Out of place items in Ramsey home

[SunnieRN]

One more item. The hemp tape in JAR's room. Was it always kept there?

 

[DeeDee249]

I have often wondered if JB was even there earlier in the morning, or if John brought her there when he did his disappearing act. He was gone for an hour or more. Plenty of time to have moved her body. He also was showing increased agitation when he returned. Then there is the comment Melinda's than boyfriend, now husband made.

That's been discussed a lot. But the problem I have with it is the state of the body when found. The livor patterns and the way the body was fixed in rigor indicate she was placed on her back and LEFT that way within 15-20 minutes (give or take) of her death. Had she been somewhere else, it would be evident UNLESS she was lying on her back wherever she was. Some people mention the walk-in fridge. Cold will delay rigor, placing her death occurring even EARLIER than what we believe, pretty much as soon as they got home. Of course, it would also have lowered her core body temp even lower. However as the coroner neglected to TAKE the core body temperature, there would be no way to determine if she had been "chilled" before being placed in the WC. However, her tissues WOULD have indicated if she had been in a freezer. And they did not have a walk-in freezer. She'd have had to be more folded up to have been placed in the freezer first. And she'd have stayed that way.

 

[SunnieRN]

I was thinking more of the garage or outside DeeDee, but truly have no true idea.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I have often wondered if JB was even there earlier in the morning, or if John brought her there when he did his disappearing act. He was gone for an hour or more. Plenty of time to have moved her body. He also was showing increased agitation when he returned. Then there is the comment Melinda's than boyfriend, now husband made.

Yeah, and I've wondered if that's when some of the "staging within staging" took place...after he'd sat there and had time to ponder what had been done before and realized that things weren't going to go as planned...so on to Plan B.

 

[SunnieRN]

I never even thought of that possibility MTM, but that certainly sounds plausible!

 

[otg]

That's been discussed a lot. But the problem I have with it is the state of the body when found. The livor patterns and the way the body was fixed in rigor indicate she was placed on her back and LEFT that way within 15-20 minutes (give or take) of her death. Had she been somewhere else, it would be evident UNLESS she was lying on her back wherever she was. Some people mention the walk-in fridge. Cold will delay rigor, placing her death occurring even EARLIER than what we believe, pretty much as soon as they got home. Of course, it would also have lowered her core body temp even lower. However as the coroner neglected to TAKE the core body temperature, there would be no way to determine if she had been "chilled" before being placed in the WC. However, her tissues WOULD have indicated if she had been in a freezer. And they did not have a walk-in freezer. She'd have had to be more folded up to have been placed in the freezer first. And she'd have stayed that way.

I think, DD, this is the freezer:
http://www.acandyrose.com/lkitchenbestFS.jpg

But then, it is in the kitchen, and I think if her body was taken out of there and down to the basement after BPD arrived, even Linda A. might have noticed that.

(Edit to add: I don't think it is a "walk-in", it's not deep enough. People speculated about it being a walk-in simply because of the appearance of the door.)
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[SunnieRN]

I don't think her body was refrigerated, except possibly by natural forces. I honestly wonder if they had JB in the garage, to later bring dispose of her somewhere outside their home. Somewhere that could lay suspicion on outsiders being involved. I don't think they expected BPD to stay at the house. The strange thing is, that they may have left sooner, barring the arrival of an army of R friends.

 

[otg]

I don't think her body was refrigerated, except possibly by natural forces. I honestly wonder if they had JB in the garage, to later bring dispose of her somewhere outside their home. Somewhere that could lay suspicion on outsiders being involved. I don't think they expected BPD to stay at the house. The strange thing is, that they may have left sooner, barring the arrival of an army of R friends.

(bbm)

I agree , Sunnie. That's (I think) why John went into Plan-B and "discovered" the body at the first opportunity.
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[my_tee_mouse]

(bbm)

I agree , Sunnie. That's (I think) why John went into Plan-B and "discovered" the body at the first opportunity.
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Yep. They probably expected LE to show up, take a report, ask if they'd checked the house thoroughly ("but of course, officers!") and fly out of the house to look for the child.

 

[SunnieRN]

Otg, I was almost afraid to open your picture link. ;-). But thank you very much. I have never seen that angle of the kitchen before this.

 

[DeeDee249]

I think, DD, this is the freezer:
http://www.acandyrose.com/lkitchenbestFS.jpg

But then, it is in the kitchen, and I think if her body was taken out of there and down to the basement after BPD arrived, even Linda A. might have noticed that.

(Edit to add: I don't think it is a "walk-in", it's not deep enough. People speculated about it being a walk-in simply because of the appearance of the door.)
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That's a walk-in fridge, not a freezer. There was a chest freezer in the basement, but not big enough to lay her out flat on her back inside it. And what I said before still holds- unless there was enough room on a shelf or the floor of it, her body would show signs- double livor patterns, and rigor indicating she was in a position other than flat on her back. And again- it places her death even earlier than the approx date of around midnight, as the cold will delay the formation of rigor.

 

[Toltec]

I have often wondered if JB was even there earlier in the morning, or if John brought her there when he did his disappearing act. He was gone for an hour or more. Plenty of time to have moved her body. He also was showing increased agitation when he returned. Then there is the comment Melinda's than boyfriend, now husband made.

It was Stewart who told Detective Steve Thomas that John discovered JonBenet at 11:00.

What bothers me is that Stewart Long took the initiative and called Steve Thomas....as in maybe Stewart was suspicious about his future in-laws.

 

[Agatha_C]

Toltec,

I thought that very same thing. Why would he call ST and say that? Was his conscience getting to him? What excuse was given for that do you know?

 

[SunnieRN]

Toltec,

I thought that very same thing. Why would he call ST and say that? Was his conscience getting to him? What excuse was given for that do you know?

I wonder if anyone has ever asked him. Does anyone know how close John and the Longs are? How about Burke?

 

[Agatha_C]

Sunni,

I know that they don't live anywhere near each other, so how close they are on a personal level, I don't know.

 

[SunnieRN]

It seems to me Stewart Long was the one person who tried to do the right thing.

 

[Agatha_C]

I know Sunni,

How did the R's explain it to both SL and LE? So many things just don't make sense. Just how much does SL know? Have any of these people been requestioned lately?

 

[SunnieRN]

If they haven't been, they should be!

 

[Toltec]

I know Sunni,

How did the R's explain it to both SL and LE? So many things just don't make sense. Just how much does SL know? Have any of these people been requestioned lately?

It just burns me up that Tom Haney never bothered to ask John about Stewarts phone call, and that Stewart recalled John saying he found his daughter at 11am. Another missed opportunity.

Has anyone ever wondered about the 911 call in which Burke is heard saying "What did you find?".

One interview has Burke being asked...do you know how your sister died? He responds..."I asked my Dad where did you find her?"

What did you find? Where did you find her? Had Burke known JonBenet was already dead before Police showed up?

 

[otg]

It just burns me up that Tom Haney never bothered to ask John about Stewarts phone call, and that Stewart recalled John saying he found his daughter at 11am. Another missed opportunity.

Has anyone ever wondered about the 911 call in which Burke is heard saying "What did you find?".

One interview has Burke being asked...do you know how your sister died? He responds..."I asked my Dad where did you find her?"

What did you find? Where did you find her? Had Burke known JonBenet was already dead before Police showed up?

I often wonder about that whole dynamic there, between Stewart, Melinda, and JR. Stewart supposedly approached Steve Thomas with the information he had about what JR had said, which called into question JR's story to BPD. And yet, Melinda went ahead and married him after giving information that adds to the suspicion of her father and step-mother? (I wonder how happy those family gatherings are.)

Also, on the Burke voice on 911-call thing... Imagine this possibility:

Burke is awake and in the room at the time of the call. The beginning of the call is PR explaining to BR what she's doing ("Hun, we need a... POLICE!) before she realizes the call has been answered. So then BR is there during the entire call with JR making certain he doesn't speak, until PR hangs up (or thinks she does). Then he thinks it's okay to say something so he asks about the ransom note thing he heard his mother mention on the phone, which was news to him ("What did you find."). And then of course the rest of it, "We're not speaking to you." "But what DID you find?"

At least that's my take on it. All - JMHO.
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