Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #4 *Arrests*

[NWay]

That would still qualify as assault, wouldn't it?

Yes

 

[Error505]

I think we are seeing TA's defense take shape in that interview. TA certainly has tried to set up a poisonous case against VB.

I assume Stephen Jones will not be TA's defense attorney.

Good luck to TA to use a “contentious custody battle” as justification for premeditated murder & kidnapping of 2 women. I’d sure hate to represent any single one of them.

 

[Herat]

Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley Obituary 2024 - Robson Funeral Home

View Jilian Delores (Dalbey) Kelley's obituary, send flowers, find service dates, and sign the guestbook.

www.robsonfuneralhome.com

Why does the obituary for the late Jilian Kelley refer to the date she left to be with the heavenly father as April 14 ?

 

[Bree1950]

Also, it was sufficiently specific and believable that it was passed on to the immediate family of the victims, one of whom inappropriately leaked on her FB that TA had confessed and both women were dead.
This was the day of the arrests, remains had not yet been found.

JMO

I sure hope so.

LE needs better evidence than Cora's daughter's account of a conversation with her mother.

They need real eyewitness / participant testimony, preferably from more than 1 of them.

With the tracking of the burner phones and the DNA evidence that takes longer for results, I respectfully disagree that they need an eyewitness

 

[whitelilac]

Why does the obituary for the late Jilian Kelley refer to the date she left to be with the heavenly father as April 14 ?

Because that's when her body was found. It's the normal procedure for indicating date of death on the death certificate.

 

[Herat]

Having a burner phone does not mean you committed a murder. It can mean the phone was in one place, but it doesn't mean that the person with the phone directly caused the death(s). All 3 phones could have been in a shopping bag in a vehicle or even were passed around from one defendant to the next.

The DNA evidence may be limited, and it appears there won't be ballistic evidence from the bodies.

 

[Error505]

DDB double post

 

[Herat]

I assume burner phones do not have audio or camera capacity, correct?

 

[NWay]

@otto -- a couple of corrections on the timing here:

First, the Appellate brief by WR was filed May 2021, not August 2022, and this wasn't a sworn custody affidavit but IMO, a hit piece against VB drafted by team WR in an attempt to gain sole custody of the children.
VB was time barred from responding to the brief by WR, and even though the Court made its decision (August 5, 2022) on WR's brief only, the Court was not swayed by the allegations contained in the brief to remove the children from VB or place any restrictions on VB's custody but instead ruled the parents should share custody of the children. Previously, the trial court awarded the Mother sole, legal custody and the Father, standard visitation (May 2019).

We also know that even after the trial Court ruled on standard visitation for the Father, the parents were essentially enjoying shared physical custody of the children every other week from summer 2019 until VR and the children were evicted from property owned by the paternal grandmother-- causing VB to begin moving around.

IMO, I think this period of instability with housing and work by VB was all part of the grand plan by the puppet master (i.e., TA) where WR would have a basis to appeal the trial courts decision-- all in the hope that WR would obtain sole legal custody of the children.

What's also clear is this action to appeal the trial court's decision was contrary to WR's testimony during the 2019 custody trial where WR testified that in the best interest of his children, he would be agreeable to shared custody 50/50.
View attachment 498129
Emergency Orders by WR for physical custody came at the end of 2022 following allegations against VB's minor age family member. However, these court Motions, exchanges, and subsequent intervention Motions by TA can't be discussed since this period remains under seal.

Similar to the acknowledgement by the Appellate Court, I think the parents were young, immature, and struggled but were both finding their way to be fit, loving, and devoted parents to their children.

IMO, I don't think it was was ever WR's idea to remove the children from VB. I also don't think he ever wanted to be a fulltime custodial parent. I think WR was a pawn used by TA. What's his was hers, and this was not negotiable.

<modsnip: sleuthing someone not named a POI>

Appellate Custody Records

Wonderful wrap up! Thank you.

I think 2023 was a pivotal year on the custody front as well given that it seemed TA effectively took control of the children <modsnip: no source links>

2023 also saw WR <no link> gun charge, jail rehab and DV charge against his pregnant wife. He didn’t seem present in the lives of his children with VB but it’s hard to tell exactly why. Was it TA or simple disinterest or both?

MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

Having a burner phone does not mean you committed a murder. It can mean the phone was in one place, but it doesn't mean that the person with the phone directly caused the death(s). All 3 phones could have been in a shopping bag in a vehicle or even were passed around from one defendant to the next.

The DNA evidence may be limited, and it appears there won't be ballistic evidence from the bodies.

Weren't two of the phones found buried with the victims ?
Moi

 

[Tabulator]

A few thoughts/musings on this awfulness:

I realize we are not privy to where the children are now, but I am reassured they are safe and, hopefully, away from all the publicity that is surrounding this horrible crime. We know the Internet is forever and, when they are older, there will be a lot of information to discover - I just hope they can be sheltered from it for as long as possible.

I am in absolute AWE regarding the courage of CW - this teenager came forward and told law enforcement what she knew and what she had been told. Her bravery and what I see as a "moral compass" gives me hope for humanity's future. I cannot say enough how much respect and admiration I am feeling for this young lady. She deserves so much credit!

None of the people involved in this double murder have EVER seen an episode of Dateline or 48 hours! How in the heck could any reasonable person believe he/she would not get caught? Just... Wow.

Others have said it, but I agree - we have a LONG way to go before a trial/resolution to this vile crime. Let the defendants sit in jail for awhile - A lot of things can happen and a lot of information can be released.

Finally, TA is nothing but the worst kind of bully. From the affidavit to the reports of her "admitting her responsibility for the two murders", all I see is a woman who wants to get her way and will use anything or anyone to get it. She had to take the children because she is the ONLY ONE who can care for them. NO ONE else can care and protect them but her. Everyone else is inferior and she is superior. Bully, bully bully! From what I have read (affidavit, press releases), she uses her position to get what she wants, she uses her status in the community to get what she wants and she uses her financial position to influence others and get what she wants. Make no mistake, this woman has ALWAYS been this way and she ALWAYS will be - My opinion, yes, but based on what we know.

Just my views.

 

[Sundog]

I assume Stephen Jones will not be TA's defense attorney.

<Snipped for focus>

I wondered about that, too. I listened carefully to see if he said anything that would preclude his representation of TA. He was careful with his wording, so who knows. I think it is unlikely, but possible.

 

[NWay]

Very interesting interview and imo useful context, including info about Cimarron County and the custody battle over time.

Former TA attorney Jones explains that the report about the allegations against VB relative was done in Kansas and not OK and confirms existence of interim orders that were not seen on the OK website.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

I assume burner phones do not have audio or camera capacity, correct?

Mine have both.

 

[Leilei]

I assume burner phones do not have audio or camera capacity, correct?

They absolutely can and usually do have both. IMO.

 

[ClearAhead]

With the tracking of the burner phones and the DNA evidence that takes longer for results, I respectfully disagree that they need an eyewitness

I agree, very few murder cases are witnessed by an innocent bystander and I don’t think this one was either. Unless 911 is immediately called, eye witness testimony is not as reliable as scientific or technical evidence and can result in wrongful convictions.

As it’s been reported that TA confessed this case may not have to be proven.

 

[NWay]

With the tracking of the burner phones and the DNA evidence that takes longer for results, I respectfully disagree that they need an eyewitness

My suspicion is that the forensic evidence present at the site will provide a wealth of information.

I would argue that in this particular case we didn’t even really need to the bodies for a clean sweep conviction on all charges.

MOO

 

[Artis]

YES... This is exactly what I have been thinking......
She had the dialogues with her mother, but her own recollections mixed with fear and dread could have easily misunderstood so of the "facts"

Everything else she said was proved to be true. I don't think she misunderstood anything.

 

[ClearAhead]

Why is it reported none of the four are arranging their own defence, not just CT?

Bodies of 2 murdered Kansas moms were buried on land leased by suspect, court documents say

All four suspects are accused of plotting the victims' deaths amid a bitter custody battle, according to court documents.

abc7chicago.com

“All four suspects were assigned court-appointed attorneys with the Oklahoma Indigent Defense System, and the agency's policy is not to speak to the press regarding pending cases, according to Charles Laughlin, the agency's executive director.”

 

[Artis]

If I’m PG, and if there’s some reason something was different about my relationship to this case (either because I had a change of heart and went to authorities, or because I was actually involved in another, more important project, or because I really wasn’t involved at all, or honestly who knows what), and I *if* saw what happened on this project that appears to have gone extremely sideways, it’s possible (being a nice guy and a dad and all) that my first thought would have been about the minors at home. Could he have gone back to their house to check on them? True. CW’s testimony doesn’t mention it, but I don’t think these sorts of accounts are always necessarily complete. If a question isn’t asked, it’s quite likely not to be answered. Also, are all the mentions of PG so far solely from CW’s testimony? I think so. So it’s all sort of secondary souce material … or really more like tertiary material, since my recollection is that it’s not just “CW said ….” But mostly rather “CW said that Cora said …”

So maybe it’s true that Cora said all this, and that what she said was true. Or, maybe it’s true that Cora said this, but that she was either lying or incorrect. Maybe Cora never said this at all, or not in exactly this way, and that CW was remembering incorrectly or filling in the blanks. Maybe PG was being set up to be the fall guy, but that didn’t work out properly either? So many possibilities. But there’s definitely no real primary material to go on as far as this aspect of the case goes, as far as I can tell …

Maybe or maybe CW was right about Grice being placed at the scene of the murders, just like she was right about everything else.

Your post just reminded me that Tifany picked up the kiddos from fellow Misfit's home, the Cooks, around noon. That would be right after she murdered two women around 9:45-10:00 AM and disposed of their bodies. I often take longer than that to grocery shop. Mind blowing.