One Killer or More?

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Puggle said:
IMO this theory of 2nd serial killer dumping in the area "after" GB4 remains were found is flawed in that 2nd killer was obviously already using this area presumably since 1996 when Fire Island Doe's legs were found.....
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Currents from waterways by Manorville to Fire Island? Just a theory
 
The Nomad said:
Yeah this bit wasn't proven/disproven on the show. I thought R&J said that LE found them wrapped in plastic (did anyone else remember different, i coukd be wrong), yet 'Remi' said Burlap.

I'm of the believe that Remi could be mis-remembering here if i am right, given the MSM coverage of GB4 and time elapsed since the discovery of the Torso to GB4.

R&J could have restated the LE angle after that statement.
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Remi said he spoke to LE after Jessicas torso was found in Manorville in 2003. This is when he learned she was wrapped in burlap. He said LE did not contact him after finding the rest of her remains in 2011.
 
deedee21 said:
Remi said he spoke to LE after Jessicas torso was found in Manorville in 2003. This is when he learned she was wrapped in burlap. He said LE did not contact him after finding the rest of her remains in 2011.
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I get that, what I'm suggesting is, its been so long since that day in 2003, he could have misremembered. I know he said he looked up Burlap too since he said he didn't know what it was.

It's just a thought. He didn't come across as the most reliable of people.
 
I believe Remi about the burlap. It doesn't seem like its worth anything to make it up...and a strange thing to mis-remember.

ETA: He might not be the most reliable person but I think he really cared for Jessica. I think the details of him hearing that news would be heavily etched into his head.
 
deedee21 said:
This is true. Jessica's pimp-boyfriend said she was found in burlap. Is there a reason to not believe him? He said he would not make something like that up. There is nothing to gain by it. LE knows if this is true or not. He went on to say he wants her killer caught.
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Is there a reason not to believe him?? .....

I thought I'd have a better idea after watching the episode (thank you my friend xx) ....but to be honest De.... I really couldn't tell...I watched it over and over. I totally trusted what he said about his belief that she was working Queens Plaza...

But there was something a little off for me when he mentions the Burlap .... can't quite put my finger on it.... there was the detail of the recall "having to look up Burlap"...but .... ?? .... Ill have to watch it again .... but did he start to say something like ..."I wondered why they."...and then he changed his sentence?

A small part of me wonders if she and the other Manorville/OP Girls/guy were victims of a turf/ownership war ...... I linked here somewhere lol...lost amongst another thread...there were alot of killings of gang members in 2003...even members killing their own.

LE would know if this was a lie ...but there would be no consequence anyways ...its just a case of .... hey man..yeah I just got a bit confused.

If it was a deliberate lie .... then the only purpose it would serve is to make sure these murders appear the work of a serial killer rather than a gang enforcer .....???
I don't know....just playing with some thoughts....

Then again .... if he has remembered correctly. ..then that connects hers and GB4 remains ..... and in turn it would be worthy to consider a few of the other remains are also connected ..... the coincidences. ..would be too great to ignore.

Yeah ...lol.. Im stumped.
 
Puggle said:
Yeah no..... the geography between Manorville and Fire Island would rule that out.
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Is that for sure? I can find a sea current map for the sound which shows currents going towards NY rather than out to the ocean at first, i cant find the same for the south side of LI though. Not so far fetched that he drove to the nearest beach and dumped the legs in the sea (running with the theory he hadn't perfected his art at this point).

After they were found, he never dumped anymore parts in the sea, he was more careful.

Just a theory to explore.
 
Body parts of the Manorville and Fire Island victims are found on OP. Appears to be the same killer. That means the kills go back to 1996. 1997 a torso (peaches) is found near Hempstead Park. Where is the rest of her remains? Is it possible the toddlers mother is peaches? The toddlers mother is the only victim that was never entered into NAMUS. Why?? The ME said the Detectives wont sign off on it. Said there was something about her profile they did not want out there. Why? Is it because her DNA matches peaches?
 
Way passed my bedtime here..... jane does legs found on Fire Island matched remains found in 2010 on Jones Beach. So no parts floated in from Manorville that I'm aware of.

I was simply trying to point out that there already existed a match between OP remains to the more immediate area. ..being Fire Island.....to dispell IMO....the idea that the "other" ...not GB4 remains were placed there afterwards as some sick territorial game....as presented by PB on the KS episodes.

His theories sound great...no doubt alot of study behind most of what he contributed......But...you cant ignore facts simply because they don't fit your thoughts...

The legs were found on or just floating off Davis Beach...the ither parts were found in 2010.....to say a territorial killer placed the subsequent remains in 2010 as a challenge. ...or a marker IMO is stretching it a hell of alot.......
 
I would have to know more about the Manorville case to tie that case to the Gilgo cases. I've been following these killings and I suppose there is just so much in print and on the web. I can't blame the cops from sitting on information that they feel would compromise the case whether it is active or not. Although giving out information to the public can turn a case if they want it solved.

At what time were the separated body parts dumped on the OP? Was each set intact or scattered? In the space of years local wildlife would have tended to carry them off. Possums, raccoons, foxes, crows and seagulls would have been all over that.

But the remote OP location is still key and convenient to anyone wanting to get in and out of the area fast, throw a bag out of a car and keep going, this would take seconds. It is plausible to be the work of two killers.
 
The Nomad said:
Is that for sure? I can find a sea current map for the sound which shows currents going towards NY rather than out to the ocean at first, i cant find the same for the south side of LI though. Not so far fetched that he drove to the nearest beach and dumped the legs in the sea (running with the theory he hadn't perfected his art at this point).

After they were found, he never dumped anymore parts in the sea, he was more careful.

Just a theory to explore.
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I agree with puggle. I lived on Long Island and at one time looked to buy a condo in Manorville. I also went to Jones Beach and Robert Moses State Park years ago. There is no waterway leading from Manorville to Gilgo Beach or anywhere on Fire Island that I am aware of. Geography doesn't work. Because of this I believe whomever dumped the remains found in both Manorville and on Fire Island felt comfortable in both areas.
 
relay said:
I agree with puggle. I lived on Long Island and at one time looked to buy a condo in Manorville. I also went to Jones Beach and Robert Moses State Park years ago. There is no waterway leading from Manorville to Gilgo Beach or anywhere on Fire Island that I am aware of. Geography doesn't work. Because of this I believe whomever dumped the remains found in both Manorville and on Fire Island felt comfortable in both areas.
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There are no navigable waterways that connect anything close to Manorville and the ocean. You still have to get past the Great South Bay which is an immense body of water. The Manorville location is an easy drive on the LIE and has a big county park, a great dump site of vast proportions. If you have a body or parts of a body, this is almost an ideal location.

Cutting up a body would make it lighter to transport. It also may indicate how close the killer was to the victim and provide a reason to make the victims hard to ID. It may have been sloppy work by the killer and not necessary. Serial killers learn as they go, on the job training.

I need to wrap my head around a theory that connects that killer(s) to the GB4. At what point were the body parts either dropped off on the OP or moved there close to 2011? To move the body parts the killer would have to be able to locate those parts.
 
mackie22 said:
I surmise that the reason why the toddler was found ten miles from the mother is that a friend of the mother, another sex worker maybe, was babysitting the toddler. Maybe the mother texted something that indicated how long she would be, and therefore location, and the killer needed to mop up. I would suggest the babysitter is buried close to the the toddler and the mother was killed sometime earlier.

I also believe there are two killers working together. Killers do not take risks. To park a car beside the road and drag or carry a body to the beach while your car is unattended is a risk. A patrol car might stop and question why the car is abandoned. More likely one person drove the car while the other disposed of the bodies.
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Not if it is a police car, not risky at all.
 
The summer killings may also represent the fact that a body will decompose much quicker in the sun and heat as opposed to be being preserved during the winters in the ice and snow and noticeable as a body. It may not necessary mean it's some one that is around only during the summer months, again someone that knows what they are doing that is there all year long.
 
-Dirty cop James Burke has sex addiction, violent temper, history of being with prostitutes, leaving his weapon with them. Threatens to kill Loeb with a hot shot. Carrying around young boy DVD’s and sex toys. Leaving his gun belt in his car with a prostitute that was also a convicted drug dealer. Having sex in his Patrol Car with them. Then promoted to SCPD Chief, which T Spota had something to do with.

-Burke’s relationship going back to 1979 with T Spota after he was a witness to the murder of J Pius.

-JMO possibility, people in his circle have the sex workers over FOR BURKE, in return he does them police favors, shaking people down or making things disappears, that is where Spota comes in to play.

- Burke could not go to a motel and check in people would know him, he could not have them over to his house, (neighbors and he would not want any tracking systems going to his home or having anyone know where he lives).

- the girls don’t make it back home just in case Burke is recognized.

-Burke may have beat confessions out of people for Spota to have successful prosecutions.

- Bissett reportedly commits suicide a year to the day the first girl is found in Gilgo Beach. Found in Veterans Park by SCPD patrol car.

- Shannon Gilbert goes out there w driver then makes a 911 they are trying to kill me then found dead in the same area as the other girls.

-the sex workers were left on Gilgo and Oak beach so it could be watched to see f they were ever discovered, therefore SCPD would know and be available to control what was going on in their county.

I think this whole thing is so obvious………it’s pathetic. Hawkshaw sees it too, he has so much experience with this. As so many others do.
 
deedee21 said:
Body parts of the Manorville and Fire Island victims are found on OP. Appears to be the same killer. That means the kills go back to 1996. 1997 a torso (peaches) is found near Hempstead Park. Where is the rest of her remains? Is it possible the toddlers mother is peaches? The toddlers mother is the only victim that was never entered into NAMUS. Why?? The ME said the Detectives wont sign off on it. Said there was something about her profile they did not want out there. Why? Is it because her DNA matches peaches?
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I never thought of that ..... could be!!
 
Actually a police officer told me he spoke to Burke's neighbor and was told Burke often had parties at his home with prostitutes and strippers attending . It was disgraceful for what was going on in this neighborhood.
 
Super Sleuth said:
I don't think they were several years ago. What should be done is setup hidden motion cameras all over the place like hunters do. Or just use Google Earth and look back and see who was parking on Ocean Pkwy at the times the girls were being dumped.
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Bushnell make the best game cams. You can even buy ones that alert your phone when motion is detected. And you can put them in a locked case. They run about 500 dollars and worth every penny.
 
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