GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[rosetattoo]

So, to put it in layman's terms

1a - He killed her during a robbery
1b - It was a hired hit
1e - He killed her while attempting to assault her in some way, possibly sexually.
2d - This one covers a lot but the one that stands out is the possibility of her being pregnant.
2e - She witnessed him committing another crime and he killed her to cover it up.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of these. I don't think it's 1b, IMO.

Actually, I think 1(a) applies if the defendant is a hired hitman; 1(b) applies to the person how hires a hitman; 1(e) says maim or torture; 2(d) is an intentional felony murder, i.e., a planned murder committed in furtherance of another crime, this could probably apply to multiple things here that are felonies--kidnapping, stealing the car, rape; I agree with your characterization of 2(e).

 

[Jadenn]

It said *Clint* helped jump start, not Whitney, unless I heard it wrong.

Oh right ... I think you're right

 

[Melancholy]

~ curious the distance the JW church is now trying to take concerning this attender of their church ("irregular attender"); JW members are assigned churches geographically, so that any JW at that apartment complex would also go to their church.

Being 'assigned' to the congregation geographically isn't surprising, but being assigned and 'regularly attending' are completely independent of one another.

I don't get the feeling the congregation is trying to distance themselves at all, but quite the opposite, acknowledging the surprise and hurt that this transpired with someone they know within their local congregation. I know of several in our local Hall who are irregular, or have even just stopped attending altogether, they are still 'assigned' but they don't go.

~ curious that though only 'acquaintances' the wives were facebook friends, and they were close enough neighbors to water plants, etc., for the Holts when they went on vacation; we only have our longtime closest neighbor friend do watering and mail collection for us when we go on trips--certainly not anyone who we'd categorize as only an 'acquaintance' has access to our house key

I have several neighbors on my FB who I would consider little more than acquaintances, and we too swap watching each other's pets when going away for more than a day. Mail we leave to closer friends to pic up every few days, but having the neighbor across the street let your dog out to pee a few times a day while you are gone overnight is infinitely more convenient, and common practice on my street.

<edit to add> Also, when we were on an extended vacation, in different time zones, it was a convenience to have our neighbor on our FB, as they let us know how the house was, sent me messages if anything seemed out of the ordinary, etc...it was super nice, but still, not like our best buds lol

 

[sweetpeas]

This is the first case I've followed since Caylee Anthony. It hits very close to me because I'm a JW. It has affected us very much since we are a close knit family. I would like to thank you very much for keeping it opened minded and respectful to our beliefs and to us

 

[Melancholy]

This is the first case I've followed since Caylee Anthony. It hits very close to me because I'm a JW. It has affected us very much since we are a close knit family. I would like to thank you very much for keeping it opened minded and respectful to our beliefs and to us

Oh man, I totally agree! ahaha everyone here has been very VERY open minded and respectful. It's one of the reasons I felt comfortable registering and posting!

 

[rosetattoo]

I may have missed reading of this, but what is the speculation of how Jonathan got from Walmart to his apartment (assuming he went home after?). There are several miles (I think 5 miles) between the two locations and he'd have to go uphill from Walmart. Not that he couldn't do it, but it wouldn't be a fun relaxing walk. There are a lot of locations that would have been way more convenient than Walmart to ditch the vehicle. So weird.

Maybe he took the bus?

 

[gngr~snap]

Maybe he took the bus?

I don't see how. He had to have blood on his clothes after shooting her several times and transporting her body...

But then again... he was already recorded on surviellance tape, so why not!

 

[pixel.graphics]

There is a bus stop right there next to the parking lot.

IMO, he left the car at Walmart because it is a huge parking lot and gets lots of traffic. I imagine he thought that it could have been there for some time without anyone noticing due to the traffic. Apparently, from what I can glean online, it is a 24-hour store.

I drove by there last Friday night because I wanted to see what the parking lot looked like and it was stupid-busy. (I mean, really, ... who wants to be at Walmart at 9:00 on Friday night???)

oh definitely there is a bus stop there. I never take TriMet, so it didn't occur to me. LOL

That Walmart is ALWAYS busy. Not that I think like a criminal, but honestly, doesn't everyone know that Walmart has cameras? I'm glad he was stupid though. If you are familiar with the area, the outlet mall would have been a much better location for the vehicle. Not that I'm trying to give people ideas for future crimes. Just wondering why Walmart was picked.

 

[Bravo]

sweetpeas :welcome5:

 

[gngr~snap]

oh definitely there is a bus stop there. I never take TriMet, so it didn't occur to me. LOL

That Walmart is ALWAYS busy. Not that I think like a criminal, but honestly, doesn't everyone know that Walmart has cameras? I'm glad he was stupid though. If you are familiar with the area, the outlet mall would have been a much better location for the vehicle. Not that I'm trying to give people ideas for future crimes. Just wondering why Walmart was picked.

I think Clint was calling him looking for Whitney and he had to ditch the car sooner than planned.
If JH was not at work or at home and his bike was there then where was he?
He had to get back to his apt ASAP.
moo

 

[Bravo]

Maybe Holt has this planned to a degree and had his car sitting at Walmart. Hard to know what goes thru these Criminals minds. Some things we will just never know.

 

[Ashfox]

I really hope they can answer why this happened!! SO many people hurting right now... I may not attend meetings anymore but my whole heart goes out to all the JWs right now because even though this happened in Oregon I know people in the whole organization all over the country are effected by this

 

[Melancholy]

I have several neighbors on my FB who I would consider little more than acquaintances, and we too swap watching each other's pets when going away for more than a day. Mail we leave to closer friends to pic up every few days, but having the neighbor across the street let your dog out to pee a few times a day while you are gone overnight is infinitely more convenient, and common practice on my street.

<edit to add> Also, when we were on an extended vacation, in different time zones, it was a convenience to have our neighbor on our FB, as they let us know how the house was, sent me messages if anything seemed out of the ordinary, etc...it was super nice, but still, not like our best buds lol

Quoting myself because I had another thought

It's possible, MOO, that perhaps between the two couples, even if they weren't close friends, but just acquaintances, there's often an unspoken level of trust when you are related to someone in a common faith, (whatever your religion) and when you look around for neighbors to share menial helps with <watering plants, watching cats>, your first gut may be to ask someone you feel is trustworthy based on that common ground, as opposed to say...the 19 year old frat boy in the apartment downstairs who you know nothing about. Thinking that there was an innocent camaraderie shared between WH, CH and AH, even just as casual acquaintance that got turned into something vile and foul makes my stomach sink

 

[Ashfox]

I think he planned this though... JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

From what I understand, the JW's don't believe in education all that much because of end times approaching. This information came to me from an ex-member. He was left with huge issues from growing up in this church, so you have to take what he said with a grain of salt. Still, I've not met any JW's with more than a grade school education, although some do go to college...but very few.

I work with 4 JW's...all with advanced degrees. JMO

 

[gngr~snap]

On her facebok I have seen pictures of she and Clint at "seminars" or something.
Were these for his work or does JW have things they sponsor for young couples?

Any thoughts?

Because WH was in attendance and they were so dressed up and nice looking
I thought JW?
(not that they didn't always look great)

 

[Ashfox]

I work with 4 JW's...all with advanced degrees. JMO

I dont know them of course I think it just varies on how strong your faith is and also whether you got your degrees prior to becoming a witness or after again for my family it was discouraged but so was participating in afterschool sports proms dances things like that. Just varies on family.

 

[hambirg]

I still think he might have had his motorcycle parked somewhere as a mid-point. That would explain the two small gas purchases so close together.

MOO

 

[Ashfox]

On her facebok I have seen pictures of she and Clint at "seminars" or something.
Were these for his work or does JW have things they sponsor for young couples?

Any thoughts?

Because WH was in attendance and they were so dressed up and nice looking
I thought JW?
(not that they didn't always look great)

it was probably a convention which is where lots of congregations for the region attend a weekend umm like large meeting I dont know the proper term for it LOL basically you have kingdom halls all over so you would have a weekend event in the summer that usually was two or three days and everyone came from kingdom halls in that area to learn

 

[Melancholy]

On her facebok I have seen pictures of she and Clint at "seminars" or something.
Were these for his work or does JW have things they sponsor for young couples?

Any thoughts?

Because WH was in attendance and they were so dressed up and nice looking
I thought JW?
(not that they didn't always look great)

Those pictures (with the lapel badges) are from District Conventions of Jehovah's Witnesses held yearly in the summer, over the course of 3 days. There are smaller assemblies throughout the year also, 2 and 1 day on those.

I have no idea on his work, but any of the pics that they were dressed in a suit/tie/dress could be any service throughout the week (2 times) or one of those occasions.