Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[Chimera]

Thank you! First time I'm re-reading that and see that Tifany's phone was searched on 4/1 and it says info was extracted from the device (vs a warrant looking at pings) so that means they got the physical phone from Tifany just two days after the murders which means all four knew they were in deep you-know-what and might explain Tad calling his buddy the judge over on the day he was raided.

CW also claims Grice was at the scene of the murders, specifically at the spot to where the victims were diverted when they were ambushed, not just the February failed attempt. This makes Grice becoming the virtual non-person in this saga, highly suspicious.

It's still not clear if CW contacted LE on her own of if they just tracked her down. It's interesting that she was at her brother's, In Texas, and that may have been because she was scared after finding out what happened. Whatever the case, good girl for giving such a detailed account.

Bbm.
It would appear if the bolded is correct that it can't be over emphasized.

Even IF this is a getaway driver situation -- where the person was not involved in a murder -- they can be charged and convicted !
The fact that LE aren't expecting to make further arrests could mean PG was not at the scene of the killings and the group didn't speak about what their plans were beforehand, in PG's presence.
I find that unlikely, given CW's testimony.
Yet LE have their reasons, and they've stated the investigation is ongoing.
Imo.

So is PG in witness protection ?
Waiting for LE to give an update.
Also not certain there won't be any more arrests down the road.
The murder case in Sugar Land, TX saw the getaway driver, Steven Champagne, who was at the scene but didn't go into the house during the murders, arrested and imprisoned for 15 years.
He was paroled in twelve.

Texas man targeted by a hitman fights for the life of the person who ordered the murder – his son

What begins as a quest to identify the killer in a double homicide reveals a stunning conspiracy and 15 years later, becomes the story of a victim willing to forgive and begging the state to have mercy

www.cbsnews.com

 

[vls12345]

Adams “did provide a recorded statement to law enforcement indicating her responsibility for the death of the deceased.”

Haven't read all the replies yet. But is she trying to get evidence against her tossed? Was she properly Mirandized? Did she do this with her legal counsel present?

I distrust her for obvious reasons.

MOO.

 

[Trino]

Sheriff from OK County speaks:

It's interesting he mentions integration and community support for police more than once. Leaves a bit of questioning. His defense of security (drones, police on roofs) says he knew (maybe heard) about possible problems, and, as part of the community, IMO he knows what's being said.

 

[Chimera]

Haven't read all the replies yet. But is she trying to get evidence against her tossed ? Was she properly Mirandized ? Do she do this with her legal counsel present ?

I distrust her for obvious reasons.

MOO.

Bbm.
Ita.
In a case of this severity and magnitude I'd imagine every procedure was followed ?
Good questions regarding the other aspects.
I see TA as the mastermind of this entire horrific crime.
It's more difficult to see her being able to sway three or more people to do her bidding.
Unless ... she had 'dirt' on the others ?
I.e., something like, "Do this for me, or else !" ?
Omo.

 

[x_files]

What's wrong with being on a motorcycle? It's recreation.

sounds like someone has prejudices against those who like to ride motorcycles. maybe, "nice" women don't in their small town.

 

[x_files]

Judge Forbes says unfair rumors and “crap” about him buying a sawmill with Kansas murdered moms suspect Tad Cullum may have contributed to his firing.

“I asked Tad when they disappeared, I sat him down and said do you have anything to do with this? He said no."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1780954356193329634

He must have been aware that Tad did not like VB, otherwise why even cross your mind? He must have known there was bad blood and a nasty custody battle. Maybe they asked him for favors in their cases?

 

[Chimera]

It's interesting he mentions integration and community support for police more than once. Leaves a bit of questioning. His defense of security (drones, police on roofs) says he knew (maybe heard) about possible problems, and, as part of the community, IMO he knows what's being said.

Bolding mine.
All good points ! ^^^

I've seen this twice now regarding armed LE on the roofs of the jail the four were brought to -- is there an article or video link to support this ?
Not directed at you. Just asking in general. Tia.
Did LE fear a breakout ?
Omo.

 

[ajksmom]

Bolding mine.
All good points ! ^^^

I've seen this twice now regarding armed LE on the roofs of the jail the four were brought to -- is there an article or video link to support this ?
Not directed at you. Just asking in general. Tia.
Did LE fear a breakout ?
Omo.

Sheriff from OK County speaks:

 

[Trino]

Bolding mine.
All good points ! ^^^

I've seen this twice now regarding armed LE on the roofs of the jail the four were brought to -- is there an article or video link to support this ?
Not directed at you. Just asking in general. Tia.
Did LE fear a breakout ?
Omo.

Bolding mine.
All good points ! ^^^

I've seen this twice now regarding armed LE on the roofs of the jail the four were brought to -- is there an article or video link to support this ?
Not directed at you. Just asking in general. Tia.
Did LE fear a breakout ?
Omo.

The sheriff mentions both drones and security on roofs. About 1:10 in video above: Texas County Sheriff Speaks...

 

[Chimera]

@ajksmom and @Trino : I hadn't watched that entire short video. Thanks !!

 

[CuriousCricket]

Why did he even ask or instantly think of TC when the women disappeared? The judge obviously knew or suspected TC and crew were capable of some questionable stuff. So, he went into business with TC, deep down knowing this guy was capable of criminal acts, BUT it was okay because he came up with 3x the cash for the investment? Geez…and this guy was appointed to judge.

It's interesting how people can see and hear the same things and walk away with very different thoughts on it. It appears the judge's appointment was recent (just this year IIRC) according to documents published here at WS.

The new judge said Tad came up to him, already knew the judge was interested in the sawmill, probably also knew he would need to work out the financial end and not only offered to go into business with the judge but put in 3 times the money -- which I think means Tad controls the business, doesn't it? Not the judge.

So Tad knew about the judge's business interests. In a small community, the judge and most everyone else was sure to know Tad was "dating" the considerably older Tifany. They would also know of Tifany's struggles around her son and his children and the long drawn-out custody battle.

When it became known who the missing women were, everyone tuned into the gossip immediately thought of TA and TC and rumors started flying.

So, we have a new judge in a what sounds like a fairly new business venture -- don't you wonder why Tad wanted to be in business with the judge so much? It sounds as though Tad approached the judge AND put in most of the funds. Why would that sawmill be that important to Tad? It prob wasn't. Having the judge as a "friend" and perhaps "beholden" to him -- now that was what was important.

I suspect Tad just "made it happen" for benefits he perceived for himself, not for the judge.

As I see it, the judge is the poster boy for "pride goes before a fall".

 

[Bree1950]

9:42 a.m. Butler and Kelley's cell phones stop transmitting signals.

Three pre-paid cellular phones purchased by Adams were at the location of Butler's car at the time of Butler and Kelley's disappearance.

Missing Kansas women dead: See a timeline of the case, what led investigators to suspects

The OSBI confirmed Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, are dead. Here's a timeline of the case based on available court documents.

www.oklahoman.com

This timeline is a “must” read from the OSBI published by the Oklahoman newspaper! Thanks so much for this link. I now feel this is not the first time for this group! The victims cell phones quit transmitting two minutes after diversion from the main road! TA’s 5 purchased burner phones were at this location at the same time. Then, 3 of the burner phones were tracked to the burial site within an hour of them being diverted. The other two burner phones were tracked back to TA’s house at the same time. I have no comprehension how someone could divert a car, commit this heinous crime, have victims and phones disposed of within one hour and be the first time they have committed a crime like this! <modsnip: no source link for information stated as fact/sleuthing random people>

 

[Cedars]

When someone said "no" or shook a head or something, the sheriff said "We don't either" and explained that was why they tried to prepare for anything that might happen.

My take was they're unsure how big the God's Misfits group is and who or what might come riding in in a massive prison break to rescue them.

I think that's why the four were kept completely separated with one arriving, being in the courtroom for arraignment, then led back out and removed.

Any rescue attempt would not find the four in one place at the same time.

So, LE doesn't know the size nor the commitment nor the derangement of the group and think they may be capable of anything given the vast acreages group members own plus the wealth.

Yes, also maybe some kind of revenge killer, shades of Jack Ruby, who killed Lee Harvie Oswald as he was being brought into jail through a crowd.

There's enough lone wolf attacks at shopping malls, etc - why not at a courthouse where a crowd has gathered?

If something did happen, the blaming of police, 'why didn't they prevent it, they should have known...', they'd never live it down.

They can't win, the public blames them when something goes wrong, they blame them because they 'over-react'.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

I hope flashbacks of the agony they caused these two victims forever haunt these four in their darkest hours

Sounds to me more like she was claiming credit for doing the deed! Just like ISIS & other terrorist groups are known to do sometimes, after they commit some atrocity or another. Sometimes, immediately afterward, we'll see a public announcement by some group that they were the ones who did it. They want it to be known. They're BOASTING. Because they're proud of themselves.
That's how I see it in TA's case... she's not confessing, so much as she is bragging. IMO.

My opinion as it stands right now—I think these four will never feel haunted by the agony of their victims. Instead, IMO they will consider it their finest hour. At least Tifany will.

I also agree that for TA, she is PROUD that she pulled it off. No matter what happens to her, Veronica will never have her children. Therefore TA’s goal was accomplished.

Obviously if she loved her grandchildren like a normal grandma, and genuinely felt that VB and/or Wrangler were unfit parents, she may have fought for custody of the children.

Any notion of that was blasted away when TA and her cronies killed VB and JK. If TA had even a molecule of love for her grandchildren, she would NEVER have murdered their mother.

No matter what TA claims going forward, I think she’s thrilled with herself.

JMO

 

[sony12]

I suspect that TA will just be happy these kids will forever be out of VB's care.

 

[Cedars]

You just can't make this stuff up. A sitting judge???

Don't get too excited, it's a two year municipal appointment to traffic court, requires high school graduation 'or equivalent'. Boise city has slightly over 1,000 residents, the whole county has slightly over 2,000. How many disputed traffic violations are they really likely to have?

Found Deceased - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

In any other case this would be incredibly weird, in this one though, it's par for the course. Imagine being friends with a guy who threatens people with firearms, and oh yeah, helps commit a double murder. I have other thoughts about this, but they're best left unsaid until we know more...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Sundog]

I would think that these <modsnip. - no link> would not be friends with someone who is establishment, especially a judge. So this is odd to me. Was this friendship genuine, or pretense on the part of TA and Cullum in order to use and influence him in any legal wrangling? Or is this judge not exactly clean cut in his occupation ?
But what do I know, maybe they both enjoyed fishing or whatever.

The judge and Cullum may have grown up together, went to school together, been neighbors even before Cullum took up with TA. Who knows, but the judge appears to be genuinely shocked in his interview posted above with NewsNation.

 

[Bree1950]

Does Oklahoma have a sentence of life without possibility of parole?

I feel Cora is angry that they got caught mainly from the OSBI tracking TA’s burner phones to location of the diversion (all 5 phones) and an hour later tracked 3 phones to the burial site on BBC the leased farm land! I feel Cora thought the phones were not traceable. Her daughter’s going to LE sped everything up because the OSBI had information to track the phones TA purchased at Walmart. The tracking of these phones leaves no speculation for a defense.

 

[Bree1950]

Does Oklahoma have a sentence of life without possibility of parole?

I feel Cora is angry that they got caught mainly from the OSBI tracking TA’s burner phones to location of the diversion (all 5 phones) and an hour later tracked 3 phones to the burial site on the leased farm land! I feel Cora thought the phones were not traceable. Her daughter’s going to LE sped everything up because the OSBI had information to track the phones TA purchased at Walmart. The tracking of these phones leaves no speculation for a defense. They should

 

[imstilla.grandma]

"The state of the bodies indicated they died as a result of foul play," the affidavits stated. No further details about the condition of the bodies were provided.
…
"She's just like a sunflower, just like a beautiful sunflower looking in the sun," said Junia Butler, Veronica Butler's younger sister, to CNN affiliate KFDA. "She's amazing, an amazing mom."

Bodies of 2 murdered Kansas moms were buried on land leased by suspect, court documents say

All four suspects are accused of plotting the victims' deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

6abc.com