PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #5

[sadnpod]

SnoopJohnB.. so where do you go if you assume Kortne was there when CP left? Great questions concerning the lock or unlocked door. Ive assumed CP left it unlocked, which, to me means it was unlocked when he went to leave and unlocked when WS arrived. If there is any truth to the rumors of KS wanting protection, this seems a strange thing for a friend to do. IF the door was locked when he went to leave, then I would assume he would have left it locked. So, CP.. how about steppin in here and answering a few questions.. was the door locked or unlocked when you left? WHo was at the Bar with you and Kortne that night? Where was her car? How did the two of you end up at her place? TIA!

 

[MissSeptember]

Another odd thing is that numerous new reports said that she left the bar to head home with three men. Perhaps that was not the case, but that was reported more than once. In this news article http://www.abc27.com/story/19309331...s-car-following-kortne-stouffer-disappearance it says, referring to MR, That was the last time he said he saw the now missing 21-year-old, still in the car with others.

"with others". That is a strange use of the English language if it was just her and CP. Others would imply more than one other person.

In addition to how did the car get back to KS's, was there a third person and maybe a third person's girlfriend in the group and how did they get home?

It's weird that you say that, there was a mention of someone (can't spell the name i don't think) AB. Is it possible that AB and CP were in the car? I just thought of yet another of my hundreds of theories. What if MR really did go home and CP and AB are the ones that were in K's apartment, which is what caused the noise. Maybe AB went off with K somewhere to harm her, and CP stayed behind and is covering because he's afraid to talk. Has anyone else thought about this possibility?

 

[MissSeptember]

I know alot of people are starting to speculate that she may be alive, and I might be thinking negatively, but to me it doesn't seem like the case. I know it happens, but given the fact that she probably didn't have a whole lot of money, left everything behind, i really highly doubt that she left willingly. This might be one of those cases where the truth won't come out at all, or it might take years.

 

[nothingnew]

Here is the one thing I'd really like to know. When CP left, was the door locked or was it unlocked and did he lock the door when he left? If that could be answered, that might tell you some things. According to WS here: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/09/ijvm.01.html ...The door was unlocked, which was very unusual. Kortne would keep her door locked...

So if CP got up, and the door was unlocked, something probably had already happened. If the door was locked, and he locked it behind him, and WS found the door unlocked the next day, doesn't that tell you that whatever happened happened after 7:30? That KS was still there, moved to another room to sleep?

I have not seen this discussed anywhere. The door was unlocked, but who unlocked it?

Maybe it has to do with the removal of her underage boyfriends dog from the apartment? If boyfriend was in jail from Saturday night and throughout the weekend and KS' mom went to apartment Monday morning and there was just Kortne's dog alone then when did anyone have a chance to remove the other dog? just curious

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Maybe it has to do with the removal of her underage boyfriends dog from the apartment? If boyfriend was in jail from Saturday night and throughout the weekend and KS' mom went to apartment Monday morning and there was just Kortne's dog alone then when did anyone have a chance to remove the other dog? just curious

I have wondered that too? Between how her car ended up at that apartment and when and how there was opportunity for someone to pick up that dog, are the two most unanswered questions in the case. Also, as to whomever picked up that dog, couldn't they have possibly contaminated the crime scene or maybe even cleaned it up? And why would anyone assume that Kortne was not capable of taking care of the two dogs, unless they may have had some prior knowledge that she was missing or not available to take care of the dogs? Also, how did they gain entry into the apartment, was it unlocked, or did they have a key? If we know that the door was unlocked when WS arrived at the apartment on Monday, couldn't it be possible that it was left unlocked by whoever picked up that dog instead of CP?

 

[SnoopJohnB]

SnoopJohnB.. so where do you go if you assume Kortne was there when CP left?

Where do you go? I'm not sure. Assuming that K came to harm while CP was there, then that means that K came to harm with a protective house guest, a couple of police visits just hours before, at an ungodly hour of the morning, with neighbors already on edge and complaining about noise. How "lucky" would an assailant need be to navigate through all of that, knowingly or unknowingly? I'd start looking at Sunday morning 7:15 on and thinking about a window of time while someone would still be sleeping after a long night and before they would wake up and start answering phone messages or texts. Were the neighbors at home or at church, perhaps? Would they have had the ability to notice any cars that visited during this time period. Outside the immediate cast of characters, can you verify where some potentially interested parties might have been during that time period? I would just expand the window of opportunity as a possibility and when questioning people, ask if they can verify where they were and what they were doing during that time period as well.

I think it was after WS found that K wasn't there that the BF's father was contacted to get the other dog.

 

[aszhsh]

I disagree that if they were going to charge her they would of that night. They did not charge the minors for underage drinking until a atleast a week later. Regardless of if they "would of" or "should of" charged her that night, I think we can all agree she most likely thought charges could still be coming.

Even though I have been active in posting alternate theories (the fact she may have walked away) it does not mean that I believe this to be the case. I am simply trying to look at it from other angles. To investigate any case you need to not have a predetermined outcome. Blinders off, consider all theories etc. It is obvious that many of us put a lot of time and thought into this case. Deep down inside most of us have what we think happened. Now reread the articles, look at fb post and even go back through previous websleuth threads and reread it all AND ASSUME THAT CP, MR, NEIGHBORS NOT GUILTY OF HER DISAPPEARANCE. Where does that lead you?? many times once you know the outcome, you look back and wonder why didn't I see that, the info was there. It is because you had a theory and were trying to make the info fit instead of taking the info and seeing where it leads you.

Please post your thoughts after looking at case again....there are some really good people with great minds on this site. I look forward to reading what others come up with. If nothing more it keeps the thread active. And in my mind that is our way of saying Kortne we have not forgotten about you!!

 

[Meri]

SnoopJohnB.. so where do you go if you assume Kortne was there when CP left? Great questions concerning the lock or unlocked door. Ive assumed CP left it unlocked, which, to me means it was unlocked when he went to leave and unlocked when WS arrived. If there is any truth to the rumors of KS wanting protection, this seems a strange thing for a friend to do. IF the door was locked when he went to leave, then I would assume he would have left it locked. So, CP.. how about steppin in here and answering a few questions.. was the door locked or unlocked when you left? WHo was at the Bar with you and Kortne that night? Where was her car? How did the two of you end up at her place? TIA!

I also would like to ask him, if he thought Kortne was in the other bedroom asleep, then why did he leave, directly go to a store and from there text her asking her what happened to her the previous night? That doesn't even make sense to me. Seems he would have at least given it a couple hours since - you know - he thought she was asleep in the other room. And if she was asleep in the other room, why not just poke your head in and ask her then? And, by the way - what does he mean by "what happened to you"?

 

[LivingJuicy]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html

IMO, this is one of the most descriptive and detailed articles about the events leading up to her disappearance.

Also, it's been a bit since I've been really active here but for anyone new that hasn't read or disected this angle -


<modsnip>

Although Palmrya Borough police released no new information Wednesday, yellow police tape barred the door of 21-year-old Kortne Stouffers second-floor apartment at 810 W. Main St. and her car was impounded by a Lebanon County detective. Lebanon County District Attorney Dave Arnold said his office and the county detectives are assisting borough police in the investigation, although it still has not been determined if a crime has taken place.

<modsnip>

Todd Saksek, who owns the house adjoining Stouffers apartment, said he did not know the young woman well and did not hear any disturbance on Sunday morning. "Im just praying that everything turns out all right," he said.

<modnsip>

Information can be left with the Palmyra police by calling 717-838-8189 or by emailing Kortneinfo@gmail.com.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21212616


What was interesting about that was how he claimed to not have any knowledge of the disturbance yet, he was involved in the disturbance and per other MSM reports, the other neighbors also listed in MSM saw Kortne strike him.

Just weird.

 

[StormyNights]

I have tried to read as much as this thread as I can. I have skipped over a few so forgive me if this has already been asked/talked about! Does anyone know if the neighbor downstairs had ANY ties to LE? Like a relative or friend that may have been on the department? I am sure you can guess where my thoughts are headed with this. I am just not understanding how a young lady can simply *poof* vanish in between these calls to the police, if that is indeed what has happened. IMO, people who are scratching their heads and thinking "cover up" may be on the right road! MOO! :moo:

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

I also would like to ask him, if he thought Kortne was in the other bedroom asleep, then why did he leave, directly go to a store and from there text her asking her what happened to her the previous night? That doesn't even make sense to me. Seems he would have at least given it a couple hours since - you know - he thought she was asleep in the other room. And if she was asleep in the other room, why not just poke your head in and ask her then? And, by the way - what does he mean by "what happened to you"?

That has always bothered me. It's just not a normal way of asking something if you believe that maybe she was in another room asleep. If he had said, where are you? I would be more comfortable with that statement as opposed to what happened to you?

 

[Carolyn H.]

I also would like to ask him, if he thought Kortne was in the other bedroom asleep, then why did he leave, directly go to a store and from there text her asking her what happened to her the previous night? That doesn't even make sense to me. Seems he would have at least given it a couple hours since - you know - he thought she was asleep in the other room. And if she was asleep in the other room, why not just poke your head in and ask her then? And, by the way - what does he mean by "what happened to you"?

This has always bothered me a bit, too. Still, depending on how you have your phone set up, the text message likely wouldn't have disturbed her sleep (assuming she was still in the apartment). She simply would have seen it whenever she woke up.

The way I've heard this message recounted was simply as "what happened?" not as "what happened to you?" The difference is slight but seems important to me. If he thought she was asleep in the other room, why would you ask someone "what happened?" But if you knew she was going somewhere or meeting someone and had stepped outside to confront someone, then "what happened" can be seen as a request to tell him what happened during that particular incident that he wasn't in on.

If the text message was "what happened to you?" then that seems as though he knew she was not in the apartment when he left and was trying to find out where she was (and all of this, of course, assumes that the story we have gotten from CP is true and up front).

 

[nothingnew]

I have wondered that too? Between how her car ended up at that apartment and when and how there was opportunity for someone to pick up that dog, are the two most unanswered questions in the case. Also, as to whomever picked up that dog, couldn't they have possibly contaminated the crime scene or maybe even cleaned it up? And why would anyone assume that Kortne was not capable of taking care of the two dogs, unless they may have had some prior knowledge that she was missing or not available to take care of the dogs? Also, how did they gain entry into the apartment, was it unlocked, or did they have a key? If we know that the door was unlocked when WS arrived at the apartment on Monday, couldn't it be possible that it was left unlocked by whoever picked up that dog instead of CP?

Yep, the whole dog issue has never really been cleared up officially for me. I *think* it was the parent of the jailed boyfriend that picked up the dog because son was locked up for violating probation and drinking alcohol provided by an adult.
My other questions are:
1. has it been confirmed that KS and boyfriend were the only ones living in the apartment?
2. did KS have any neighbors that she did hang out with? Not the next door ones or CP/M? but within a couple of blocks?

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

This has always bothered me a bit, too. Still, depending on how you have your phone set up, the text message likely wouldn't have disturbed her sleep (assuming she was still in the apartment). She simply would have seen it whenever she woke up.

The way I've heard this message recounted was simply as "what happened?" not as "what happened to you?" The difference is slight but seems important to me. If he thought she was asleep in the other room, why would you ask someone "what happened?" But if you knew she was going somewhere or meeting someone and had stepped outside to confront someone, then "what happened" can be seen as a request to tell him what happened during that particular incident that he wasn't in on.

If the text message was "what happened to you?" then that seems as though he knew she was not in the apartment when he left and was trying to find out where she was (and all of this, of course, assumes that the story we have gotten from CP is true and up front).

Here's a link to an MSM article that reports what CP's comments were in the text he sent to Kortne. "I left, I didn't see you. What happened to you?"

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_21275447

Great observations regarding statement analysis. I never considered that CP asked the question the way he did because she was possibly involved in a particular incident that he wasn't a part of.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Regarding the text message, I do not think that WS quoted it verbatim and probably did not get recite the exact text of the message.

In this news article here http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html, SS discusses the text, states that he read it, adds information not reported previously (CP said he would see her later) and doesn't give any indication that he thought the text was suspicious.

snip...Stouffer said he has read the text &#8212; Kortne&#8217;s cellphone was left behind &#8212; which told Kortne he couldn&#8217;t find her after he awoke and would see her later...snip

I doubt (and SS's comments above seem to indicate) that the exact word for word complete text has ever been provided, so just me personally, I don't get hung up on the odd phrasing that WS used once when discussing the text.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

Regarding the text message, I do not think that WS quoted it verbatim and probably did not get recite the exact text of the message.

In this news article here http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/08/kortne_stouffer_disappeared_am.html, SS discusses the text, states that he read it, adds information not reported previously (CP said he would see her later) and doesn't give any indication that he thought the text was suspicious.

snip...Stouffer said he has read the text — Kortne’s cellphone was left behind — which told Kortne he couldn’t find her after he awoke and would see her later...snip

I doubt (and SS's comments above seem to indicate) that the exact word for word complete text has ever been provided, so just me personally, I don't get hung up on the odd phrasing that WS used once when discussing the text.

You could be right, but here's another MSM article that repeats the same verbiage coming from WS again. So, with that in mind, I have to consider this may be the closest we get as to what exactly was said in that that text message. Above SS is paraphrasing, he isn't even attempting to allude to the exact verbiage which I feel personally is far less accurate than two other articles repeating what seems to be more of a direct verbatim regarding the text. JMO

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/09/ijvm.01.html

 

[demonwarrior]

BloodHound
The picture I am referring to, she is wearing what looks like a seductive police uniform. Aviator sunglasses, tie, short skirt, belt with handcuffs on them and what appears to be a garter belt. I find it really strange that this person has the photo as their profile pic. If you look at KS fb page and scroll through her friends it isn't hard to find. It also doesn't appear that many of her friends have any sort of pics of her or missing posters of her on their pages or set as their profiles like they did immediately following her disappearance. Strange....

 

[cluciano63]

Actually, not many of Kortne's FB "friends" had her missing poster as their photo even at the start. I posted about this several times, as it seemed strange to me.

I doubt very much she was out and about this Halloween wearing any sort of a costume and having her picture taken.

 

[BloodHoundSleuther]

BloodHound
The picture I am referring to, she is wearing what looks like a seductive police uniform. Aviator sunglasses, tie, short skirt, belt with handcuffs on them and what appears to be a garter belt. I find it really strange that this person has the photo as their profile pic. If you look at KS fb page and scroll through her friends it isn't hard to find. It also doesn't appear that many of her friends have any sort of pics of her or missing posters of her on their pages or set as their profiles like they did immediately following her disappearance. Strange....

I found it and yes, it looks very much like her, hard to say if it's older or not, but I quickly saved the pic and will send it off to the tips line just to be sure. This could potentially be huge, if you notice she has dreds in her hair and that is a more recent change in her appearance. In the older halloween pics, there are no dreads. Impressive find and funny too because I just looked through all of her friends profile pics yesterday and did not see this. I have no clue why someone would post this as their profile pic, very bizarre. It really does look like her and the dreads are even more proof that it could be.

 

[LivingJuicy]

BloodHound
The picture I am referring to, she is wearing what looks like a seductive police uniform. Aviator sunglasses, tie, short skirt, belt with handcuffs on them and what appears to be a garter belt. I find it really strange that this person has the photo as their profile pic. If you look at KS fb page and scroll through her friends it isn't hard to find. It also doesn't appear that many of her friends have any sort of pics of her or missing posters of her on their pages or set as their profiles like they did immediately following her disappearance. Strange....

Hi Demon,

I believe that picture is from Halloween 2010. If you go to Kortne's personal FB page and look at her pictures, specifically her profile pictures, she is dressed as a seductive cop and the date is 2010.

Now, off to see who has it as their pic!