OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[NDreu]

And forensic testing takes time. To me, this is one of the most frustrating parts of criminal investigations. I know advancements have been made since 2010, but back then it took OSBI labs over 100 days to complete most testing, like DNA or firearms. Even now, a sexual assault kit in Oklahoma can take 3-6 months.

I could be wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time) but I think authorities have a good idea what happened. Even so, knowing what happened and being able to prove what happened are two different beasts.

I think this is why I hope FBI is active behind the scenes as given their presence in OK they could make short order of a lot of the testing if OK State lab doesn’t have resources. Also KBI is now involved and has been photographed by media as being local in OK and their labs could add capacity as well and ditto for CO.

Just hope LE is working together and not bickering over jurisdiction.

Moo

 

[marloweclover]

It’s possible but today I changed my mind a bit after seeing what look to be dug up holes around the area where the car was found. Unless another crime scene is found by LE i believe that where the car was found was the crime scene.

Idk if this was done by OSBI for evidence collection or the perps to remove evidence.

Also, what was up with the kitty litter seen around the scene? Was this left by OSBI or perps?

The images I’m referring to were on the news nation video of the vehicle location near where the white cross was posted.

Moo

Oil, coolant, and gas are all typically soaked up by a kitty litter type substance after a crash. If the vehicle was wrecked, or possibly shot at, and a leak occurred, you'd see kitty litter afterward.

 

[NDreu]

Thanks!

The drone footage shows they found the car on a back road -- a gravel road. I live off a gravel road in KS and most folks won't drive it unless they are going somewhere local. Was this the route the women planned to take? Or, was someone following them and they turned off on a gravel road to shake them but it didn't work?

I can't imagine two women turning off a paved road to drive down a remote gravel road unless there's a good reason.

This issue you raise has been source of much discussion. The women had zero reason to be on that gravel road. I think speculation is that the women were either forced there and it was the crime scene or the crime scene is elsewhere and car was dumped where it was found.

Moo

 

[NDreu]

I think you could well be right.

In furtherance of @GRT 's observation that remote gravel roads are used nearly entirely by locals to go to local places, the presence of a dumped car could indicate that somebody knew that road- and is very likely a local.

When under stress, most people instinctually go to a place they are familiar with whether they have good, or bad intentions. In contrast, they are less likely to just start taking random gravel roads.

I hope they are going through the car very carefully for even minute DNA type evidence. Then, off to genetic ancestory companies like "32 and Me" and their competitors?

The thing is though that VB had been a local for a period of time as she and bio dad lived with TA and she grew up in the area and attended the local school we saw on video the other day. She was local and so imo would have known the gravel road and connection road curves well.

I wonder if she was trying to escape from someone by using the gravel road and was either being pursued by one or two vehicles in some kind of chase maneuver and was effectively boxed in by the other driver/drivers?

I couldn’t tell if the land around the area would have needed a truck to go off road as idk if Kia could have gone off road and made it through. But the ground looked dry and not muddy but could have had holes that would make it hard for Kia to go off road.

Just speculation.

Moo

 

[NDreu]

Oil, coolant, and gas are all typically soaked up by a kitty litter type substance after a crash. If the vehicle was wrecked, or possibly shot at, and a leak occurred, you'd see kitty litter afterward.

Yes, totally agree. But still wonder if LE did it or the perps?

 

[nao]

The thing is though that VB had been a local for a period of time as she and bio dad lived with TA and she grew up in the area and attended the local school we saw on video the other day. She was local and so imo would have known the gravel road and connection road curves well.

I wonder if she was trying to escape from someone by using the gravel road and was either being pursued by one or two vehicles in some kind of chase maneuver and was effectively boxed in by the other driver/drivers?

I couldn’t tell if the land around the area would have needed a truck to go off road as idk if Kia could have gone off road and made it through. But the ground looked dry and not muddy but could have had holes that would make it hard for Kia to go off road.

Just speculation.

Moo

Moo...cars can do gravel and pot holes easy, once you know how. If she was local I'm confident she could drive gravel and know the way the roads connect around there. But also easy to lose control on gravel, if going fast.
That's the thing, there had to be one or two vehicles waiting?....moo

 

[NDreu]

Interesting local news report about search activities in the area. I hope we aren’t having jurisdictional issues regarding who is responsible for searching or investigation? Reporter stated that she met an OSBI agent at gas station in her report.

YouTubers help in search for missing Kansas women

The search for Jillian Kelley and Veronica Butler continues, as the two were last heard from on March 30.

www.ksn.com

 

[NDreu]

Moo...cars can do gravel and pot holes easy, once you know how. If she was local I'm confident she could drive gravel and know the way the roads connect around there. But also easy to lose control on gravel, if going fast.
That's the thing, there had to be one or two vehicles waiting?....moo

Yes I agree with you that an ambush seemed likely. Gravel is tricky to drive on and if you tried to do it with speed or out of control imo without experience it is harder than you might think as you point out. But if she grew up there then hopefully she knew the gravel roads well. I just don’t know the Kia and how it would do on gravel? Trucks depending on which ones would be ok most likely but I’ve seen even light trucks spin on gravel. Moo

 

[nao]

Moo...there were two women on a planned timed drive. Probably one was a target. The fact that the bodies were removed extremely quickly, makes it seemed planned.
The police and JK's husband were there very quickly. Wonder if they saw vehicles in the area...moo

 

[Betty P]

Interesting local news report about search activities in the area. I hope we aren’t having jurisdictional issues regarding who is responsible for searching or investigation? Reporter stated that she met an OSBI agent at gas station in her report.

YouTubers help in search for missing Kansas women

The search for Jillian Kelley and Veronica Butler continues, as the two were last heard from on March 30.

www.ksn.com

JMO, it’s a little concerning that OSBI doesn’t have much presence out there. One would expect they would have at least one agent assigned to the area this early in the investigation.

ETA, their Wikipedia page shows there are only 99 OSBI agents to cover the entire state.

Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They probably rely on local LE to help with investigations and do the best they can.
JMO

 

[AugustWest]

It’s possible but today I changed my mind a bit after seeing what look to be dug up holes around the area where the car was found. Unless another crime scene is found by LE I believe that where the car was found was the crime scene.

Idk if this apparent hole digging was done by OSBI for evidence collection or the perps to remove evidence. We just don’t know yet.

Also, what was up with the kitty litter seen around the scene? Was this left by OSBI or perps?

The images I’m referring to were on the news nation video of the vehicle location near where the white cross was posted.

Moo

Kitty litter soaks up liquid substances, like oil or blood. IMO

ETA: I see this has been covered!

 

[GRT]

That was my initial theory, that they made it to the destination and the car was later dumped.

That makes a lot more sense than some sort of roadside ambush, at least in terms of feasibility.

My opinion changed once we heard a bit about the crime scene, but we just don’t know what’s true or not. Broken glass there means it happened there, but a broken window by itself does not.

If the car was dumped there -- it indicates more than one assailant. MOO

That's a definite possibility, but another possibility is that it was a planned attack, and the attacker had been following the car for some time and perhaps became aggressive (cutting them off, bumping them, etc.) Maybe the women tried to get away--turning on the back road without thinking they would be isolating themselves from other traffic.

LE doesn't tell us what the evidence is that there was foul play, but it could have been something like a tire or a window shot out.

All speculation on my part. MOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Moo...totally agree about custody homicides. But it seems so obvious it kinda makes me wonder.

Lets not forget...
Dan Markel, custody homicide, was a hit....but arranged by wealthy Adelson family of his estranged wife.

Jarred Bridgeton, custody homicide, was a hit, but arranged by wealthy Gardner family of his estranged wife. His wife is in jail in Jacksonville,extradited from Oregon, but many of us believe her parents/family are more involved than shows.

Both of these cases took months and months to work out.;

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I have so many questions…Was it common for JK to accompany other women for supervised visits? How did she know VB? How far ahead was this visitation planned? It seems to be an assumption that VB was the target, but maybe she wasn’t. The information released so far could apply to two very different angles…VB as the target, but also JK being the target.

<modsnip: no link to an approved source>
Most people do believe poor Jillian was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
BUT we don't know how much concern her loved ones had about the trip.
Her husband did arrive quickly at the scene.......... one suspicion is that she did get word to him on the phone about something. but this is only one possibility. so imo. moo

 

[Gae]

Lets not forget...
Dan Markel, custody homicide, was a hit....but arranged by wealthy Adelson family of his estranged wife.

Jarred Bridgeton, custody homicide, was a hit, but arranged by wealthy Gardner family of his estranged wife. His wife is in jail in Jacksonville,extradited from Oregon, but many of us believe her parents/family are more involved than shows.

Both of these cases took months and months to work out.;

This is my number one scenario for this case. IMO, it wasn't the bio father making a quick break from rehab to do it. It wasn't a couple of sloppy cousins/uncles running out there to do it - leaving a trail of evidence. IMO, it was most likely a very well planned out hit and it will take a very long time to solve - if ever.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Two true-crime YouTubers, known by their channel “Rock_Chalk_Jayhawks,” recently searched an abandoned home, saying someone sent them a tip about checking a property in that area.

“Where the public and their families and we want answers like yesterday, the next day, and that not the way it works, her and I understand that,” Kari Moody said.

“They could be anywhere, and like, in this property back here, it’s abandoned, but there’s a well back there. It’s not covered. It’s pretty big, so I got down in there and looked. You never know where they could be,” she said.

YouTubers help in search for missing Kansas women

The search for Jillian Kelley and Veronica Butler continues, as the two were last heard from on March 30.

www.ksn.com

ahhhhh. So glad ksn is picking up on them. I do love hearing rock chalk at work. sometimes quirky. But usally quite matter of fact.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

This is my number one scenario for this case. IMO, it wasn't the bio father making a quick break from rehab to do it. It wasn't a couple of sloppy cousins/uncles running out there to do it - leaving a trail of evidence. IMO, it was most likely a very well planned out hit and it will take a very long time to solve - if ever.

yes. A planned hit. Planned in advance with throw away phones. my opinion only.
I truly believe they are capable.
But too smart.
The wild west is still alive and kicking.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Which is why many of the rural communities are dying these days. It's sad to drive through many of them and see all the vacant buildings.

But I have found that you DO have to actually DRIVE through some to get the real sensation.
I know its just normal life to rural folks.
But I just find it so depressing... what makes people just leave their homes buildings forever?

i know...rhetorical question.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Usually searchers have to show probably cause for a warrant, and it sure seems there's no evidence connected to any particular property. I wonder about the property renters and owners if they are comfortable with a search. OK is one of the most conservative states with plenty of government non-trust and staying as far away from intrusions as possible. Renters may say no, meaning LE would need to go through land owners who could very well say okay to a search. Maybe too the disappearance and circumstances have area people a bit frightened to say much.

But you know, plenty of nefarious /sovereign big-time land owners could demand their renters say no.
Could go both ways.

 

[NDreu]

I do wonder if some kind of trailer was used to hold the two women and then just buried in a big pre dug hole? This would be pretty much impossible for LE to ever find. This would also keep dna out of either of the perps or perp vehicle/s too. Moo