OR OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

ADMIN NOTE:

Nobody has been officially named by LE to be POI or suspect in this case.

Websleuths is victim friendly, and under that policy Dave's family members are considered victims. This discussion has been rife with insinuations, direct or veiled / indirect accusations against a member of Dave's family.

This is absolutely not in the spirit of Websleuths and members who continue to do so will face a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

Post according to our rules and you'll be fine.
 

The cartel. A lot of pot is/was moved by the cartels in Jackson County. The year David was murdered, the JCSO sheriff michael winters, reported no plants pulled by the eradication teams.

" The Jackson County Sheriff’s Office said on Tuesday morning, numerous law enforcement agencies gathered at a property in the 10000 block of Old Stage Road in Gold Hill. After serving a search warrant, investigators found bags of cash totaling $643,524, five guns, 10,000 pounds of processed marijuana that was packed and ready for distribution.

58 workers were taken into custody and one arrest was made. The suspect was identified as 33-year-old Hernan Sanchez Villalobos. He was charged with prohibited import or export, unlawful possession, unlawful possession, unlawful manufacture, and conspiracy for unlawful distribution of a marijuana item, as well as criminal possession of a fake ID and money laundering."
 
No, I have not.
C’mon RC, just Google drugs and Jackson County OR, or Josephine County, OR or Douglas County OR, or Rogue Valley, OR.

Just Google drugs and Ashland or Medford or Central Point or Grants Pass, OR.


Southwestern OR (and in particular the Rogue Valley, where DL lived) not only contains a notorious drug corridor, but it is one of the worst areas in the country (perhaps 2nd only to northern CA) for illegal grow ops. From what I’ve read, there are over a thousand illegal grow ops in the mountains throughout the Rogue Valley.

Just Google cartels in Southern OR or Southwestern OR or in the Rogue Valley (or in any of the counties or towns mentioned above). Not only are there Mexican cartels operating in the Valley, but cartels from other parts of the world.

Imo, DL’s murder was local, either drug or drug cartel related (I’m not implying that DL was doing anything illegal, but my guess is he knew just about everything that was going on within say, 40 miles around where he lived, legal and illegal), or HL related. Money, money, money, in both cases. Perhaps millions at stake, to lose, or to gain.

I think it very unlikely that a relative of DL’s was involved. If it was an inheritance dispute, LE would’ve found the trail by now. And just because one relative went around speaking to locals and to TDC’s mom and trying to point fingers, that doesn’t mean they were doing so to somehow distract or misdirect LE investigators. Some people are just irrational. Doesn’t make them murderers.

I don’t think a sex offender married to DL’s ex killed DL, though I suppose a grudge is possible, it just very unlikely imo.

I also don’t think DL and TDC’s murders are related, at all. TDC was likely murdered at least a day before DL (and probably two). So it was pure coincidence that they were found on the same day. The ballistics don’t match. The fire where TDC was found happened 9 days after the fire at DL’s. Even Troy’s mom didn’t think they were related.

LE has now said there is no link between the two cases (I know they originally said there was, but they have since said there is not). I think it is highly likely that another transient murdered Troy. There have been multiple murders along the Bear Creek Greenway (with at least one arrest, I believe).

Lastly, I don’t think DL’s death can be blamed on LE “corruption”. Taking a shotgun approach and blaming everybody and everything only because the case hasn’t been solved yet, doesn’t make any one of those possibilities more probable than when considered alone.

I just think you have to look at the elephants in the room. The biggest elephant in the room, by far, is illegal drug farms throughout the area (operated by cartels, on leased or purchase land, using migrant labor). The illegal drug trade has overtaken the Rogue Valley, and since well before DL’s murder. The second biggest elephant in the room is HL. Imo, relatives and inheritance and SO’s and TDC, while all possible, are much less likely to have been responsible for DL’s murder.

All jmo
 
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500,000 pounds. 500 million dollars. And this was just one trafficking op…


Also, a traffic stop I read about earlier netting over $600,000

All jmo.
 
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The cartel. A lot of pot is/was moved by the cartels in Jackson County. The year David was murdered, the JCSO sheriff michael winters, reported no plants pulled by the eradication teams.

I’m not quite sure how the cartel and a lack of pot eradication in 2008 ties in with Dave’s murder, so perhaps your future posts will make it clear. The article you linked from 2021 does not mention anything about a cartel. I assume Mexican names and the scale of the operation and types of crimes are supposed to make it obvious, which it does to me as a local resident.

I do recall that your earlier post referencing “the cartel of Jackson county” back in January did not mention drugs, but contained an article about the ”RVs” being installed at Hyatt Lake and the death threats Dave had received seemingly because of what he knew.

When questioned about what exactly you meant by “the cartel”…specific County officials? A specific cartel or cartels in general?…there was no answer.

It now appears that you are referring to the Mexican Cartel involved in growing marijuana all over Oregon and bringing drugs up the I-5 corridor. Those of us who live here have long been aware of that cartel, but do not understand how it relates to Hyatt Lake events you referenced in connection with “the cartel of Jackson county” or to Dave’s murder.

While I can’t find any documentation supporting your statement that in 2008, the year Dave was murdered, JCSO Sheriff Mike Winters reported no plants pulled by eradication teams, I did find this 2010 article that may explain why. It refers to a helicopter flyover by then U.S. Rep. from Oregon Greg Walden and various county sheriffs who were begging for eradication funding. I recommend everyone read the whole thing for a clear view of the crime the Mexican Cartel brought to our area and the effort Sheriff Winters expended reeling it in.

From the link:
To a man, the seven sheriffs in the group organized by Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters urged Walden for more funding to beef up their departments, which have been hit hard by budget cuts over the years.

Unlike domestic pot operations of years past, many of the plantations now growing on federal land are operated by Mexican drug-trafficking organizations who are well-financed and well-armed, the sheriffs said.

"The longer it goes on, the harder it will be for us to overcome," Winters told Walden. "They are better funded than us ... There are more of them than there are of us."
<snip>
To consolidate law-enforcement efforts, Winters came up with the SOMMER project and received a $202,000 federal grant to find, investigate, remove and clean up marijuana gardens on federal land this summer. Other counties participating in SOMMER include Josephine, Curry, Coos, Douglas, Klamath and Lake.

The seven counties pulled out more than 55,000 pot plants from federal land in 2009, with nearly 30,000 of them coming from Jackson County.
<snip>
Helicopters enable law enforcement officers to hit more "grows" per week, an activity that averages about three patches a week during this time of year, Winters told the congressman.

"In the old days, when we used to hike in with the steep terrain and everything, our guys were wiped out," he said, adding they were lucky to hit one patch a week.

"And there is so much more dope now," he added. "You aren't dealing with just a few plants now. You are dealing with grows that have 5,000 plants."

In 2009, his department assisted law enforcement officers just across the state line in Siskiyou County, Calif., raiding a patch which had 200,000 plants, Winters said.

"We've picked up our efficiency and are doing the best we can but we don't have enough people," Winters said. "Most of us are half-staffed or losing people."
————————

I realize there was a lot to dislike about Sheriff Winters, but I am not seeing anything nefarious in not pulling any pot plants in 2008, or anything that connects him to Dave’s murder. I have read the archived website numerous times over the years and I only see innuendo about him and numerous others.

JMO
 
C’mon RC, just Google drugs and Jackson County OR, or Josephine County, OR or Douglas County OR, or Rogue Valley, OR.

Just Google drugs and Ashland or Medford or Central Point or Grants Pass, OR.



Southwestern OR (and in particular the Rogue Valley, where DL lived) not only contains a notorious drug corridor, but it is one of the worst areas in the country (perhaps 2nd only to northern CA) for illegal grow ops. From what I’ve read, there are over a thousand illegal grow ops in the mountains throughout the Rogue Valley.

Just Google cartels in Southern OR or Southwestern OR or in the Rogue Valley (or in any of the counties or towns mentioned above). Not only are there Mexican cartels operating in the Valley, but cartels from other parts of the world.

Imo, DL’s murder was local, either drug or drug cartel related (I’m not implying that DL was doing anything illegal, but my guess is he knew just about everything that was going on within say, 40 miles around where he lived, legal and illegal), or HL related. Money, money, money, in both cases. Perhaps millions at stake, to lose, or to gain.

I think it very unlikely that a relative of DL’s was involved. If it was an inheritance dispute, LE would’ve found the trail by now. And just because one relative went around speaking to locals and to TDC’s mom and trying to point fingers, that doesn’t mean they were doing so to somehow distract or misdirect LE investigators. Some people are just irrational. Doesn’t make them murderers.

I don’t think a sex offender married to DL’s ex killed DL, though I suppose a grudge is possible, it just very unlikely imo.

I also don’t think DL and TDC’s murders are related, at all. TDC was likely murdered at least a day before DL (and probably two). So it was pure coincidence that they were found on the same day. The ballistics don’t match. The fire where TDC was found happened 9 days after the fire at DL’s. Even Troy’s mom didn’t think they were related.

LE has now said there is no link between the two cases (I know they originally said there was, but they have since said there is not). I think it is highly likely that another transient murdered Troy. There have been multiple murders along the Bear Creek Greenway (with at least one arrest, I believe).

Lastly, I don’t think DL’s death can be blamed on LE “corruption”. Taking a shotgun approach and blaming everybody and everything only because the case hasn’t been solved yet, doesn’t make any one of those possibilities more probable than when considered alone.

I just think you have to look at the elephants in the room. The biggest elephant in the room, by far, is illegal drug farms throughout the area (operated by cartels, on leased or purchase land, using migrant labor). The illegal drug trade has overtaken the Rogue Valley, and since well before DL’s murder. The second biggest elephant in the room is HL. Imo, relatives and inheritance and SO’s and TDC, while all possible, are much less likely to have been responsible for DL’s murder.

All jmo
BBM

Welcome to the thread @Rush4087! :) Of course @Red Clover knows of drug cartels! She’s lived here all her life and isn’t blind. If you followed the links back to the beginning of the cartel discussion, you will see that she was referring to the vague Jackson County cartel referenced by @Sleuth2010 In connection to the Hyatt Lake RV issue. I’ve laid it all out in my post previous to this one.

I agree with much of your post and appreciate your analysis. I will add that although one can run afoul of growers (cartel or otherwise) by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, generally the danger lies in actually being involved in working on grows, which none of us believe Dave would do. That he would risk his life crossing the growers in some way is hard for me to imagine. Of course, if there was an impact on his water supply as happened to us when we lived in Humboldt County (Emerald Triangle), all bets are off.

This is a very long read, but while we’re on the subject of cartels, I’ll just drop it here to educate all of us about the havoc wreaked by these growers. It deals mostly with the Emerald Triangle, but Jackson county is mentioned.

 
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BBM

Welcome to the thread @Rush4087! :) Of course @Red Clover knows of drug cartels! She’s lived here all her life and isn’t blind. If you followed the links back to the beginning of the cartel discussion, you will see that she was referring to the vague Jackson County cartel referenced by @Sleuth2010 In connection to the Hyatt Lake RV issue. I’ve laid it all out in my post previous to this one.

I agree with much of your post and appreciate your analysis. I will add that although one can run afoul of growers (cartel or otherwise) by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, generally the danger lies in actually being involved in working on grows, which none of us believe Dave would do. That he would risk his life crossing the growers in some way is hard for me to imagine. Of course, if there was an impact on his water supply as happened to us when we lived in Humboldt County (Emerald Triangle), all bets are off.

This is a very long read, but while we’re on the subject of cartels, I’ll just drop it here to educate all of us about the havoc wreaked by these growers. It deals mostly with the Emerald Triangle, but Jackson county is mentioned.

Hi @Lilibet, and thanks for the welcome - although I have been following this case on WS for years and have posted several times in the last year. I very much value your posts.

<modsnip: discussing a former member>

There are many theories re: who murdered DL. All seem to have holes in them or things that cannot be proven. For example, I have yet to see ANY evidence that the DL and TDC cases are related, or that some vague relatives camping location played a part, or why DL’s sister speaking to TDC’s mom or LE matters, or when and why and by whom yellow tape was put up, or that some SO played a role, or why four fires matter when two of them happened on completely different days (and one of those occurred approx 30 miles away from DL’s cabin), or why LE would be corrupt and involved in (or intentionally ignoring) specifically in DL’s case. And that’s just a start.

And the theory that DL’s murder was drug related is not far fetched at all. Imo the most clear and present danger to anyone living in the Rogue Valley over the past two decades was/is probably drugs, drug gangs, and drug cartels. Disputes over land, access, disputes over water, seeing something you’re not supposed to have seen.. Stumbling into a grow op while camping, hunting, or fishing. A grower or trafficker possibly being afraid you might narc on them (for one reason or another). There seem to be many unsolved missing persons cases in the Rogue Valley.

Re: DL’s specific involvement in illegal grow ops, I certainly have no proof, but never said that he was. I have never implied that DL was doing anything illegal, just that he may have been seen as a threat by someone. But read the Garren Rudolf Beller threads and you’ll see that at least one person who knew Garren thought that DL possibly was, or at one time had possibly been, a grower. Just saying you can’t exclude or discount the drug angle by simply saying “it’s hard to imagine” or “I can’t see how”

I have read many of dreamweaver’s excellent posts on WS (including those on the TDC and Beller threads) and am sad that she has passed. She was a valuable and reasoned contributor to WS. I wish she was still around on this thread to help identify those responsible for Dave’s murder and bring them to justice - and also to remind all of us to keep an open mind in our efforts to do the same.

All just my opinion
 
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Hi @Lilibet, and thanks for the welcome - although I have been following this case on WS for years and have posted several times in the last year. I very much value your posts.

<modsnip: discussing a former member>

There are many theories re: who murdered DL. All seem to have holes in them or things that cannot be proven. For example, I have yet to see ANY evidence that the DL and TDC cases are related, or that some vague relatives camping location played a part, or why DL’s sister speaking to TDC’s mom or LE matters, or when and why and by whom yellow tape was put up, or that some SO played a role, or why four fires matter when two of them happened on completely different days (and one of those occurred approx 30 miles away from DL’s cabin), or why LE would be corrupt and involved in (or intentionally ignoring) specifically in DL’s case. And that’s just a start.

And the theory that DL’s murder was drug related is not far fetched at all. Imo the most clear and present danger to anyone living in the Rogue Valley over the past two decades was/is probably drugs, drug gangs, and drug cartels. Disputes over land, access, disputes over water, seeing something you’re not supposed to have seen.. Stumbling into a grow op while camping, hunting, or fishing. A grower or trafficker possibly being afraid you might narc on them (for one reason or another). There seem to be many unsolved missing persons cases in the Rogue Valley.

Re: DL’s specific involvement in illegal grow ops, I certainly have no proof, but never said that he was. I have never implied that DL was doing anything illegal, just that he may have been seen as a threat by someone. But read the Garren Rudolf Beller threads and you’ll see that at least one person who knew Garren thought that DL possibly was, or at one time had possibly been, a grower. Just saying you can’t exclude or discount the drug angle by simply saying “it’s hard to imagine” or “I can’t see how”

I have read many of dreamweaver’s excellent posts on WS (including those on the TDC and Beller threads) and am sad that she has passed. She was a valuable and reasoned contributor to WS. I wish she was still around on this thread to help identify those responsible for Dave’s murder and bring them to justice - and also to remind all of us to keep an open mind in our efforts to do the same.

All just my opinion

If the murder was drugs cartel/s related,
then I'm afraid the perp/s will never be caught.

So much time has passed.
Only immediate action at the time might have proved successful.

Now, it seems like
"looking for the wind blowing in the fields".

JMO
 
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If the murder was drugs cartel/s related,
then I'm afraid the perp/s will never be caught.

So much time has passed.
Only immediate action at the time might have proved successful.

Now, it seems like
"looking for the wind blowing in the fields".

JMO
I sure hope not. Maybe a witness who has just been arrested for a different crime and is possibly facing a long prison sentence will attempt to bargain with investigators/prosecutors
 
These cases will be solved. It happens all the time. Murderers are brought to justice years, even decades later. Cartels are not invincible.
Truth always outs and love always wins. And even science tracks wind.
Jackson County, Oregon just had an arson specialist training ( ends today 1/26/2024 )

An entire class of smart students is learning from older, experienced arson experts. That in itself is a miracle. Welcomed by many!!!
 
Re: DL’s specific involvement in illegal grow ops, I certainly have no proof, but never said that he was. I have never implied that DL was doing anything illegal, just that he may have been seen as a threat by someone. But read the Garren Rudolf Beller threads and you’ll see that at least one person who knew Garren thought that DL possibly was, or at one time had possibly been, a grower. Just saying you can’t exclude or discount the drug angle by simply saying “it’s hard to imagine” or “I can’t see how”

IIRC Dave had a felony conviction years ago for growing and had been incarcerated, which is why I am doubtful he would have risked his freedom again in that way. But stranger things have happened, so I take your point.

Sorry I missed or forgot your earlier posts. :)
 
What are Murder statistics for jilted hook-ups, xgf, xwives & clan critters, homosexual hookups, cartels, pedophiles and truckers? The list goes on...

Dave lived for nearly 30 years in Ashland,Oregon, and was a solid, beloved, community member without trouble ( sans the divorce) until they destroyed Hyatt Lake. His favorite fishing lake. Dave's lake. We called him FISHHOOK.
Then all heck broke loose. They even had a meeting about him at the Lindsay Ranch on 9/3/2008. BMcN and his wife ( JPe' ) were trying to buy it... along-side with Lily Glen Horse Corral Government Lease.

" Millions of Dollars Down the Drain," was the titled article, one of many, the paper wrote about Hyatt.

Sounds like vindictiveness on this thread, seems not everyone wants facts and truth. Just "was told" and "opinion" everyone has one of those.

We have tried repeatedly to share facts and truth. This case should never have gone cold.
We want arrests made. They should have been made, long ago.

IMO MOO LMNOP Justice4DaveLewis
@Sleuth2010, you say you have tried to share facts and truth..

Could you, in very specific terms, with names or links or sources of info or other evidence, please expound upon and clarify, your statement (above):

“They even had a meeting about him at The Lindsay Ranch on 9/3/2008. BMcN and his wife (JPe’) were trying to buy it…along-side with Lily Glen Horse Corral Government Lease.”

Who had a meeting?
A meeting about Dave?
Who called or organized the meeting?
Who attended the meeting?
Was Dave there?
How do you know about this meeting? (or how did you come to learn about this meeting?).
How do you know what the meeting was about?
How do you know who was in attendance?
How do you know what “they” were trying to do?

You suggested that BMcN and his wife were trying to buy “it”
Specifically, what is “it”?
Dave’s property?
Lindsay Ranch?
One or both, plus Lily Glen?
“… along-side with Lily Glen Horse Corral Government Lease”?
Were they trying to buy the Horse Corral?
The government lease? The ranch? Dave’s property?
Why do you think they were trying to do whatever you think they were trying to do?

And what would any of the above have to do with Dave’s murder overnight?

Please be very specific and provide facts or sources (you can use initials) for your information. And please, no speaking about the wind or how love triumphs over all. Nothing abstract. Only facts that can be supported that will help others on WS help solve the case. We all have the same desire - to find out who murdered Dave Lewis and bring them to justice.

Thanks very much in advance.

All jmo
 
@Sleuth2010, you say you have tried to share facts and truth..

Could you, in very specific terms, with names or links or sources of info or other evidence, please expound upon and clarify, your statement (above):

“They even had a meeting about him at The Lindsay Ranch on 9/3/2008. BMcN and his wife (JPe’) were trying to buy it…along-side with Lily Glen Horse Corral Government Lease.”

Who had a meeting?
A meeting about Dave?
Who called or organized the meeting?
Who attended the meeting?
Was Dave there?
How do you know about this meeting? (or how did you come to learn about this meeting?).
How do you know what the meeting was about?
How do you know who was in attendance?
How do you know what “they” were trying to do?

You suggested that BMcN and his wife were trying to buy “it”
Specifically, what is “it”?
Dave’s property?
Lindsay Ranch?
One or both, plus Lily Glen?
“… along-side with Lily Glen Horse Corral Government Lease”?
Were they trying to buy the Horse Corral?
The government lease? The ranch? Dave’s property?
Why do you think they were trying to do whatever you think they were trying to do?

And what would any of the above have to do with Dave’s murder overnight?

Please be very specific and provide facts or sources (you can use initials) for your information. And please, no speaking about the wind or how love triumphs over all. Nothing abstract. Only facts that can be supported that will help others on WS help solve the case. We all have the same desire - to find out who murdered Dave Lewis and bring them to justice.

Thanks very much in advance.

All jmo
BBM

Thank you @Rush4087 for listing so clearly all the questions I had about this statement but hadn‘t gotten around to articulating yet. The answers will be illuminating.
JMO
 
I’m not quite sure how the cartel and a lack of pot eradication in 2008 ties in with Dave’s murder, so perhaps your future posts will make it clear. The article you linked from 2021 does not mention anything about a cartel. I assume Mexican names and the scale of the operation and types of crimes are supposed to make it obvious, which it does to me as a local resident.

I do recall that your earlier post referencing “the cartel of Jackson county” back in January did not mention drugs, but contained an article about the ”RVs” being installed at Hyatt Lake and the death threats Dave had received seemingly because of what he knew.

When questioned about what exactly you meant by “the cartel”…specific County officials? A specific cartel or cartels in general?…there was no answer.

It now appears that you are referring to the Mexican Cartel involved in growing marijuana all over Oregon and bringing drugs up the I-5 corridor. Those of us who live here have long been aware of that cartel, but do not understand how it relates to Hyatt Lake events you referenced in connection with “the cartel of Jackson county” or to Dave’s murder.

While I can’t find any documentation supporting your statement that in 2008, the year Dave was murdered, JCSO Sheriff Mike Winters reported no plants pulled by eradication teams, I did find this 2010 article that may explain why. It refers to a helicopter flyover by then U.S. Rep. from Oregon Greg Walden and various county sheriffs who were begging for eradication funding. I recommend everyone read the whole thing for a clear view of the crime the Mexican Cartel brought to our area and the effort Sheriff Winters expended reeling it in.

From the link:
To a man, the seven sheriffs in the group organized by Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters urged Walden for more funding to beef up their departments, which have been hit hard by budget cuts over the years.

Unlike domestic pot operations of years past, many of the plantations now growing on federal land are operated by Mexican drug-trafficking organizations who are well-financed and well-armed, the sheriffs said.

"The longer it goes on, the harder it will be for us to overcome," Winters told Walden. "They are better funded than us ... There are more of them than there are of us."
<snip>
To consolidate law-enforcement efforts, Winters came up with the SOMMER project and received a $202,000 federal grant to find, investigate, remove and clean up marijuana gardens on federal land this summer. Other counties participating in SOMMER include Josephine, Curry, Coos, Douglas, Klamath and Lake.

The seven counties pulled out more than 55,000 pot plants from federal land in 2009, with nearly 30,000 of them coming from Jackson County.
<snip>
Helicopters enable law enforcement officers to hit more "grows" per week, an activity that averages about three patches a week during this time of year, Winters told the congressman.

"In the old days, when we used to hike in with the steep terrain and everything, our guys were wiped out," he said, adding they were lucky to hit one patch a week.

"And there is so much more dope now," he added. "You aren't dealing with just a few plants now. You are dealing with grows that have 5,000 plants."

In 2009, his department assisted law enforcement officers just across the state line in Siskiyou County, Calif., raiding a patch which had 200,000 plants, Winters said.

"We've picked up our efficiency and are doing the best we can but we don't have enough people," Winters said. "Most of us are half-staffed or losing people."
————————

I realize there was a lot to dislike about Sheriff Winters, but I am not seeing anything nefarious in not pulling any pot plants in 2008, or anything that connects him to Dave’s murder. I have read the archived website numerous times over the years and I only see innuendo about him and numerous others.

JMO

"The article you linked from 2021 does not mention anything about a cartel. I assume Mexican names and the scale of the operation and types of crimes are supposed to make it obvious"

"Mexican names" have nothing to do with our understanding of cartels. Names??

And yes, Dave did serve 2 years in Federal Prison, for growing marijuana on Federal lands, with his xxwife's brother ( brother-in-law) to Dave. He was in over his head and fell-down with a bad crowd. It was a sickening time.
That was decades ago.

We hope no one judges Dave for those actions, the color of his skin, or his name.

Justice4 David Edwin Lewis.

jmo moo
 
"The article you linked from 2021 does not mention anything about a cartel. I assume Mexican names and the scale of the operation and types of crimes are supposed to make it obvious"

"Mexican names" have nothing to do with our understanding of cartels. Names??

And yes, Dave did serve 2 years in Federal Prison, for growing marijuana on Federal lands, with his xxwife's brother ( brother-in-law) to Dave. He was in over his head and fell-down with a bad crowd. It was a sickening time.
That was decades ago.

We hope no one judges Dave for those actions, the color of his skin, or his name.

Justice4 David Edwin Lewis.

jmo moo
‘“Mexican” names have nothing to do with our understanding of cartels. Names?”’

What does that even mean?

Sleuth2010, no offense, but it often sounds as if you are speaking in code: single word sentences (often followed by a question mark), abrupt topic changes, scattered thoughts, innuendo, accusations, and nonsensical phrases like “that needle won’t thread”..

Sometimes shotgun finger pointing at multiple entities, often all at the same time: LE, a SO married to Dave’s ex, a cartel (or maybe not?, or maybe a cartel but not a Mexican (named?) one?), HL, TDC’s mom? gas cans… horse corrals

“dollar on the table crime” (what does that even mean?), a Sheriff who supposedly “effected” the case (why would that be bad? what do you mean?)..

an “employee at the lake” (whose wife apparently hid out during the 4th of July tent gathering)?, who? what? can you explain? what are you saying? ..

meetings at ranches, BMcN trying to buy “it”, or buy a “government lease” or a ranch, or Dave’s property, or a horse corral ? or something…

What do you mean by “inquiring minds want to know”? And by: “who is a registered sex offender?”, and “sounds like vindictiveness on this thread” (by whom?, and “Basics 101”?, and “boots and heels in the ground”? What do “murder statistics for jilted hook ups” have to do with Dave’s murder? Or anything?

And re: a statement you just made in your last post (above), has anybody EVER suggested that Dave is being “judged for the color of his skin, or for his name”? What do you mean judged for his name? Can you please explain?

The statement itself seems to be an attempt to distract attention away from the content (or lack of content) included in your posts. To misdirect

Even after all this time, I have no clue what you think might’ve actually happened to Dave, as, as far as I know, you’ve never said.

I am very sorry for your loss, and don’t want to put pressure on you, but can you please shed any light, on any of above? What are your thoughts? Do you have a theory?

Can you (and are you willing to) answer any of the questions in my last post?

All jmo
 
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"The article you linked from 2021 does not mention anything about a cartel. I assume Mexican names and the scale of the operation and types of crimes are supposed to make it obvious"

"Mexican names" have nothing to do with our understanding of cartels. Names??

And yes, Dave did serve 2 years in Federal Prison, for growing marijuana on Federal lands, with his xxwife's brother ( brother-in-law) to Dave. He was in over his head and fell-down with a bad crowd. It was a sickening time.
That was decades ago.

We hope no one judges Dave for those actions, the color of his skin, or his name.

Justice4 David Edwin Lewis.

jmo moo
BBM

@Sleuth2010 What exactly is “our understanding of cartels”?

Your post was about CARTELS. You criticized Sheriff Winters for not eradicating any POT plants in 2008. Then you post a two year old article about a huge POT bust that doesn’t even mention cartels. All within the same post.

So I think it’s understandable that I was trying to make SOME connection to your cartel comment since you regularly use this term without explaining:
—The Mexican cartels are the main ones in Jackson county.
—The people arrested had Mexican names.
—Therefore, I thought you were talking about Mexican cartels.
This was a logical conclusion and has nothing to do with judging anyone for their name or the color of their skin, which I have never done in my life.

If you would make clear what and/or who you mean when you talk about cartels, instead of making confusingly vague posts, we wouldn’t have to have these conversations. You have yet to make it clear, despite several requests to do so.

Frankly, I do unapologetically judge anyone of any color and with any name who grows cannabis illegally on a large scale, including Dave, if that’s what he did at that time. I’m sorry Dave got caught up in that and suffered the legal consequences. I have no doubt that he redeemed himself many times over by his good works, and certainly didn’t deserve to be executed. But my husband and I and our young daughter were negatively impacted by the outlaw growers in Humboldt County CA during the 1970’s and early ‘80’s. It was ugly and scary. People who weren’t even growers were murdered, even one up the road from us. We were very fortunate to be able to sell our house and land across the road from growers and flee to Jackson County almost 40 years ago. I think we earned the right to judge.
JMO
 
‘“Mexican” names have nothing to do with our understanding of cartels. Names?”’

What does that even mean?

Sleuth2010, no offense, but it often sounds as if you are speaking in code: single word sentences (often followed by a question mark), abrupt topic changes, scattered thoughts, innuendo, accusations, and nonsensical phrases like “that needle won’t thread”..

Sometimes shotgun finger pointing at multiple entities, often all at the same time: LE, a SO married to Dave’s ex, a cartel (or maybe not?, or maybe a cartel but not a Mexican (named?) one?), HL, TDC’s mom? gas cans… horse corals..

“dollar on the table crime” (what does that even mean?), a Sheriff who supposedly “effected” the case (why would that be bad? what do you mean?)..

an “employee at the lake” (whose wife apparently hid out during the 4th of July tent gathering)?, who? what? can you explain? what are you saying? ..

meetings at ranches, BMcN trying to buy “it”, or buy a “government lease” or a ranch, or Dave’s property, or a horse corral ? or something…

What do you mean by “inquiring minds want to know”? And by: “who is a registered sex offender?”, and “sounds like vindictiveness on this thread” (by whom?, and “wise people say money does not bring happiness”, and “Basics 101”?, and “boots and heels in the ground”? What do “murder statistics for jilted hook ups” have to do with Dave’s murder? Or anything?

And re: a statement you just made in your last post (above), has anybody EVER suggested that Dave is being “judged for the color of his skin, or for his name”? What do you mean judged for his name? Can you please explain?

The statement itself seems to be an attempt to distract attention away from the content (or lack of content) included in your posts. To misdirect

Even after all this time, I have no clue what you think might’ve actually happened to Dave, as, as far as I know, you’ve never said.

I am very sorry for your loss, and don’t want to put pressure on you, but can you please shed any light, on any of above? What are your thoughts? Do you have a theory?

Can you (and are you willing to) answer any of the questions in my last post?

All jmo
Ooops!

"Money does not bring happiness"
and
"Wind blowing..." metaphor ...

were mine haha

No need to berate poor Sleuth for them hehehe
I take responsibility ;)
 
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