Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

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Apparently he didn't have to take the stand , but i think he should have too, but the Judge wasn't able to hold that against him just because he didn't make a plea to the Court for forgiveness, plead innocence etc, but of course anyone who's innocent would have used the opportunity with bells on. The get out he had was that Roux had him showing his 'vulnerability' playing the ace card of him wobbling about on his stumps,to gain sympathy. The Judge decided he had shown remorse and had tried to contact the Steenkamps to apologise , even though Nel pointed out that Pistorius only contacted the Steenkamps recently to the Sentencing Arguments

Because it was found by both courts that Pistorius had been dishonest, he wasn't entitled to a finding of remorse.

You'll remember that the SCA held that he never gave an acceptable explanation for firing.

Interestingly, I discovered earlier that he apologised to the Steenkamps in Court because there's caselaw to the effect that an apology should be made in court in order to qualify as remorse.
 
Because it was found by both courts that Pistorius had been dishonest, he wasn't entitled to a finding of remorse.

You'll remember that the SCA held that he never gave an acceptable explanation for firing.

Interestingly, I discovered earlier that he apologised to the Steenkamps in Court because there's caselaw to the effect that an apology should be made in court in order to qualify as remorse.

I know he was found to be a liar (Nel exposed this many times) , but Masipa ignored all that in her sentencing,
and yes, he had a number of versions , and not one plausible
He said something to the Steenkamps at the very start of his testimony when he was on the Stand blubbering in the first trial, but they didn't think he was being sincere, it was all about saving himself, he was sorry for himself. I didn't agree with the fact that Masipa pushed this in giving her sentencing as if he had apologised to the Steenkamps for 'murdering their daughter' he never admitted it at all, he only said in first trial that he was sorry for taking Reeva's life, or words to that effect

and they certainly hadn't accepted it and moved on, which Masipa said they had, it was the final insult to say that about them.
 
Cloen no offence but 1/2 is when he's up for parole. Why are you going with 1/3?

I thought he had to serve half his sentence, but apparently on good behaviour he 'could' apply sooner than having served a third of his sentence,
;There's a lot of legal professionals saying he 'could' apply after 2 years, we'll have to wait and see, because there's so many suprises in this Case

I read tweets by Marius due Toit, and im' not impressed, he's very much in agreement with Sentencing and thought it was correct.
Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit 17h17 hours ago
OP version was always the most plausible, but in my view it remained murder deserving jail time.. Maybe 10 years...#OscarPistorious


He also tweeted
Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit Jul 6
Very lenient sentence but i cannot say its wrong #OscarPistorius


Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit Jul 7
My gut says the NPA may attempt another appeal ... Much tougher this time #OscarPistorius


Perhaps he has this view because he is a Defence Lawyer, showing a bit of support for Roux., because majority of Lawyers i've spoken to think her sentencing was wrong,and that's all i'm reading about is all the mistakes Masipa has made yet again - so i don't know why Appealing would be so difficult -this is a travesty and a dangerous precedent she's set for sentencing of Murder , and NPA needs to Appeal,
 
Makes me wonder if Masipa herself was ever abused by a man, as she seemed so desensitised to what Reeva was going through with that volatile lunatic who ended up murdering her. Anyway, she stuck 2 fingers up at Nel and dared him to appeal. Let's hope he does. He's fought a very long very hard battle to get this far and to see it all fall apart because of a judge who couldn't keep her personal bias out of it would be a real shame. All this long drawn-out battle for a flipping extra year? Could she have slapped Reeva's parents any harder in the face? Plus, if it wasn't for her flawed judgement in the first place (accompanied by a pitifully light sentence) the state probably wouldn't have appealed and the murderer wouldn't have been able to enjoy 8 months living at the manse. Masipa is directly responsible for adding to the Steenkamps distress. There's 'not a shred' of evidence she has any sympathy for them whatsoever, but she has plenty for the murderer?

We don't know if she was abused but I've read that she was in detention with apartheid. She has a history of being an activist. It might come down to the simple fact that she has a grudge against white people: Judge Masipa, known by friends as “Tilly”, felt the full force of oppressive white minority rule. Of course Oscar is white too but then there's that disability component.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/584cabe8-39ac-11e4-83c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4DrxYhNZP

Knowing this, it's very easy for me to see that she balked the authority of the Supreme Crt.

I might be totally off the wall here, but, I perceive that she's a very bitter woman, holding a lot of resentment.
 
I know he was with bells on , but Masipa ignored all that in her sentencing,
and yes, he had a number of versions , and not one plausible
He said something to the Steenkamps at the very start of his testimony when he was on the Stand blubbering in the first trial, but they didn't think he was being sincere, it was all about saving himself, he was sorry for himself. I didn't agree with the fact that Masipa pushed this in giving her sentencing as if he had apologised to the Steenkamps for 'murdering their daughter' he never admitted it at all, he only said in first trial that he was sorry for taking Reeva's life, or words to that effect

and they certainly hadn't accepted it and moved on, which Masipa said they had, it was the final insult to say that about them.

BIB: The things Masipa said when sentencing were derogatory IMO and I feel the Steenkamps will find it so much harder, if not impossible, to move on now.
 
We don't know if she was abused but I've read that she was in detention with apartheid. She has a history of being an activist. It might come down to the simple fact that she has a grudge against white people: Judge Masipa, known by friends as “Tilly”, felt the full force of oppressive white minority rule. Of course Oscar is white too but then there's that disability component.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/584cabe8-39ac-11e4-83c4-00144feabdc0.html#axzz4DrxYhNZP

Knowing this, it's very easy for me to see that she balked the authority of the Supreme Crt.

I might be totally off the wall here, but, I perceive that she's a very bitter woman, holding a lot of resentment.

she was sticking her two fingers up at having her conviction overturned -
letting the two Lawyers know she was ready to hear any Appeal immediately after delivering her sentence, but the NPA had to approve it and Nel consult them,so the Prosecution weren't going to be making any decisions on whether they were Appealing on that same day, and she would have known that. I saw that gesture from her as more of her being arrogant and her ego was bruised.
 
Thank goodness for Toby S, whoever he is, he talks sense, and that Marius du Troit is effectively supporting the Judge's decision , even though he says her sentence was lenient.
VT of programme discussing the Sentencing called The Newsmakers

[video=youtube;sErut3UQHUA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sErut3UQHUA&list=PLUW304lJeu3XZ4t7UuhXcjvS2_lvrw-zh&sns=tw[/video]
 
I thought he had to serve half his sentence, but apparently on good behaviour he 'could' apply sooner than having served a third of his sentence,
;There's a lot of legal professionals saying he 'could' apply after 2 years, we'll have to wait and see, because there's so many suprises in this Case

I read tweets by Marius due Toit, and im' not impressed, he's very much in agreement with Sentencing and thought it was correct.
Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit 17h17 hours ago
OP version was always the most plausible, but in my view it remained murder deserving jail time.. Maybe 10 years...#OscarPistorious


He also tweeted
Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit Jul 6
Very lenient sentence but i cannot say its wrong #OscarPistorius


Marius du Toit ‏@mariusdutoit Jul 7
My gut says the NPA may attempt another appeal ... Much tougher this time #OscarPistorius


Perhaps he has this view because he is a Defence Lawyer, showing a bit of support for Roux., because majority of Lawyers i've spoken to think her sentencing was wrong,and that's all i'm reading about is all the mistakes Masipa has made yet again - so i don't know why Appealing would be so difficult -this is a travesty and a dangerous precedent she's set for sentencing of Murder , and NPA needs to Appeal,

If that is your take then, whatever.
 
BIB: The things Masipa said when sentencing were derogatory IMO and I feel the Steenkamps will find it so much harder, if not impossible, to move on now.

I believe so too.
 
If that is your take then, whatever.

Marius du Toi said it was never about Man against woman and abusive relationship (or words to that effect).
He says he's always thought that Pistorius was of the belief that there was an Intruder , the fact that he killed Reeva and she was his girlfriend was just how it transpired, and he'd never thought there was any argument . He's supporting the Defence's Case and Masipa's Judgement,so supporting Pistorius' version.
 
His status as a first-time offender

First-time offense is subject to at least fifteen years’ imprisonment, second conviction results in at least twenty years’ imprisonment, and third or subsequent conviction entails at least twenty-five years’ imprisonment.
Sentencing Guidelines: South Africa 81


She disagreed with the notion that Pistorius had failed to show remorse by noting that he had tried to apologize to the Steenkamp family.

“Never ruin an apology with an excuse.”
Benjamin Franklin


"It is my view that it must be one of the most difficult things for any accused to have to face the victims of his crime and to apologize"

Really?

'vulnerable without his protheses'

Ownership of a firearm is conditional on a competency test and he was deemed competent with or without his protheses.

'taken immediate steps to try to save Steenkamp's life after she was shot'

Upon seeing Reeva after breaking through the door: "at that point I knew that I had killed her. I knew that she was dead and I went down on my knees and pulled her on to me".

a long prison term would "not serve justice in this matter."

Ja it would.
 
I know this is a bit of buzz word often used atm, but imo, this whole trial, from beginning to end, is a serious case of 'gaslighting'.

All the witnesses were mistaken, they didn't hear what they heard, they didn't see what they saw. Roux and Masipa agreed, the witnesses were not dishonest (oh, so kind), they were MISTAKEN.

OP's description of Reeva's actions that night reveals she didn't behave in a 'normal' manner and it's to be believed, she was silent...... yet noisy, flinging open the window, slamming the toilet door and locking it, causing OP to go into combat mode. She did not speak a word.

OP can scream like a woman without ever proving it! The ear witnesses only heard OP that night, all the shouting, screaming was him, but ABSOLUTELY NO arguing! Gaslighting at its finest!

OP explains his need to cover the amplifier's LED light yet it never bothered him before. One minute he's as blind a bat because of the darkness, next he's got the eyes of cat.

Cricket bats sound like gunshots, gunshots sound like cricket bats. For some reason, the scenario can't be reenacted convincingly, stomach content tests are not an exact science, 1 + 1 = 3.

OP was extremely security conscious but alarms not activated, ladder up against the wall, broken window downstairs, slept with balcony doors open, but remember, he lives in fear of his life!

OP convinces the court guns go off without pulling the trigger or with any intent. He's the only person capable of such a feat.
OP convinces the witnesses and the court after the fact, that he tried in vain to bring Reeva back to life. He cried a river and the court believed it.

Phones disappear and reappear, a gold watch disappears, Reeva's handbag is removed from the crime scene, no questions asked. But was it a crime scene? Of course not, we're mistaken, it was a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

The ammunition found in the safe belonged to OP's estranged father, this is perfectly normal, he had NO other reason to possess it, believe it or else!
The timeline drawn up by Roux is the correct one, no matter how skewed or confusing. Believe it, I say!

Masipa described OP as a poor witness, an evasive witness, but at the same time, she believed every word he spluttered. Being untruthful doesn't mean he's guilty. He's rewarded for it by a short sentence because he's a fallen hero, why should the truth get in the way.

OP is a magnificent athlete who overcame his disability, a womanizer, party goer, gun lover, who has never considered himself disabled, no wait, scratch that, we're mistaken. He's a vulnerable, anxiety ridden, disabled lost little boy. Shame on us buying his lifestyle for all those years prior to the death of Reeva or while he was out on bail.

Frank, the manservant, who lives on the premises and was there that night, but we have to pretend he doesn't exist?! Frank who?

Masipa describes OP as a fallen hero, like something you'd read in a tabloid magazine, pretty disgusting imo. She's attempting to gaslight the Steenkamps, the people of SA and interested parties that OP is the victim and Reeva the cause of all his woes!!!
Mr and Mrs Steenkamp overlooked again, misquoted, under represented by Masipa and using their grief to relieve OP of his guilt.

I sincerely hope this does not end here. Masipa can't have the last word.

JMO
 
I know this is a bit of buzz word often used atm, but imo, this whole trial, from beginning to end, is a serious case of 'gaslighting'.

All the witnesses were mistaken, they didn't hear what they heard, they didn't see what they saw. Roux and Masipa agreed, the witnesses were not dishonest (oh, so kind), they were MISTAKEN.

OP's description of Reeva's actions that night reveals she didn't behave in a 'normal' manner and it's to be believed, she was silent...... yet noisy, flinging open the window, slamming the toilet door and locking it, causing OP to go into combat mode. She did not speak a word.

OP can scream like a woman without ever proving it! The ear witnesses only heard OP that night, all the shouting, screaming was him, but ABSOLUTELY NO arguing! Gaslighting at its finest!

OP explains his need to cover the amplifier's LED light yet it never bothered him before. One minute he's as blind a bat because of the darkness, next he's got the eyes of cat.

Cricket bats sound like gunshots, gunshots sound like cricket bats. For some reason, the scenario can't be reenacted convincingly, stomach content tests are not an exact science, 1 + 1 = 3.

OP was extremely security conscious but alarms not activated, ladder up against the wall, broken window downstairs, slept with balcony doors open, but remember, he lives in fear of his life!

OP convinces the court guns go off without pulling the trigger or with any intent. He's the only person capable of such a feat.
OP convinces the witnesses and the court after the fact, that he tried in vain to bring Reeva back to life. He cried a river and the court believed it.

Phones disappear and reappear, a gold watch disappears, Reeva's handbag is removed from the crime scene, no questions asked. But was it a crime scene? Of course not, we're mistaken, it was a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

The ammunition found in the safe belonged to OP's estranged father, this is perfectly normal, he had NO other reason to possess it, believe it or else!
The timeline drawn up by Roux is the correct one, no matter how skewed or confusing. Believe it, I say!

Masipa described OP as a poor witness, an evasive witness, but at the same time, she believed every word he spluttered. Being untruthful doesn't mean he's guilty. He's rewarded for it by a short sentence because he's a fallen hero, why should the truth get in the way.

OP is a magnificent athlete who overcame his disability, a womanizer, party goer, gun lover, who has never considered himself disabled, no wait, scratch that, we're mistaken. He's a vulnerable, anxiety ridden, disabled lost little boy. Shame on us buying his lifestyle for all those years prior to the death of Reeva or while he was out on bail.

Frank, the manservant, who lives on the premises and was there that night, but we have to pretend he doesn't exist?! Frank who?

Masipa describes OP as a fallen hero, like something you'd read in a tabloid magazine, pretty disgusting imo. She's attempting to gaslight the Steenkamps, the people of SA and interested parties that OP is the victim and Reeva the cause of all his woes!!!
Mr and Mrs Steenkamp overlooked again, misquoted, under represented by Masipa and using their grief to relieve OP of his guilt.

I sincerely hope this does not end here. Masipa can't have the last word.

JMO

Excellent post Prime, but it's making my blood pressure rise as it reminds me of so many things that were just plain wrong with this trial.
 
Because it was found by both courts that Pistorius had been dishonest, he wasn't entitled to a finding of remorse.

You'll remember that the SCA held that he never gave an acceptable explanation for firing.

Interestingly, I discovered earlier that he apologised to the Steenkamps in Court because there's caselaw to the effect that an apology should be made in court in order to qualify as remorse.

I am sure it was done as directed by Barry Roux.

I say, didn't Pistorius have his "office" send the Steenkamps some flowers too? I am sure Masipa counted that as showing remorse as well.
 
BIB: The things Masipa said when sentencing were derogatory IMO and I feel the Steenkamps will find it so much harder, if not impossible, to move on now.

Excellent point. I am still galled that she chose to put words in their mouth (or certainly repurpose them) by saying they had both forgiven Oscar and were prepared to move on. Both Nel and Barry Steenkamp tried very hard to clarify what June had meant by saying "I have forgiven him" in the Christian sense and for her own mental well-being to let go of the negative psychological effects. I wish she had never said it, but I do think it was incumbent upon Masipa to not distort her meaning for the benefit of the accused.

It was pretty clear to me that Barry Steenkamp was not prepared to "forgive" Oscar until he had paid with an appropriate sentence for taking his daughter's life. I certainly did not see any satisfaction or relief on their faces as the left the sentencing court the other day.
 
Marfa, please see para15 at the following link:

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAGPJHC/2016/129.pdf

It's a reference to the 2004 SCA case of S v Swart and states that serious crimes will usually require retribution and deterrence to take precedence over rehabilitation.

Thanks, Sherbet. I recall seeing that earlier and had a brief moment of optimism about how Masipa's approach to the obviously serious nature of a murder conviction was legally flawed. But that case was from 12 years ago and I keep reading more things about how the SA approach has continued to steer away from retribution-- mercy and Ubuntu seem to be trending lately-- but I think she has clearly failed the victim's family in terms of restorative justice and society in terms of deterrence.

Sometimes I wonder if Judges develop a bit of cumulative guilt after standing in judgment of so many other human beings-- especially if they have strong Christian leanings-- and this might cause them to tip the scales in the direction of leniency and mercy when it is really not warranted (or legislated).

I also wonder what role the overcrowding of prisons plays in a Judge's sentencing-- do they get directives from above that tell them to please consider shorter sentences or non-custodial sentences whenever the offender is not a danger to society??
 
Advocate Paul Hoffman says the 6 year sentence is unduly generous.

I’ve transcribed some of this interview.

“I think it’s quite possible that a different court will take a different approach to it and that on appeal, the prosecution service will be able to persuade the Supreme Court of Appeal that the sentence imposed is shockingly inappropriate and that it ought to be increased.

As far as the public is concerned, what courts are always obliged to take into consideration is that if they give such light sentences that the public is so outraged that it then takes the law into its own hands, a recipe for anarchy is being created.

Theoretically anyway, if somebody can persuade the Constitutional Court that the interests of justice will be served by having yet a further appeal, what comes out of the appeal process could eventually be ventilated in the Constitutional Court.

Those are the avenues that are available. The appeal tribunals that are capable of being approached in a case like this are the full bench of the High Court in Pretoria, the Supreme Court of Appeal in Blomfontein and, if the interests of justice are served by so doing, the Constitutional Court in Blomfontein.

So it’s quite possible that having invested so much effort into this prosecution, the State will feel that it has had too small a return on its investment in the form of so light a sentence and that Gerrie Nel will saddle up again and ride out in an effort to get a bigger sentence than what we’ve seen”.

[video=youtube;FleOlOrTFAo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FleOlOrTFAo[/video]
 
I know this is a bit of buzz word often used atm, but imo, this whole trial, from beginning to end, is a serious case of 'gaslighting'.

All the witnesses were mistaken, they didn't hear what they heard, they didn't see what they saw. Roux and Masipa agreed, the witnesses were not dishonest (oh, so kind), they were MISTAKEN.

OP's description of Reeva's actions that night reveals she didn't behave in a 'normal' manner and it's to be believed, she was silent...... yet noisy, flinging open the window, slamming the toilet door and locking it, causing OP to go into combat mode. She did not speak a word.

OP can scream like a woman without ever proving it! The ear witnesses only heard OP that night, all the shouting, screaming was him, but ABSOLUTELY NO arguing! Gaslighting at its finest!

OP explains his need to cover the amplifier's LED light yet it never bothered him before. One minute he's as blind a bat because of the darkness, next he's got the eyes of cat.

Cricket bats sound like gunshots, gunshots sound like cricket bats. For some reason, the scenario can't be reenacted convincingly, stomach content tests are not an exact science, 1 + 1 = 3.

OP was extremely security conscious but alarms not activated, ladder up against the wall, broken window downstairs, slept with balcony doors open, but remember, he lives in fear of his life!

OP convinces the court guns go off without pulling the trigger or with any intent. He's the only person capable of such a feat.
OP convinces the witnesses and the court after the fact, that he tried in vain to bring Reeva back to life. He cried a river and the court believed it.

Phones disappear and reappear, a gold watch disappears, Reeva's handbag is removed from the crime scene, no questions asked. But was it a crime scene? Of course not, we're mistaken, it was a tragedy of Shakespearean proportions.

The ammunition found in the safe belonged to OP's estranged father, this is perfectly normal, he had NO other reason to possess it, believe it or else!
The timeline drawn up by Roux is the correct one, no matter how skewed or confusing. Believe it, I say!

Masipa described OP as a poor witness, an evasive witness, but at the same time, she believed every word he spluttered. Being untruthful doesn't mean he's guilty. He's rewarded for it by a short sentence because he's a fallen hero, why should the truth get in the way.

OP is a magnificent athlete who overcame his disability, a womanizer, party goer, gun lover, who has never considered himself disabled, no wait, scratch that, we're mistaken. He's a vulnerable, anxiety ridden, disabled lost little boy. Shame on us buying his lifestyle for all those years prior to the death of Reeva or while he was out on bail.

Frank, the manservant, who lives on the premises and was there that night, but we have to pretend he doesn't exist?! Frank who?

Masipa describes OP as a fallen hero, like something you'd read in a tabloid magazine, pretty disgusting imo. She's attempting to gaslight the Steenkamps, the people of SA and interested parties that OP is the victim and Reeva the cause of all his woes!!!
Mr and Mrs Steenkamp overlooked again, misquoted, under represented by Masipa and using their grief to relieve OP of his guilt.

I sincerely hope this does not end here. Masipa can't have the last word.

JMO
:yourock:

Brilliant!
 
Excellent point. I am still galled that she chose to put words in their mouth (or certainly repurpose them) by saying they had both forgiven Oscar and were prepared to move on. Both Nel and Barry Steenkamp tried very hard to clarify what June had meant by saying "I have forgiven him" in the Christian sense and for her own mental well-being to let go of the negative psychological effects. I wish she had never said it, but I do think it was incumbent upon Masipa to not distort her meaning for the benefit of the accused.

It was pretty clear to me that Barry Steenkamp was not prepared to "forgive" Oscar until he had paid with an appropriate sentence for taking his daughter's life. I certainly did not see any satisfaction or relief on their faces as the left the sentencing court the other day.

How can anyone so insensitive be a judge FFS.
 
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