth. Maybe even get a copy of the damage report from the insurance company for them. If their child may have been injured in that wreck, it seems like they should be entitled to some info about it.

 

[OkieGranny]

Found a plat of the area between Pike and Long Hollow. Gives a better idea of all the creeks that run through there.

 

[McSpy]

Mmm, I don't know if I can see anything in the purse theory. Besides the fact a woman of any age will usually keep hold of her purse if at all feasible, would she want to leave evidence of her presence in a car that had just been involved in a police chase? If there was something illegal in it, it could have been hidden just about anywhere in those woods for possible retrieval later.

It surprised me when Colt's sister said Molly's purse and ID were found in the car, and that's what made me wonder if they or she had ever gone back to the car after leaving it, maybe as shelter from the elements until daylight.

It does seem odd to me that she would leave her purse behind if she was calling for a ride out of the area. I don't know what to make of that.

I think she panicked and just ran out of the vehicle. Years ago, I was in a car that caught fire while driving on a freeway (mechanical problem). We were towing a uhaul trailer cross country to California. I noticed the seat was warm. I looked out the rear view window and noticed the fire coming out of the back of the car. It was so bad, I couldn't see the trailer! We were like a comet! When we stopped the flames went straight up into the passenger compartment. We all jumped out in a panic for our lives. The fire engulfed the entire car. I lost all my camera equipment, wallet (hundreds in cash and ID), and shoes. I should have grabbed them, but at the time I was scared for my life. It would have only taken me a few seconds, but not grabbing the stuff was the decision I made. So, I think it was possible Molly reacted the same way, but for different reasons. I do think they were all in a panic. I was a teen at the time too.

Just some thoughts . . I'm just trying to get inside a head of a teen . .

 

[OkieGranny]

I think she panicked and just ran out of the vehicle. Years ago, I was in a car that caught fire while driving on a freeway (mechanical problem). We were towing a uhaul trailer cross country to California. I noticed the seat was warm. I looked out the rear view window and noticed the fire coming out of the back of the car. It was so bad, I couldn't see the trailer! We were like a comet! When we stopped the flames went straight up into the passenger compartment. We all jumped out in a panic for our lives. The fire engulfed the entire car. I lost all my camera equipment, wallet (hundreds in cash and ID), and shoes. I should have grabbed them, but at the time I was scared for my life. It would have only taken me a few seconds, but not grabbing the stuff was the decision I made. So, I think it was possible Molly reacted the same way, but for different reasons. I do think they were all in a panic. I was a teen at the time too.

Just some thoughts . . I'm just trying to get inside a head of a teen . .

Yeah, I can see that, too. They may have fled the car in a panic and never went back to it. The only thing is Colt's leg; he couldn't have moved very far or very fast, and Molly was apparently wherever he was at 6 a.m. Wish we knew if the broken ankle happened in the crash or if something else caused it afterward.

 

[McSpy]

My weird theory:

Everything here is only my opinion:

Molly and Colt were in that car and the reason was drugs. I don't know in what capacity, if they were buying or selling or using. The reason the chase was stopped when it went into Love County is because either the other County or the Deputy on patrol or both knew whose car that was and who was in it, as least as far as CN is concerned.

I'm guessing that at least CN was somehow impaired because what kind of idiot does that in front of a cop unless you are 1) high and/or 2) giving a big ole finger to the police because you're just going to scoot right back across that county line where blood is thicker than water.

So, CN "loses" the Deputy and heads down the dirt road. Something happens and he does not negotiate the turn and goes off the road and into the woods. This next part really depends on how totaled the car really was. If the car is truly battered, perhaps everyone is knocked unconscious and CN wakes first, thinking that he has killed them and runs off. Colt calls his friends and tells them where he thinks he is, they come to look and make noise, trying to find him, but as his call later reflects, they were in the wrong place.

While this is going on, CN has gone back to his house and called his 2nd cousin. 2nd cousin tells him he will take care of it. Remember, CN thinks they are dead. There is something in that car that CN does not want found by the police. I think it is something to do with meth and something that might point at other family members being involved in selling/making said methamphetamine. 2nd cousin is not involved in the actual cleanup of the scene, so he has deniability. As does CN, because he has no idea what happened to Molly and Colt, as he thinks they were killed in the car crash.

Well, the guys sent to cleanup the scene find that Colt is not dead, but slowly trying to crawl up the incline to the road. While they are getting Colt, Molly wakes up and sneaks away. It's at this time that she makes the 911 call. Either the noise or the light from the phone freak her out as she is trying to hide, so she shuts the phone down, hence no answer when 911 redialed.

It's dark and I think she either passes out, hides or a combination of both until she realizes that it's getting light. This is when she tries to call her friend for a ride (the calm call). If that did not happen that day, perhaps she was out/hiding until 9:30 when she made the crying call. Also, there was some mention that perhaps it was not a call but a voice mail. If it was a voice mail, maybe it was from earlier and showed up on the receiver's phone at a later time? I've had that happen. I think she continued to try to escape and was found or died of exposure. I think they will be found in the woods by hunters. If one is found alone, then it was just to get rid of them. If they are found together and died of something other than car wreck injuries, it was a message.

Sounds good, but I think Colt broke his ankle while running from the accident scene. I do believe he got away from the car. He managed to make a few calls too. Molly supposedly made 33 texts during the night. IMO, I think they all scattered after the car came to a rest. CN knew where he was, but Molly and Colt did not. I think it is possible CN does not know where they fled. He was looking after his own hide. Yet, he could have heard from them or he fled with them and then left them. I don't think the car was a total wreck where people would be unconscious. I do agree that there may have been meth in the car though.

JMO

 

[McSpy]

Yeah, I can see that, too. They may have fled the car in a panic and never went back to it. The only thing is Colt's leg; he couldn't have moved very far or very fast, and Molly was apparently wherever he was at 6 a.m. Wish we knew if the broken ankle happened in the crash or if something else caused it afterward.

I have a feeling he broke it running in the dark over that rough terrain, but I could be wrong. The coughing up blood could have been from the car accident. I think all of them were full of adrenaline after the crash. This is just my opinion though.

 

[OkieGranny]

Oh, yeah, pretty sure their pulses were pounding all the way from the start of the chase in Wilson.

Am still studying maps. Cannot find anything that tells me where the northern and eastern boundaries of the ranch are, but have picked up hints that it stretches pretty far northward along Pike, and not all the way across to Long Hollow but a good distance in that direction. Halfway maybe, or maybe a little farther.

The area between its northeastern boundary and the property that hasn't been searched seems like the most likely place for the wreck. Lots of little dirt roads criss-crossing through that part without any gates that I can see, unlike the road that cuts across the ranch. Seems like the gates on the front and back sides of the ranch would be kept locked to keep unauthorized hunters from driving right on in, so it's not as likely that the wreck was on that road.

Also saw a comment by Molly's brother that the car was found in a pasture, so I'm looking at any road leading to a clearing that might be called a pasture.

 

[Hatfield]

Im real curious how CN made it home. Maybe it was close enough for him to walk the distance. I hope by now the investigators were able to question him as to where the 2 people were when he left them.

Something still does not make sense about him making it home and those 2 are not home after a car wreck. One would think at a minimum that once he made it home that he would at least go back and try to help them or send one of his friends to help find them.

I suppose one theory is that he did eventually go back and maybe helped them get out of town.

Of course, that is assuming they were all still "friends" at that point. If everyone was mad at everyone after the wreck, then there is no telling if he even wanted to help them after the wreck.

The whole thing is such a mystery. It is really incredible.

Most of the possible scenerios are really dependent on how hurt the 2 were. We know from one of the phone calls that Colt was badly injured, so that limits mobility for him. And if Molly stayed with him for awhile, then really her mobility was limited too at least at first.

Depending on if she was injured too would determine how much progress she could make on her own if she finally left Colt to try to find help. Or if she got sick on creek water or something like we previously discussed.

I keep going back to that apparantly they have not contacted anyone since those early days, so that is really troublesome. I think searching for more evidence or clues is about the best thing that can be done. Unless the 3rd person can finally be interviewed properly by investigators and maybe could provide more information. In the meantime, it seems only foot searchers would be the best hope.

The upcoming deer season should get more boots on the ground come Nov 23rd, so that is hopeful at least to maybe find more clues. I am pretty sure the local hunters will be on the lookout for anything since they should know the news in the area. Finding any clothing, or signs would be very helpful.

The other hope is that they did make it out and are in hiding and will finally contact someone to let them know they are ok.

This mystery is incredible.

 

[HesterMofet]

Thanks for the corrections on some facts. I was just throwing a theory out there. No matter what, I have a hard time believing that these kids have been gone nearly four months and no one has called home? Especially not Molly? I don't know what her particular situation was other than she was not staying at home at the time. Was she kicked out? Why did she leave home? I can't imagine being scared and on the run and *not* calling or emailing a parent and not telling them I was alive. Unfortunately, I do not believe the kids are still with us.

I think it's sad that because of who these kids (sorry, they are younger than my step kids, so they are still children to me!) were and what they may have been doing that they might not get justice.

I don't care what these kids were doing, they need to be found!

Corruption + marginalized people = injustice! It's time we stop letting this happen!

 

[Hatfield]

Thanks for the corrections on some facts. I was just throwing a theory out there. No matter what, I have a hard time believing that these kids have been gone nearly four months and no one has called home? Especially not Molly? I don't know what her particular situation was other than she was not staying at home at the time. Was she kicked out? Why did she leave home? I can't imagine being scared and on the run and *not* calling or emailing a parent and not telling them I was alive. Unfortunately, I do not believe the kids are still with us.

I think it's sad that because of who these kids (sorry, they are younger than my step kids, so they are still children to me!) were and what they may have been doing that they might not get justice.

I don't care what these kids were doing, they need to be found!

Corruption + marginalized people = injustice! It's time we stop letting this happen!

JMO
Thats how I feel too. Even if they were up to no good, that doesnt mean LE should not do a proper investigation to try to find them. Or that we should not care about them as humans.

If it turns out they are just in hiding, then they will pay a price for that of course. But if it turns out they were in desparate need of help and died out there, then some people will probably be sorry they did not handle this with the urgency it needed at the time.

Lets find them first, and then let things shake out afterwards as far as anything else.

 

[McSpy]

Im real curious how CN made it home. Maybe it was close enough for him to walk the distance. I hope by now the investigators were able to question him as to where the 2 people were when he left them.

Something still does not make sense about him making it home and those 2 are not home after a car wreck. One would think at a minimum that once he made it home that he would at least go back and try to help them or send one of his friends to help find them.

I suppose one theory is that he did eventually go back and maybe helped them get out of town.

Of course, that is assuming they were all still "friends" at that point. If everyone was mad at everyone after the wreck, then there is no telling if he even wanted to help them after the wreck.

The whole thing is such a mystery. It is really incredible.

Most of the possible scenerios are really dependent on how hurt the 2 were. We know from one of the phone calls that Colt was badly injured, so that limits mobility for him. And if Molly stayed with him for awhile, then really her mobility was limited too at least at first.

Depending on if she was injured too would determine how much progress she could make on her own if she finally left Colt to try to find help. Or if she got sick on creek water or something like we previously discussed.

I keep going back to that apparantly they have not contacted anyone since those early days, so that is really troublesome. I think searching for more evidence or clues is about the best thing that can be done. Unless the 3rd person can finally be interviewed properly by investigators and maybe could provide more information. In the meantime, it seems only foot searchers would be the best hope.

The upcoming deer season should get more boots on the ground come Nov 23rd, so that is hopeful at least to maybe find more clues. I am pretty sure the local hunters will be on the lookout for anything since they should know the news in the area. Finding any clothing, or signs would be very helpful.

The other hope is that they did make it out and are in hiding and will finally contact someone to let them know they are ok.

This mystery is incredible.

I agree. It sure doesn't look good.

The family and/or LE should contact the ranch owners to make sure they know that 2 people were in area (possibly on their land) and are now missing. Clues (personal items) or their bodies could be on the ranch land somewhere. It appears that particular hunting ranch brings in outsiders from all over, who may not have heard of the case. Even if a hunter finds only a cell phone, it may help in figuring out the direction the couple traveled.

 

[Hatfield]

I agree. It sure doesn't look good.

The family and/or LE should contact the ranch owners to make sure they know that 2 people were in area (possibly on their land) and are now missing. Clues (personal items) or their bodies could be on the ranch land somewhere. It appears that particular hunting ranch brings in outsiders from all over, who may not have heard of the case. Even if a hunter finds only a cell phone, it may help in figuring out the direction the couple traveled.

Yes, good points. It would be good to have a flyer handout for any hunters from the organized hunting ranch. To help look out for any possible signs like clothing, cell phone, anything out of the ordinary.

Because you are right that unless they are told to specifically look for things like that, people may just only look for a body and may not think something else is important too. And out of towners like you mentioned may not look at all.

Animals could even scatter pieces of clothing and other items, so finding any strange item may be important to find them if they are out there.

 

[OkieGranny]

Tried a process of elimination to see if that would be more helpful in pinning down the location of the wreck, based on the Millers' descriptions of the day the car was found and physical characteristics of the land itself and the surrounding properties.

Most of the shaded areas are properties that have a clear fenceline with no road passing through, and other properties without a clearly visible fence but inaccessible from Long Hollow without crossing either the creek or another property's fence. The only two places I can see to drive across the creek that runs down the middle are both located on fenced-in private property. Cannot find any other roads that cross it, so that's my western cut-off line. Other shaded properties were eliminated by the Millers' description of their location on the day of the search.

Overview of the entire area to get your bearings. Pike on the left, Long Hollow on the right, Oswalt across the top:

Zooming in on the unshaded area that could not be ruled out, with Long Hollow on the right, the creek on the left, and red lines tracing the dirt roads:

And then zooming in closer on the area I could not reasonably eliminate:

So there. I think it's most likely the wreck happened somewhere in there. And I think Colt and Molly headed west, maybe northwest or southwest, but westward from there. Don't know what the driver did, either ran to his house nearby or stayed with them for some period of time, but I don't think Colt and Molly would have wanted to go back in the direction where LE might be coming.

I don't know how deep or wide the creek is, but they would've had to get across it, through it, or around it for Molly to be on Pike Road at 9:33 a.m. Maybe crossing the creek is where Colt broke his ankle?

 

[OkieGranny]

I agree. It sure doesn't look good.

The family and/or LE should contact the ranch owners to make sure they know that 2 people were in area (possibly on their land) and are now missing. Clues (personal items) or their bodies could be on the ranch land somewhere. It appears that particular hunting ranch brings in outsiders from all over, who may not have heard of the case. Even if a hunter finds only a cell phone, it may help in figuring out the direction the couple traveled.

That is a great idea, and I hadn't even thought about hunters until you mentioned it the other day, so my hat's off to you for thinking ahead.

 

[Hatfield]

Tried a process of elimination to see if that would be more helpful in pinning down the location of the wreck, based on the Millers' descriptions of the day the car was found and physical characteristics of the land itself and the surrounding properties.

Most of the shaded areas are properties that have a clear fenceline with no road passing through, and other properties without a clearly visible fence but inaccessible from Long Hollow without crossing either the creek or another property's fence. The only two places I can see to drive across the creek that runs down the middle are both located on fenced-in private property. Cannot find any other roads that cross it, so that's my western cut-off line. Other shaded properties were eliminated by the Millers' description of their location on the day of the search.

Overview of the entire area to get your bearings. Pike on the left, Long Hollow on the right, Oswalt across the top:

Zooming in on the unshaded area that could not be ruled out, with Long Hollow on the right, the creek on the left, and red lines tracing the dirt roads:

And then zooming in closer on the area I could not reasonably eliminate:

So there. I think it's most likely the wreck happened somewhere in there. And I think Colt and Molly headed west, maybe northwest or southwest, but westward from there. Don't know what the driver did, either ran to his house nearby or stayed with them for some period of time, but I don't think Colt and Molly would have wanted to go back in the direction where LE might be coming.

I don't know how deep or wide the creek is, but they would've had to get across it, through it, or around it for Molly to be on Pike Road at 9:33 a.m. Maybe crossing the creek is where Colt broke his ankle?

Great efforts. Its probably pretty darn close to somewhere along those lines.

I began thinking they most likely would have wrecked around a really sharp bend, but if the roads were really rutted out and generally bad dirt roads, then they could have lost it even in the straighter portions.

They were probably traveling too fast for the road conditions, so unfortunately, just the bendy parts are not the only parts they could have lost control.

 

[Hatfield]

If we look at just the bendy parts, there is one really wicked left turn at the very top just outside of the area you highlighted. It is so severe of a left turn that it actually is more than 90 degrees. That was one spot that if we just go with difficulty in turning, it looks pretty tough. Its hard to tell, but there appears to be a pasture straight across if they couldnt make that left turn and flew across in pasture.

 

[OkieGranny]

If we look at just the bendy parts, there is one really wicked left turn at the very top just outside of the area you highlighted. It is so severe of a left turn that it actually is more than 90 degrees. That was one spot that if we just go with difficulty in turning, it looks pretty tough. Its hard to tell, but there appears to be a pasture straight across if they couldnt make that left turn and flew across in pasture.

That does look like a wicked tight spot. If that's the place and there's no livestock in that pasture, the landowner may not have noticed he had a fence down before they pulled the car out of there.

Hey, does anyone know anything about shock? Could Colt have gone into shock from his injuries? I know nothing about it so, if it happened to someone right in front of me, I wouldn't have any idea what was wrong. Did a little googling and it looks like symptoms include confusion and agitation, and his sister mentioned in the interview that Colt seemed agitated and disoriented when he was on the phone with friends. Maybe only due to being lost in the dark, but could it have been something more?