OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #2 *Arrests*

[nhmemorymaker]

Thanks. Very interesting.

Agreed. No body, no crime. No bodies, less evidence. Many shooters don't have the luxury of such vastness and remoteness in which to "disappear" a victim. And cattle sized incinerators are terrifying news to me.

I hope the women were so non-compliant they shot and hit one of the perps so some of the blood will identify someone . . . I have little to no hope of this, but wouldn't it be grand?

I also wonder if it is just coincidence that JK was the supervisor for the visit and was also said to be the least favorite of TA?

I really do not remember any language that indicated "jillian was the least favored".
She was simply on a list of three after TAs preferred "regular" supervisor.

(by the way...... wish we knew something about / or could hear from her!!!)

Would someone help me out. Where is there language where TA felt Jillian to be "least favored"
tia

 

[nhmemorymaker]

IMHO
I think there is no doubt that VB was the primary target and JK was the collateral damage here.
This murder took place on the home turf of the murderer and was fully pre-meditated and pre-planned in an area that the criminals knew well.

One question I have- was the shooter/ killer related by blood to the “hiring party” or did the “hiring party” employ someone non-related to carry this out?

A second question - did the shooter have kitty litter with him/her and use it to cover blood at the scene or did someone come back to the scene with the kitty litter? Or did VB own a cat and have a bag in her car?

I would guess that the kitty litter wasn’t necessarily part of the original plan but a bag was on hand in the killer’s vehicle or VB’s vehicle and they decided to cover up some blood puddles with it?

Your questions.... my opinions !! ha ha
We have discussed the possibilities of a hit quite a bit. I think this region and rich powerful figures could easily get a hit set up.
We have also discussed the kitty litter quite a bit...and have not yet been able, as yet, to substantiate whether kitty litter was from shooter or LE.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I do wonder if she snapped off a photo and sent it? That would be a miracle and potentially an investigative game changer! Also wonder if the women made it to 4 Corners and snapped an image of nobody there?

VB imo had many years of experience with dealing with WR and TA games and shenanigans and no doubt was used to taking photos or recordings for evidence imo as it could be preserved and presented in her defense.

Moo

I just keep hoping wishing hoping that these statements could be true....

I was hoping early on, that friends of VB would have brought this up somehow...
Even if the fear to speak is so high out there, friends would certainly share this with LE.

We have seen some cases where victims actually helped solved their own demise...
I know we have a long wait on this one...but we shall see.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

NewsNation previously reported that a small amount of blood was found inside the vehicle, but sources now say that there were also separate puddles of blood outside of the vehicle.

Family members, who have been asked to postpone media interviews until the police tell them otherwise, say the two women were involved in their community and their churches.

Blood found near vehicle where Kansas moms were last seen: Sources

Police say Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley of Hugoton, Kansas, were last seen March 30.

www.newsnationnow.com

NewsNation has reported that Butler and Kelley were shot, and blood was found near the car they were last seen in. They said the information comes from sources who told their producers.

Missing Kansas moms were shot, blood found near car: NewsNation

NewsNation, which is owned by KSN’s parent company Nexstar, has reported Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley were shot, and blood was found near the car they were last seen in.

www.ksn.com

Multiple puddles of blood were found near the vehicle in the desolate Oklahoma panhandle

Blood found near vehicle after disappearance of Kansas women

Two missing Kansas women whose car was mysteriously found abandoned on the side of the road in Oklahoma were reportedly shot and puddles of blood discovered outside the car.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[flowershop]

A local mentioned early on that a gun was involved but I never posted that information. I treated it as a rumor since we have no confirmation. But this is why I mentioned the possibility of there being a shell casing in a post earlier this week. A shell casing is identifying evidence since it can be linked to a specific firearm.

I distinctly recall a discussion of gunshot residue being found in the abandoned car. My attempts to find this discussion aren't working.

 

[Gae]

"Multiple puddles of blood" is a heck of a lot of blood.

 

[NDreu]

I really do not remember any language that indicated "jillian was the least favored".
She was simply on a list of three after TAs preferred "regular" supervisor.

(by the way...... wish we knew something about / or could hear from her!!!)

Would someone help me out. Where is there language where TA felt Jillian to be "least favored"
tia

I believe this commentary is contained in sealed documents that was reported on by folks that read the documents before they were sealed. I have given up trying to figure out which documents were available, sealed and then returned to the public. Very confusing. MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I distinctly recall a discussion of gunshot residue being found in the abandoned car. My attempts to find this discussion aren't working.

Was it this at 1:00? Guest Manatee County Deputy Chief Elwood discusses the potential to look for gun residue.

https://fb.watch/rqf6AgdARy

 

[Universecalling]

Made someone mad enough that they were willing to take an innocent bystander out knowing there would be one with VB. I think the question here is who helped ?

I’m very behind in the thread, so apologies if this has already been said.

This is what I don’t get. Someone that is this callus, with zero consciousness (to murder an innocent woman, whom did nothing to you), planned this out, risked everything to get this done.
Why do it this way? It took about 6 hours for “you” to become the prime suspect in the eyes of the public. It is so obvious.
Almost too obvious.

So my point here is, if you have no regard, and you go to lengths of planning to put this in motion… wouldn’t you take the least obvious route to you? Like an “accidental” hit with a car by a random person you hired, while VB is crossing the road? Something making it look like a complete accident and only taking out VB.

None of this makes sense. I’m so puzzled. It’s like the most and the least obvious explanation, simultaneously. The mastermind and dunce, synchronously.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Was it this at 1:00? Guest Manatee County Deputy Chief Elwood discusses the potential to look for gun residue.

https://fb.watch/rqf6AgdARy

Here’s the transcript:

Missing Mom and Preacher's Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found - Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

6:15 PM Saturday: Oklahoma Highway Patrol issues a ‘Missing Endangered’ Alert for Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley on behalf of the Texas County Sheriffs. By Sunday evening, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation announces they are joining the investigation into the women's “suspicious...

omny.fm

 

[CuriousCricket]

I really do not remember any language that indicated "jillian was the least favored".
She was simply on a list of three after TAs preferred "regular" supervisor.

(by the way...... wish we knew something about / or could hear from her!!!)

Would someone help me out. Where is there language where TA felt Jillian to be "least favored"
tia

That my be my fault as I have tried to stay away from anything in the court documents. I read them all. Now, I have a problem remembering what has been allowed back in and what is still out. So, I may have messed up. TAs "preferred regular supervisor" was the only one she considered impartial. The others she considered to be VB's friends and therefore more likely to turn a blind eye or be more lenient. That was where that designation was made.

 

[Megnut]

Human trafficking is out. Traffickers don't leave pools of bloood.

Trespassing retribution is unlikely. Vigilante private border control? What threat could they pose if accidentally crossing onto private property?

What's that leave? Led to slaughter with her own children as lure...

How many layers deep, that I don't know.

But it's awful.

JMO

 

[HouseRules]

I definitely agree with the ambush theory and that VB was actual target and JK was collateral damage, but JK was collateral damage that someone KNEW would be but simply did not care. Someone was angry enough with VB, desperate to get rid of her that they were okay destroying the lives of another family to make that happen. The fact that JK's husband acted so quickly alerting LE and driving there himself may have thwarted plans of perpetrator/perpetrators to go back, remove the vehicle, and get rid of any evidence at the vehicle site. I don't believe they planned to leave the car there to be found. I think there had to have been at least two people involved in the actual commission of these crimes, and probably a few others involved behind the scenes, making it happen, so to speak.

Unfortunately, I think whatever happened to these women, was fast, decisive, and permanent.

All my personal opinion/theories based on what is known to us at this time.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I believe this commentary is contained in sealed documents that was reported on by folks that read the documents before they were sealed. I have given up trying to figure out which documents were available, sealed and then returned to the public. Very confusing. MOO

All I recall was the list on those now sealed docs. Though more about CB.

 

[Person3]

I’m very behind in the thread, so apologies if this has already been said.

This is what I don’t get. Someone that is this callus, with zero consciousness (to murder an innocent woman, whom did nothing to you), planned this out, risked everything to get this done.
Why do it this way? It took about 6 hours for “you” to become the prime suspect in the eyes of the public. It is so obvious.
Almost too obvious.

So my point here is, if you have no regard, and you go to lengths of planning to put this in motion… wouldn’t you take the least obvious route to you? Like an “accidental” hit with a car by a random person you hired, while VB is crossing the road? Something making it look like a complete accident and only taking out VB.

None of this makes sense. I’m so puzzled. It’s like the most and the least obvious explanation, simultaneously. The mastermind and dunce, synchronously.

Maybe if someone believes they are above the law they don’t think about things that way. Maybe they feel that they are justice and are blinded by whatever sort of self-righteous rage enables a person(s) to commit such heinous acts.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I think the plan was to get Veronica and Jilian out of there by any means necessary as fast as possible. Something happened to them between 9:40 a.m. (left Hugoton at 9 a.m.) and 10:30 a.m. (when police arrived). Jilian's husband arrived at 10:45 a.m. (15 minutes after police). It's a 45 minute drive. That means he knew that something was wrong at 10 a.m.

At normal, legal speeds. If he knew something was wrong, he prob. was not traveling at normal speed.

 

[shefner]

Maybe if someone believes they are above the law they don’t think about things that way. Maybe they feel that they are justice and are blinded by whatever sort of self-righteous rage enables a person(s) to commit such heinous acts.

True...or these perps could be cold and calculating because they aren't emotionally invested at all. They didn't care about VB and JK.

Instead they simply saw themselves as taking care of a problem for someone else who could, in exchange, take care of a different sort of unrelated problem for them. In such cases, money is rarely involved. Such agreements are often made one on one with a handshake and the need on both sides to have their dirty deeds remain secret keeps all parties quiet.

 

[CuriousCricket]

I’m very behind in the thread, so apologies if this has already been said.

This is what I don’t get. Someone that is this callus, with zero consciousness (to murder an innocent woman, whom did nothing to you), planned this out, risked everything to get this done.
Why do it this way? It took about 6 hours for “you” to become the prime suspect in the eyes of the public. It is so obvious.
Almost too obvious.

So my point here is, if you have no regard, and you go to lengths of planning to put this in motion… wouldn’t you take the least obvious route to you? Like an “accidental” hit with a car by a random person you hired, while VB is crossing the road? Something making it look like a complete accident and only taking out VB.

None of this makes sense. I’m so puzzled. It’s like the most and the least obvious explanation, simultaneously. The mastermind and dunce, synchronously.

Good thoughts. To me, taking VB out alone would have made more sense. However, the accident you describe may have been "out" because the perp would also have been injured, perhaps killed.

Perhaps disposing of VB where she lived was not attractive to the planner because of it being in a different legal jurisdiction where said planner has no influence.

If the location mattered, then perhaps they had to wait for VB to come back to Oklahoma.

 

[Sundog]

Regarding the role of the paternal grandmother - in some ways this case reminds me of the murder of Kelsey Berreth by her fiancee Patrick Frazee. Frazee lived with his mother, and he and his mother took care of KB's two-year old child while KB worked. When the relationship wasn't going well, Frazee feared that Kelsey would leave Colorado and take the child back home to where she was from. So he killed Kelsey and involved a former girlfriend in the plot. The child's paternal grandmother (Frazee's mother) tried to get custody of the child, even after Frazee was found guilty of the murder of the child's mother. The Frazee family were determined to keep the child in their custody, although they eventually lost that battle and custody was given to the maternal grandparents.


ETA JMO

 

[Universecalling]

Good thoughts. To me, taking VB out alone would have made more sense. However, the accident you describe may have been "out" because the perp would also have been injured, perhaps killed.

Perhaps disposing of VB where she lived was not attractive to the planner because of it being in a different legal jurisdiction where said planner has no influence.

If the location mattered, then perhaps they had to wait for VB to come back to Oklahoma.

That makes sense, and I think you’re right about location and the scope of influence.

Yet, they took the absolute shortest route to become suspects.
Like they asked themselves “how can we make this as obvious as it can be that we are the perps?” And then said “yep, that’s the one!”