GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

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From what I understand, the JW's don't believe in education all that much because of end times approaching. This information came to me from an ex-member. He was left with huge issues from growing up in this church, so you have to take what he said with a grain of salt. Still, I've not met any JW's with more than a grade school education, although some do go to college...but very few.
 
wow. I'm new here. Just joined because I was searching online for what high school Whitney graduated from and was linked to here from google. Read through all the discussion here, and still couldn't find it. LOL

I've been moved by this tragedy because Whitney lived just minutes from my house. My oldest son is close to her age and I was wondering if they had gone to school together. There are 2 high schools in the Gresham district. Sam Barlow High School (where my son graduated in 2010) and Gresham High School. There is an alternative HS too, but I somehow doubt she went there. Although with Reynolds HS and Centennial HS right on the border of Gresham, I know some people crossover districts. So if she graduated around here, those seem the 4 likely schools for either 2009 or 2010.

In reference to the surprise over the gun, I'm surprised you all are surprised. It didn't appear that JH had any facial scratches, so I would immediately have doubted strangulation. Surely she would have fought and scratched if he would have tried to strangle her.
 
Ashfox said:
The way I was raised yes that is correct we didnt pursue any secular education after highschool I know of more who have gone now though so maybe thats not as strict?
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It's never been "forbidden" <edit to say: well, in my 30+ years ;P> , and it's definitely typical for a JW *not* to pursue education after high school, as most head into trade schools and trade work/labor work in an effort to keep a simple life (construction/cleaning jobs/hair dressers, lawn jobs, maintenance, etc) . It is not the 'rule' though, just the norm.
 
Hi Knox...why does having a gun make sense to you? Just wondering.
 
pixel.graphics said:
wow. I'm new here. Just joined because I was searching online for what high school Whitney graduated from and was linked to here from google. Read through all the discussion here, and still couldn't find it. LOL

I've been moved by this tragedy because Whitney lived just minutes from my house. My oldest son is close to her age and I was wondering if they had gone to school together. There are 2 high schools in the Gresham district. Sam Barlow High School (where my son graduated in 2010) and Gresham High School. There is an alternative HS too, but I somehow doubt she went there. Although with Reynolds HS and Centennial HS right on the border of Gresham, I know some people crossover districts. So if she graduated around here, those seem the 4 likely schools for either 2009 or 2010.

In reference to the surprise over the gun, I'm surprised you all are surprised. It didn't appear that JH had any facial scratches, so I would immediately have doubted strangulation. Surely she would have fought and scratched if he would have tried to strangle her.
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Welcome! I have been wondering the same thing (I'm a local and grew up near where Whitney lived) but it does't seem that where she went to HS has been made public yet.
 
Suzvw said:
I'm new here, but not to "sleuth" sites.
The questions I have are:

Who tipped off the JW members to search Larch Mountain? They had this information before LE did. Did Holt himself confess to members of his church? Is that why he stopped at the Troutdale Apartments? To call Kingdom Hall, confess to them and tell them where she was, and to have someone come for him after ditching her SUV at Walmart?

And the big question....why?
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to answer your question, I would have to say NO! on them being tipped off before police, or keeping inside information. IF Holt "confessed" or gave any indication to where she was, there is no doubt in my mind that they would have contacted law enforcement right away! They will not protect any person that has committed a crime, especially one as awful as this.
They are a large organized group that is able to work very quickly & would have had resources together immediately with maps and assignments as well as someone heading up the group to make sure no stone was left unturned & every single area covered completely to the best of their abilities. She is obviously very loved .... and this is such a sad ending for all.
 
Ashfox said:
The way I was raised yes that is correct we didnt pursue any secular education after highschool I know of more who have gone now though so maybe thats not as strict?
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, Ashfox. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest around a fair number of Jehovah's Witnesses, but most of the females had left the church before we graduated from high school- and all went on to college.

The only woman I knew who stayed in the church married the brother of one of the disfellowshipped (sp?) women shortly after high school and didn't continue her education.

I was wondering if the sample of people I saw was representative of the organization in general, because it could offer some insight into the dynamics between men and women within the church.
 
CabinFever said:
to answer your question, I would have to say NO! on them being tipped off before police, or keeping inside information. IF Holt "confessed" or gave any indication to where she was, there is no doubt in my mind that they would have contacted law enforcement right away! They will not protect any person that has committed a crime, especially one as awful as this.
They are a large organized group that is able to work very quickly & would have had resources together immediately with maps and assignments as well as someone heading up the group to make sure no stone was left unturned & every single area covered completely to the best of their abilities. She is obviously very loved .... and this is such a sad ending for all.
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BBM, this is true. Also, the LE specifically acknowledged and appreciated the help provided... had they been off on their own doing their 'own' investigation I can't imagine the LE being too pleased about it, particularly in handling of evidence, potential tampering, etc. Anyone familiar with JW's can attest to the fact that it is incredibly organized, EXTREMELY efficient, and most everyone in the congregation keeps in close contact with one another <ie., I have 90% of my local congregation in my cell phone>, so for them to form a large efficient team quickly is not all surprising.
 
laurmac said:
Long time lurker, first time poster here.

For whatever reason, this case has seriously made a mark on me. I've had a hard time going throughout the day without thinking of Whitney or her family.

I was doing some searching, and I do find it strange that we haven't been able to find much information about JDH and his wife/family/past. I was able to find her on Pinterest (most gals have one, couldn't find Whitney on there though), but there's not much to report back on that. (Mods, let me know if it's not allowed to talk about this! I won't link since, IMO, she is a victim as well). I tried searching the user name that AH used on her Pinterest for any other sites that could give more insight on JDH but came up empty.

Hugs to everyone here.
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It's possible she & her family were from Canada?
 
I may have missed reading of this, but what is the speculation of how Jonathan got from Walmart to his apartment (assuming he went home after?). There are several miles (I think 5 miles) between the two locations and he'd have to go uphill from Walmart. Not that he couldn't do it, but it wouldn't be a fun relaxing walk. There are a lot of locations that would have been way more convenient than Walmart to ditch the vehicle. So weird.
 
Suzvw said:
From what I understand, the JW's don't believe in education all that much because of end times approaching. This information came to me from an ex-member. He was left with huge issues from growing up in this church, so you have to take what he said with a grain of salt. Still, I've not met any JW's with more than a grade school education, although some do go to college...but very few.
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I think it varies with the way you were raised in my congregation none of us went to college right after high school although the vast majority attended the area vocational school also I knew of several who were home schooled as well so it just depended. Like the member above said you were encourged to be able to support yourself and family but I was discourged from 4 year degree my parents were okay with community college and I am sure online classes would have been fine
 
Some comments in this article have raised a few questions in my mind (and you have to wade through a lot of extraneous junk--sorry):

~ one commenter mentioned that the police were tipped by Holt's mother and that's why he was interviewed repeatedly; (not verified, though)

~ the idea that Holt, the alleged gunman, never had any priors apart from minor traffic violations, whereas her husband allegedly had some for possession (per today's comments in news article) was mentioned quite vehemently by one commenter--(again, not verified, though it's true that Holt has no priors)

~ the fact that there are three counts of aggravated murder (murder committed in conjunction with another felony)...we're missing some facts

~ curious the distance the JW church is now trying to take concerning this attender of their church ("irregular attender"); JW members are assigned churches geographically, so that any JW at that apartment complex would also go to their church. Someone who was considered "not a regular attender" would be termed "inactive" or "weak" in this faith...and a step away from being considered apostate (if he admitted not believing anymore, or not following the governing body of JW). Things do not necessarily go well for those apostate in this belief system.

~ curious that though only 'acquaintances' the wives were facebook friends, and they were close enough neighbors to water plants, etc., for the Holts when they went on vacation; we only have our longtime closest neighbor friend do watering and mail collection for us when we go on trips--certainly not anyone who we'd categorize as only an 'acquaintance' has access to our house key

~ curious that:

1) she died of "multiple gunshots" rather than the more typical strangulation or stabbing for up-close-and-personal assault (makes me wonder if it were a 'hit' made to look like something else)? Gunshots cause lots of blood evidence, not to mention the possibility of ballistics and fingerprint tracing...it seems like a highly sophisticated weapon for such an otherwise disorganized, sloppy crime

2) a commenter on a news article Saturday or Sunday mentioned her being 'shot and killed' - before cause of death was officially mentioned today. I sure wish I could locate that comment again, but it struck me as odd, as I'd not even heard of a gun mentioned at all prior to today's report.


There is definitely more to this story than meets the eye thus far.
 
StreetcarRider said:
Holt graduated with a 3.35 GPA:

http://portlandtribune.com/pt/9-news/121569-whitney-heichel-died-of-gunshot-wounds

No word on college for either Holt or Heischel, which seems a little odd. Is it typical for Jehovah's Witnesses to not pursue any education after high school?
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IDK about JWs but the neighborhood where he grew up and where they all lived is very blue collar. NOT a "bad neighborhood" just more likely to be home to folks who did vocational training, ie mechanics, or retail type workers or builders than people with master's degrees who work in an office.
 
Melancholy said:
BBM, this is true. Also, the LE specifically acknowledged and appreciated the help provided... had they been off on their own doing their 'own' investigation I can't imagine the LE being too pleased about it, particularly in handling of evidence, potential tampering, etc. Anyone familiar with JW's can attest to the fact that it is incredibly organized, EXTREMELY efficient, and most everyone in the congregation keeps in close contact with one another <ie., I have 90% of my local congregation in my cell phone>, so for them to form a large efficient team quickly is not all surprising.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this above! its very close knit if someone has a cold you know! Also keep in mind that door to door witnessing is organized as well so yes maps and knowing the area very well doesnt surprise me at all.
 
StreetcarRider said:
Thanks for this, Ashfox. I grew up in the Pacific Northwest around a fair number of Jehovah's Witnesses, but most of the females had left the church before we graduated from high school- and all went on to college.

The only woman I knew who stayed in the church married the brother of one of the disfellowshipped (sp?) women shortly after high school and didn't continue her education.

I was wondering if the sample of people I saw was representative of the organization in general, because it could offer some insight into the dynamics between men and women within the church.
Click to expand...

it varies but most of the women i knew did not attend college and alot got married in their early 20's but that was common for everyone in my small town lol lots of girls engaged in high school!
 
pixel.graphics said:
I may have missed reading of this, but what is the speculation of how Jonathan got from Walmart to his apartment (assuming he went home after?). There are several miles (I think 5 miles) between the two locations and he'd have to go uphill from Walmart. Not that he couldn't do it, but it wouldn't be a fun relaxing walk. There are a lot of locations that would have been way more convenient than Walmart to ditch the vehicle. So weird.
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There is a bus stop right there next to the parking lot.

IMO, he left the car at Walmart because it is a huge parking lot and gets lots of traffic. I imagine he thought that it could have been there for some time without anyone noticing due to the traffic. Apparently, from what I can glean online, it is a 24-hour store.

I drove by there last Friday night because I wanted to see what the parking lot looked like and it was stupid-busy. (I mean, really, ... who wants to be at Walmart at 9:00 on Friday night???)

ETA: But what just occurred to me is, jumping off from what you asked, ... WARNING, GRAPHIC:I'm thinking either the shots were not at close range, or he stopped somewhere to clean up, or he was wearing layered clothing, because he would have been bloody.
 
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